It happend again....

[Ilivetoski]

Some of you may remember me talking about an RS-1 that I used last season that the inserts came out of it. 6 of the inserts came out to be exact. Last night I was putting my bindings on my 2012 Strada and decided I did not like the way that one of the front screws was lying so when I took off the binding the back right insert decided to come out!!! Again!!! Ski is still under warrenty but any ideas on why this keeps happening???

[gregy]

I had a 2011 stada and never had insert problems. But I never tightened the screws very tight at all. I would tighten them just to the point were they began to snug down to the binding plate and then stop. I never gripped the screw driver, just as tight as I could get them using my fingers on the handle. I checked them at the beginning of every trip to the lake and they usually had loosened some but no problems every with inserts.

[Waternut]

I typically do what @gregy does and then give them another 1/4 turn to make sure they stay. I'll typically check my screws every 20-30 times I ski and if more than 1-2 of them have started loosening, I'll pull them all out and add loctite to the threads.

 

If you've had two ski's that have done this now, what are you doing when you install the screws? Are you using a drill without the clutch setting to install the screws?

[Chef23]

I think you may be over tightening the bindings.

[Horton]

@Ilivetoski

Just call Radar. They will take care of it.

[Jim Neely]

I have the same problem on my Strada. The front two inserts back out when I attempt to loosen the screws. Radar told be to put a little epoxy on the outside of the insert before screwing it back into the ski. That didn't work. I even tried putting some anti-sieze compound on the screws before inserting them. I don't over tighten the screws. Only the front two inserts are backing out.

[eleeski]

Inserts will back out any time the thread resistance between the screw and the insert is more than the breakout force of the insert. Usually the insert can be effectively replaced or reinstalled. Clean the outside of the insert and the hole in the ski with a wax remover (carb cleaner?). Wax a screw, use a jam nut, coat the outside of the insert with epoxy (JB weld!) and screw the insert home. Wait until the epoxy has cured (warm overnight!), hold the jam nut and back out the screw.

 

@Jim_Neeley Your inserts probably got wax on them. Wax makes epoxy release. Clean them well and dremel grind a small notch on the outside of the insert threads. JB weld this insert in and it should hold.

 

Several things can cause this. Most common is corrosion between the insert and the screw - this is prevented by the use of anti sieze. Almost as common is damage to the insert. It is easy to cross thread your screws when installing a binding - especially if the insert/plate alignment is not perfect. Drilling an oversize hole in the plate can correct misalignments and prevent the initial cross threading. Damage to the screws is also very common. There are several causes of screw damage (cross threading, corrosion, scale or just a defective screw). There is an easy solution, inspect all your screws and replace any imperfect ones.

 

Inserts can be damaged - for all the same reasons as the screws. I have repaired inserts in the ski by retapping them with a bottom tap. This cleans out minerals, epoxy, buggered threads and tight tolerances. While this has been quite effective usually for me, rarely this can make the inserts a bit loose. Loose inserts can back out easier, get gummed up with salt or minerals easily and are easier to cross thread. Still they hold the bindings in place effectively. If the insert is too badly damaged, an EZout will back the insert out (completely ruining the insert in the process).

 

If your screws back out too much, use plumbers putty to lock them in. Plumbers putty is pretty sticky and protects threads. Loctite can lock the screws in too much - when you try to remove them the inserts are very likely to back out. Avoid Loctite.

 

Eric

[Ilivetoski]

Whats Radars phone number? Never can find their support number.

[Moskier3ev]

We just do what was said above epoxy on the insert, screw it in, remove screw leave over night. This is not a brand issue it is an insert issue. (beats the heck out of drilling more holes) Our family has something from most manufactures between slalom and trick skis all brands have done it. I just snug my screws down on my slalom and don't have issues with my slalom. My wife tightens hers screws every set, she overtightens my opinion, and her inserts give me a problem when I need to work on her binding. Same MFG of slalom.

 

Jeff Lindsey

[Ed_Obermeier]

Guess I've always been lucky. I crank the binding screws down as much as I can and have never had a problem. I check them with some frequency, if I find any loose (generally the rear screws on the plate if any at all) I crank them back down as much as I can. Never been an issue.

[Chris Rossi]

It has happened to me a couple of times over the years. Most of my problems came from having too much junk down in the insert. This junk can come from lake particles, sand/dirt, salt, or a build up of lock tight inside the insert. Like Eric said above, this causes the screw to insert tension to be greater than the insert to ski break tension. Call the factory and they will help sort you out. 4253696851. I tighten my screws hand tight and check them often. I do not crank them as hard as I can.

