Grass Roots / Class C Proposal

[Horton]

Grass Roots / Class C Proposal

The purpose of this proposal is to make new skiers feel welcome the first few times they attend a USA Water Ski event. The unfortunate truth is that many first time skiers are intimidated by their first experience at a USA Water Ski tournament. If you do not believe me, go to a non-USAWS event and ask around about why they do not participate in USA Water Ski.

 

New skiers are put off by the follow circumstances.

· Skiing in the same group as much more advanced skiers

 

· In the case of ability based divisions, skiing in the same class as small children (or really old skiers)

 

· Immediately being asked to work the event. This sounds inconsequential and against the volunteer nature of USAWS but is a real factor.

 

· Lack of organized welcoming

 

· · This is a small thing but being greeted at a first ever event will leave an impression.

 

Solutions

 

· Add class F sanction in addition to the class C sanction to every tournament

 

· · No additional cost

 

· · No substantial additional effort

 

· Announce the inclusion of Grass Roots in the Regional Guide

 

· Schedule the class F rounds to be run at specific times

 

· · Ideally the first class F round should run after the division that finishes closest to lunch

 

· · Asking the new skiers to ski first or last is not welcoming. New skier are less apt to understand the running orders and when to be ready to ski.

 

· Allow a mulligan

 

· Remember that these scores are not going into the national rankings list so this is the one time that leniency is a good idea at a USA Water Ski event

 

 

 

Conclusion

 

· All of the suggestions listed here are meant to sell our sport and organization.

[Horton]

This idea was passed around the tournament organizers meetings this winter. Pretty sure it is not going to revolutionize the sport but hopefully it is a step in the right direction. Seems like it should be a lot easier to host new skiers when a class C is already set up.

[ToddL]

John,

 

Please don't steal CAWSC's ideas... But seriously, you just described EXACTLY what we do at our Class C tournaments. We take it a step further and include a "mini" course division in the "novice" Class F round. We have been thinking about how to take our solution even further. I have surveyed some local slalom course skiers (most novice or not skiing near their max speed) asking, "Why don't you ski at tournaments and what would it take..." The number one reason why they don't participate is often the money to ski time equation. They seek out solutions where they get to ski for about $4/pass or about $30/set. If you figure out how to match that price point, you will attract more newbies to our sport. The newbies do not have the means from day one to invest in private lake access, etc. etc. Thus, we have to make that access available to them while they are still getting hooked into the concept of skiing in competitions. Once they have experienced that competitive aspect of our sport, they will either be hooked and invest further or they won't. However, if they have no ability to become hooked, how will the sport grow for those who could be the next round of new skiers?

[jipster43]

The idea of skiing in a tournament when you have never run a course is a little daunting. Make courses more available to the masses and I'm sure more folks would turn up to tournaments.

 

Also, no one is likely to ever hear about a tournament unless they already know a tournament skier. It seems the word could be spread a little more effectively.

[Ed_Obermeier]

Jipster wrote "The idea of skiing in a tournament when you have never run a course is a little daunting. Make courses more available to the masses and I'm sure more folks would turn up to tournaments..."

 

Amen brother. One of the most basic reasons I started my business was just that, the idea the if you make high quality slalom course products available at reasonable cost to the masses more people will be drawn into the sport growing both the sport itself and the numbers of folks who get interested in competing at some level. The INT League is a good example of just that mind set in action. Having available course access is the key. We continue to work to provide solutions to the access-at-reasonable-cost problem.

 

Just in case someone here didn't know we're out here. End of shamless plug.

 

Ed @ EZ-Slalom.com

 

[ToddL]

I did a small survey of non-competitive slalom skiers a while back. Some basic results:

* Most would drive up to 30 miles to be able to ski

* Nearly half cited time on the water as a significant factor that prevents them from competing

* Significantly more than half listed cost as a factor that prevents them from competing

* Nearly all wanted a "mulligan" during each round

* Most would want to ski 3-4 passes at minimum per round (muligans included)

* Most would be willing to pay about $4-6 per PASS to participate in a tournament

 

If I add all of that up together, I get a Class F event with 4 pass minimum per round and a fee of $16 per round. This is almost like having practice sets at a tournament...

 

I can't predict which would be more attractive:

a) 1 warm-up pass - not scored, then tournament set, mulligan; then if still under4 passes max, a 4th one for fun (not scored) to end the set

b) Off the dock tournament set, mulligan; then if still under4 passes max, continue skiing for fun (not scored) until the 4 pass max is met

 

Two rounds: Class F round 1 at the conclusion of Class C round 1, then short break (maybe do mini-course skiers), then Class F Rd 2, then continue with Class C Rd 2

$30 for Class F

 

We would need a way to migrate the Class F skiers to Class C after so many tournaments... They can't ride that gravy train forever...

