Best long line slalom boat?

[Bill22]

What boat is best for -15off and slower speeds (30-32mph)?

 

I am looking to get my first direct drive this year. The boat will be used for slalom skiing 75% of the time and family activities the rest of the time (aka tubing/kneeboarding).

 

I am looking for an open bow, fuel injected, direct drive, 98 – 00 year range, around $12k. I have mostly been looking at the Response Lx, I think the Sportster is too small for me. I read 98 was the first yr with the diamond cut hull and the rear ski locker.

 

I have also been looking at the Supra Legacy. I don’t know if the Legacy had a hot shower as an option in 2000. I have been waiting a long time to upgrade and want to wait for a clean boat with all the good options (PP, heater, shower). I don’t see as many CC in my price range. The MC in my $ range are closed bow, so I quit looking at MC.

 

I am a grassroots slalom skier and have only skied behind a few direct drives. I have only owned an I/O. With so many people wakeboarding I am hoping the price of used slalom boats will come down a little this spring.

 

[boarditup]

Gekko has a very low wake at slow speeds. Really poor for wakeboarding, but at 24 mph a junior skier can get over the wake at speed without getting air. As Gekko is out of business, windshields may be hard to find, but most other parts are off-the-shelf.

[Bill22]

Thanks. If it was a price point boat did they have a carb or EFI?

 

[Horton]

200 hands down best wakes at that level

[Wish]

Legacy is not bad. Very roomy and plush. Not to sure you will like the wakes at slow speed though. Gekko is an option but assuming you want to eventually ski at speed (34-36mph) you may not like the wake. Small yes but feel like little parking lot curbs. Very stiff. Small boat size is relative. The Sportsters open bow's seat is facing the correct way IMO and is deep enough to be safe (don't slolam with anyone up front) for kids. Rest of the boat seams roomy enough. Have not skied long line slow speed but it is a very light boat. That's a tall order to fit your needs. Ideal I would say SN open bow (though shallow) with all your options is the best bet. To me an open bow is overrated and often under used.

[Waternut]

I agree the Ski Nautique's in that year range are fantastic.

 

BTW...finding a boat in your year and price range that has everything you want may be very difficult especially if you're trying to stay within a couple hours of your current location. That said, don't be afraid to work on your boat. Perfect Pass, a heater, and a shower aren't hard to install. So if you can find a clean boat for cheaper that doesn't have those things, you can put them in pretty easily. Plus you'll know how it works if anything ever goes wrong with it.

 

For the record, I used to love the wake on my Dixie Super Skier 299 boat until I rode behind a 98 Nautique. Because that boat's wake was so amazing, I started looking at upgrading my boat or figuring out a way to make my wake better. I ended up buying a hydraulic wakeplate made by Bennett and now my boat ski's very similar to a 98 Nautique...at least at 15 off which is where I'm currently skiing. What I'm getting at here is; even if the boat isn't renowned for having a great wake, a $500 mod can make it have a great wake. Then with a flip of a switch, your great ski wake can be a great trick or wakeboarding wake as well.

[boarditup]

Most Gekkos had EFI Merc engines. A few early models had carbs, that those were rare. Best news, many under $10k on a trailer.

[Waternut]

I can't see an open bow being much use on a slalom ski lake. On public waters when there are more than 3 people in the boat, those open bows get worn out though! Those seats up front are worth their weight in gold to me.

[Bill22]

@jfw432... I know, a boat with all the options and the year I'm looking for are $15k. I knew PP could be added but I did not know a heater or shower could be add by the average joe.

Thanks,

[Bill22]

The Sportsters are in my $ range but many I have seen for sale have a carb. A carb is a deal breaker for me. I am sure some of them have EFI.

 

Yes, one day I hope to be skiing 34mph. I have two friends that get into -28 @ 34mph and I would like to offer them a good wake.

[6balls]

You can get them EFI, but most had the 310 carb. The sportster with the 365 hammerhead is a riot.

[Wish]

Your friends wont like the Gekko if they ski behind new model boats or any of the SN 196 1997 and newer. It would be a wake they would have to "get used to".

[Bill22]

It's not just the smaller beam of the sportster but the shorter freeboard that I think would feel small. I have never been in one, that's why I was asking. I have just read the Response feels a lot bigger.

[Waternut]

@bill22 Not only can you install the heater yourself but I actually built my own heater. Bought a standard heater core from the parts store, built a wood box with pvc outlet holes, and added a computer fan in the back. All hoses, fittings, heater core, fan, etc. cost me a whopping $50-$75. Doesn't look as pretty but it works just the same and you can't see it anyway. I put the extra $300 I saved towards something else for the boat.

[jipster43]

91-94 Mastercraft 190. Not an open bow, but a very small, soft wake at all speeds - and available in your price range.