[eddie_roberts_jr]

I've had an insert or two back out and I'll usually do what Eric recommends. It wouldn't be a bad idea though to start with new inserts. We'd be glad to send some to you n/c. We also have an oversize/repair insert that requires drilling a slightly bigger hole if all else fails, or if you aren't skiing this Winter you could send the ski to us and we'll fix it up n/c and pay the freight back to you.

[The_MS]

That is why "Radar Rocks". Top notch customer service.

[Waternut]

Agreed! I've asked questions to Radar's tech support and they are very fast and helpful. Thankfully haven't had any kind of warranty work required though.

[Texas6]

First, let me agree completely about Radar's support. I've had to interact with them on a handfull of occasions for minor issues on either of my last two Radar Skis (RS-1 & now Strada). I've been on the Strada for two and a half seasons now so its probably about time for an upgrade to a brighter orange color. Having said that, my existing Gray/Red Strada has laminate beginning to bubble and peel away from the top of the ski (about a 6 inch section). I attribute this to age and considerable use but would like to keep it from getting worse if possible. @Eddie_Roberts_Jr /Chris, any thoughts here? Thx for an awesome product and better support

[Ilivetoski]

@chrisrossi I think it may be overtighting them because if you remember me coming to you at nationals with the RS-1 that had the insert come out. I called radar and they said to go through my dealer... anyway, chris, Brett Hargrave is going to be in KY for the boatshow and said he could fix it so I think I am going to go with that. This was the first time the inserts have been used on this ski (previous owner used interlock) and first time I put it on it decides to come out. Lucky though on timing, I dont care about being without a ski right now i cant use it.

[Texas6]

By the way, just realized my thread jack above. Completely my bad

[BraceMaker]

@horton - maybe they should pick up a "best balls of them all" segment where they publish the spray of the month. Or similar.

[Horton]

@BraceMaker Drunk?

[eddie_roberts_jr]

We could probably fix a slight de-lamination of the top sheet with epoxy and a clamp. Can you send a pic?

[Texas6]

Absolutely can @eddie_roberts_jr. As I said before, it isn't bad but if it gets worse it could make it un-skiable. I'm totally cool with a backyard fix here at the house, just thought I would solicit your input first. If you say Epoxy and a clamp is all it takes, I'll take that action - just wanted to make sure (any recommendations on epoxy?) Many thanks!!

[BraceMaker]

@Horton - surprisingly not. From mobile - was supposed to be waterski mag thread. Which is odd, since I am sure I was reading it as I typed that message.

[Horton]

@BraceMaker that makes more sense. Have a good weekend.

[eddie_roberts_jr]

@Texas6 The good news is that it's just the clear top sheet that's coming up. Not the laminate. You could use superglue to hold it down but get all that dirt out first. What I've done before is to clean it out good then put just enough glue down inside then run masking or duct tape starting from about the middle of the ski and pull it real tight all the way around the ski to hold that section down real good and you shouldn't need to clamp it. Good luck and try an orange one too!

[ToddL]

@Texas6. I have both a 2011 Strada and a 2009 D3 RCX.

My Strada has the same top clear coat issue in several locations. I tried superglue in a syringe to inject it deep into the void and then squeeze out the excess. I had mixed results... Some spots were completely invisible after the repair. Others are still pretty visible. I have a spot in the top, not near the edge. So something must have not been ideal on that mold event... Still skis great, though!

 

The RCX had the insert issue. I was told by someone here to grab a long screw with same threading. Put two nuts on it and run them up a good bit. Then screw the loose insert onto this assembly. Adjust the insert and nuts so that the screw stops flush with the deep end of the insert. Using two small wrenches tighten the two nuts against each other to lock then on the screw at this depth. Now, prep the hole and the insert with epoxy. Mount the whole assembly (insert, nuts, and long screw) into the ski insert hole until the insert is flush with the ski surface. Let the epoxy dry. Then loosen the long screw and remove it with the locked nuts in place. The locked nuts simply make it easier to get the insert fully seated into the old hole. Worked great for me. I kept this assembly in my ski tool box, but haven't had to use it again, yet.

 

After our last tourney, I dusted off the RCX for a ride. Man, I love the offside turn on that ski, but I really missed the speed of the Strada. I had to adjust my approach to match each ski's strengths or shortcomings... That Strada was supposed to have a killer offside turn. I must be just fractions away from an ideal setup, because it is good, but just not quite there. Maybe too the issue is starting with the bindings... as in - the problem stems from the the bindings up! Ha!