Maybe offer first Class C entry to an established Class F skier at a discount ($40) to ease them into the Class C fees...

 

The whole concept is to get them hooked easily, and gently reel them in to competition.

[RioDP]

I am a recreational skier and I can agree that access to the corse has been my biggest problem. Only recently have I met some very nice people that have allowed me some access to a corse. I would like to enter a turny or 2 but not having the ability to practice or even learn the corse has prevented me, I live in an area that is surrounded by private ski lakes. The cost to become a member of a lake will keep people out of the sport.

[Dirt]

@Horton, maybe I missed something. Almost all of the tournaments in our area were full this year. I didn't get into a few. I did not send them in early enough. Where would we find time for new skiers? I am for new skiers. I just don't see why you are making issue of this.

There are numerous lakes around with memberships available. If people want to ski in our area, they can. It is an expensive sport and the answer is not one person subsidizing another.

 

There is a Schnitz article on the true cost of a ski ride. It is very expensive.

[Horton]

@Dirt you are seeing it from NorCal. Down here (Bako and Newberry) only the 3 event tournaments all sold out. USAWS membership is not exactly growing last time I looked and I am sure INT would welcome more skiers. If all the events are booked, have more.

[Dirt]

I understand what you are saying, I just don't think people are going to just "have more" tournaments. It is a lot of work.

[jdarwin]

Horton has shamed me into putting an F class into my June Class C event. I'll do my best to try and bring in some new blood. We used to run several NSL events locally 10 years ago. We had mulligans and 4 pass minimums built into our ability-based events. They were fun but most skiers either quit or moved up to the Class C ranks. Perhaps it is time to visit this again. But to Smart's point, I have a waiting list for my tournaments. I know that is not the case everywhere but finding the time to integrate new skiers into my existing event is going to be a chore.

[Horton]

@Dirt let me say this again. Your events being full means that maybe my idea does not fit up there. Nationally there are a lot of areas that could use new skiers.

 

[Horton]

@jdarwin @Dirt I agree that if you are booked up this may not be a good fit.

I just think that it MAY be smarter to do Grass Roots as part of a Class C than to have a separate event. You will note that I am not talking about the big ELRs. I am talking about what is generally a local event. Give new folks a chance to look at what we are doing. As soon as then get it hopefully they will ski the class C.

[GK]

I would just make the tournaments more FUN and less expensive for all skiers and new skiers should feel more welcome. Give the event a handicapped scoring format that allows skiers of any ability to level to compete and win and new skiers will fit right in.

 

Our state has gone from almost all tournaments being 3 round slalom events with a max of about 35 skiers to about 50% of our events being handicapped scoring where skiers are guaranteed 2 rounds with the chance for 3 or 4 rounds if they "win/advance" out of the first two rounds. I was a little concerned when we started these events that people would complain if they only got 2 rounds, but we've heard very few complaints and we're regularly seeing 40 to 50 skiers at these events including a LOT of new skiers on a regular basis. These events also have a grassroots sanction attached so that a Grassroots membership will get you in the event, it just won't get you on the National Ranking List.

[The_MS]

If someone can figure out a way to make it less expensive to host a tourney, I am all in. The sanction fees and gas will demand a boat load of cash. Add food, ropes and getting officials to the mix$$$$$$

it is an expensive sport

[GK]

It depends what type of event you're holding and what type of support you have from the officials in your area. If you don't have to pay for hotel rooms for officials, then you can easily make money at $40 per skier. (unless you want to argue that the expenses of owning the lake factor in, which no tournament is going to cover.)

[6balls]

I'm w/Dirt, the slalom only tourneys around here are generally full. Maybe novice class tourneys w/out the shortline skiers would work...but who would work them/officiate them. Clubs/sites could do this purely to grow the sport, but if most ballers are anything like me you are busy as snot w/out one more obligation.

I have done a volunteer ski camp a number of years in a row, but it's more introductory (teach kids to get up on skis/wakeboard/barefoot from boom)...not going to mine any buoy skiers from there.