[jipster43]

Or the same year Prostar 205. All of the above with the added open bow.

[greghayes]

You should also consider a Nautique open bow 1997-2000. They are a little hard to find, but should meet all of your criteria as well. I just sold mine to get a ZO boat, but with PP SG, you get virtually the same pull as the best modern boats. Happy hunting.

[lpskier]

14 foot Boston Whaler with a Johnson 40.

[Bill22]

Thanks everyone for the input.

 

@greghayes I see about, maybe 5 to 1. Five Malibu's for sale to each Nautique for sale.

[h2odawg79]

A Moomba might be a good all purpose option for the $$$. Not sure which has EFI. But, for the $$ saved... This one is $3000 http://boats.oodle.com/detail/1998-moomba-outback-sk-21-21-wake-board/3307297364-altamont-il/?cm_mmc=OODLE_PREVIEW-_-www-_-NA-_-NA

 

 

[lundberg]

That's too cheap. Something is fishy.

[Wish]

Plus it's got huge wakes for slolam and tracks like a bar of soap.

[DW]

@Bill22: is there a specific reason a carbed boat is out of the question?

 

A carbed small block can perform every bit as well as an EFI setup. They do require some maintenance and are a little more finicky on cold starts but are dirt cheap when repairs are required.

[skihacker]

I think you would find way more boats if you could live with a carb. For whatever its worth I've owned 2 carbed boats over the years and never once had to mess with the carbs on either boat, the second one was a 265 hp mercruiser inboard that had 600 hours when I traded it, would give you a lot more options.

[h2odawg79]

@Wish, Agreed on the wakes not being the best. But, we're talking about a Low budget, LONG LINE, All Purpose Boat here. The OutBack would more then serve his purposes.

 

Sorry but, something has to give here: Low Budget, open Bow, all purpose, Long line, limited market availabilty, etc. etc.... Sometimes, Ya just can't have everything and other times maybe ya can

[Wish]

the 98 Outback is the worst of whats been listed here. Its not that it doesn't fit some needs. Its that it doesn't fit most of his needs by a long shot. The Outback was improved with time but not that year. There's one 3 doors down from me. Would not recommend.

[gregy]

Early 90s prostars are hard to beat. I've seen some good deals on some 190s. My 99 response is really good, especially if you have less than half tank of gas and not loaded down. The American Skiers were usually good as well.

[Bulldog]

Stay away from the Outback...

[ToddL]

my ears hurt. that was loud...

[swc5150]

I agree wanting EFI. True, a tuned carb performs great, but it's the "tuned" part that's always been a thorn in my side. Plus, after a long cold winter, I like to drop the boat in the water, snap the key and listen to it fire up immediately. We don't get enough summer in WI to mess around tweaking a carb, and I just don't have the carb know how it would take. I picked up a cheap '91 Prostar as a tug last summer, and it took me about a minute to remember why EFI is awesome.

 

What about an MC Sportstar? Solid EFI motor, and later models were available in open bow. They were entry level at the time, and can be found at a bargain. I prefer the Sportstar to the Prostar (Deathstar) of the era.

[Waternut]

My boat is an 86. I rebuilt the carb because it would load up after idling too long on a hot day. I've never touched the tuning on my carb and I ski when it's 65 or 105 outside. I pump the throttle twice if the boat has been sitting more than a couple days and it fires up immediately every time. I typically have to let it idle for 30-45 seconds before backing it off the lift when it's really hot though. So yes an EFI boat would make life easier but then again, not paying an extra $10k for an EFI boat has made life a lot easier too... Just something to think about.

[jipster43]

I have a '93 Prostar 190 with the 351 HO engine and have never had any issues with my carb. I dropped it in the water last spring and it cranked over immediately. Knock on wood!

[h2odawg79]

Ha! You win @Wish; "One 3 doors down" Trumps anything I got. -I don't think there's even one in my neighborhood...

[Bill22]

The reason I don’t want a Prostar is like @jfw said in post # 8. On public water the bow gets used. On the water I don’t have a lake house, dock or beach. When I am on the water I have to have everything in the boat, cooler, skis, tube, life jackets and people. Two of my friends have Prostars 87 & 91 and I enjoy skiing with them.

 

I am sure there are a ton of great running boats with a carb out there. I just had a bunch of problems with my OLD Mercruiser and some of the problems are not with the carb but it is so frustrating when you’re on the water and your boat will not start. I am not saying an EFI boat is trouble free. I know parts can still fail (fuel pump, computer, sensors & wire harnesses).

 

The good or great news is I have 3 friends that have offered to pull me unitl I am ready to buy. Two with the Prostars and the other has an 2006 MC model # ?? open bow.