[501Brandon]

I skied with INT from 99 to current... The part that appealed to me was the divisions being ability based and a mulligan. I have probably skied my last INT event as a result of 1 round of slalom at 40$ on a 6 pass max round. I can go to C Class and ski a lot more for the same or less $ given I dont fall. The C Class scare to me several years ago and the reason I found INT was how it seemed very uptight and everyone was extremely serious as if a paycheck depended on how well they did. This year I skied a few C Class events and have found that this part has changed at least locally. Everyone was very friendly and willing to reach out and at least speak I felt welcome at these events. Not to mention how much a guy willing to learn can learn even if hes eavsdropping on the dock. I belong to a club on a private lake with a slalom course and 25 members. We would love to have tournaments at our lake under AWSA and for us the biggest hurdle are the requirements in drivers, judges, safety, etc to conduct the events and be within the guidlines of AWSA.

[lpskier]

The Green Mountain Water Skiers host the Tom Costello / Allen Rossi Memorial Tournament each summer adopting the Horton format. It usually attracts about 10 F skiers. The tournament is usually full a month before the event. The F skiers are warmly welcomed and encouraged. They must really like it because the same F skiers are there each year. I don't think any of them have moved up to the C. Than goes to this tournament too, so maybe he has a different perspective. By the by, it is a great site, great people and Jamie B. and Rossi are usually there all day. It is held in a public park at a public beach, so you do get some random spectators, and the TV news crew is always there at some point. The tournament is just outside of Montpelier, the Vermont state capital.

[Than_Bogan]

Yeah, that VT tournament is awesome. It's really far for me, so this year was actually my first time and it's still going to be rare for me to make it there, but great site, great atmosphere, great attitude, and skiers all the way from course beginners to the best in the world. Not much to complain about!!

 

In truth I'm quite confused about this reputation of class C events as being intimidating and overly serious. I've just never seen that. From my first tournament where I started at 30mph to today where my goal is usually to beat all 34 mph skiers, I've found 95% of skiers to be friendly, welcoming, and encouraging.

 

As far as taking defeat too hard, that was comforting, too. Made me feel a little more sane :).

 

Throughout New England we're seeing full tournaments, a variety of skill levels, frequent new faces, and more kids than I've seen in a long time. I'm not trying to say we can't do better, but I also think it's wrong to be extremely pessimistic about the sport.

 

P.S. I'm not sure I know who lpskier is! Maybe send me a private message to remind/inform me!

[PurdueSkier]

I would just like to point out that "winning" a tournament or the overall tournament format do not have to be directly tied to the standard Class C tournament format that we are all used to. I have participated several times in a team/handicapped scoring tournament. Four skiers from each team compete in the first round of each event. Each person is paired up bracket style to another person/team. Whoever beats their USA waterski average score by the most (or is the closest to their average if under it) advances to the next round. It is head to head until their there is only 1 winner. Often beginner skiers do well because it is easier to be consistant or beat a 1 or 2 ball average than say 2 or 3 at 38 off. Scores from each round our entered into USA Waterski scoring like a normal Class C tournament. Just each round has fewer and fewer skiers. For fun, there is a points based team scoring system. It is one of the most fun and exciting events I have been to. It is a two day tournament with limited entry, because as you can imagine it takes awhile.

[ToddL]

I suspect that this is probably true...

Skiers who don't ski tournaments care about skiing for fun

Class F skiers care the above plus local event competitive participation

Class C skiers care about the above plus AWSA regional/national rankings

Class ELR skiers care about all of the above and national or IWSF rankings

 

The one thing that I didn't think worked for INT was their concept of "nationals." Amateur levels compete locally. Class F events are for the locals. The whole grass roots concept is that the local people are given a means to participate locally without the barriers that are appropriate and necessary for regional/national competitions. Thus, the additional officiating, head tax, etc. are all elements of complexity and cost that are appropriate or necessary at a higher level of event.

 

The opportunity is to make the local amateur structure/rules as lean as possible. Minimal officiating, basic liability, relaxed boat approval spec, etc.

Consider if, for Class F, you use any formerly approved towboat, with an assistant rated driver and a single assistant judge in the boat, scores documented on paper, local winners/awards at the end of the event, etc. The key is to have the cheapest liability solution for minimal cost to hosts/participants. If we didn't have liability and litigation fears, then anyone could/would host their own "tournament" at the local lake for the local skiers using their own local rules, etc. It would be fun...

 

Heck, I'd like to see class C simplify a bit, too. But that is a different conversation...

 

[jdarwin]

Todd - head tax is $2.50 per skier for a Class C in the SCR. No charge for Class F participants. Not a huge expense when compared to other costs associated with hosting an event. That said, the SCR regional sanction fee ($60) applies to any tournament.

[ToddL]

Thanks, Joe.