 

 

What year did the Outback get better? It is good to get input from skiers that have skied behind & driven these boats. Thanks

 

 

[skihard]

I own a 2006 Outback. I'm not a pro skier by any means - but I am improving. I'm a family man with a teenage daughter. I have skied behind MC and SN getting coaching and while away. As said I'm not a pro but I sure didn't notice that much of a difference in the wakes of the MC and SN vs my Outback at 15 or 22 off?

The boat more than meets our needs and requirements and I believe it would do the same for you? The price is of the boats is right and Moomba (Skiers Choice) has improved the boat a lot over the years!

Advantage is also the amount of boat you're going to get for your money vs the MC & SN.

 

My 2 cents anyways.

[Chef23]

I have an 02 Malibu Response LX and the wake on that boat at slow speeds and long lines isn't too bad. It isn't as good as a new Nautique 200 but it is skiable. My son learned to run the course just fine behind it from 18 mph to 22 off. The Tige supposedly had a pretty good wake back in the late 90s also. Not sure if they are EFI boats or not though.

[h2odawg79]

@Bill22, My thought is; There are so many variables on Boats i.e. Cond, Hrs, (real Hrs!) Standard features, upgrades, used in Salt Water or Fresh Water, location, etc...

 

Then theres the Personal preferances; I own an "All Purpose" Boat for a reason: We need to cover all the Bases. We Ski, Wake Board, -kinda! Tube and simply just hang out. An Open Bow may be "Over Rated" (as posted above) But, cramming everybody and everything around the engine in the back Totally Sucks! (Hmmm, Nope, it's worse then that!)

 

My Wife has a Med. Cond and can NOT step over the "step over" Bow on the LX. In fact, when we do go to one of the Lakes, we have a Sand Beach and my Wife or the In-Laws and others with limited mobility would Not be able to even get in or out of our Boat if it were not for the "over rated" Open Bow.

 

WE have the Response LXI and LOVE it. But, you'll also find some who will whine about it's wake or traking as well... -whatever, I didn't buy MY Boat to Please them! ;-]

 

There are several Members on here who have and enjoy their Moombas. Thx @skihard for speaking up. Quote: "Advantage is also the amount of boat you're going to get for your money vs the MC & SN".

 

Whatever the price, whatever the Manufacturer, do your due diligence and get the Best Boat for YOUR purposes that your Hard earned $$$ can buy!

[Bill22]

@h20dawg79 I agree with you 100%. Each boat owner must evaluate their needs. I am getting as much input and advice as I can to make an informed decision.

 

I know I don’t need the absolute BEST wake at -15off. But I don’t want the worst -15off wake for sure! I would look at a carb boat if it was SUPER clean and had everything else. I know as mentioned above, sometimes you can’t have everything. Time is on my side, I’m in no rush and I would drive up to 10 or 12 hours each way to get the right boat. BTW - I'm in Richmond, VA.

 

@swc5150 I have not seen any of the Sprotstar models for sale. I will need to look for them. If it’s a good MC it must be above my range.

 

@jipster43 I think the MC 205 is out of my range.

[Joeprunc]

I have not a single complaint from anyone behind my 1995 Tige slm2000. We ski at 28-34 mph and 15' off. I also regularly ski behind a 2004 Mastercraft 197 and a 2006 Response LX. They all have slightly different wakes, and after a few sets behind each one a beginner like me cannot tell a difference.

 

Actually our friend with the Response LX use to have a 1997 open bow Tige like mine, 1300 hours when he traded it in...he still wishes that he kept that boat instead of purchasing his new boat.

 

My Tige is a closed bow, but they also made an open bow I believe the 1993-1998 Pre2002 and 1999-2001 20i produced the better ski wakes. In 2002 they got a lot heavier, I'm not sure why. My boat has the older wooded stringer design, but I have never had any issues with mine (no soft spots anywhere). Mine is also a carburated motor, I'm not sure when they switched to the EFI, but in 350 hours I've had one issue of a no start ("Knock on wood") the rotor was worn and needed to be replaced. I switched to an ACME 515 prop, much stronger pull, and running lower rpms at ski speeds.

 

Also as far as a price point I paid $8k with 435 hours...here she is the day I brought her home.

 

Ski wake at 30 mph (3 people in the boat and a full tank of gas)...There is a nice rooster tail at 22 off, but it dies way down at 34 mph. And a newer model with the TAPS plate you can probably trim the rooster tail out of the picture.

[Bill22]

@Joeprunc Thanks, looks nice.

[Wish]

That is a good boat. The yrs you mentioned as good wakes OB and closed matched if not surpassed the big 3 in WSM testing for those yrs. No Wood stingers and carbed engines may be hard to find.

[6balls]

@joeprunc, nice looking boat, great deal on her. I'm sure you are getting serious bang for your buck fun there.

[rodltg2]

Is that the dirty d?

[Joeprunc]

@6balls I definitely think we have gotten our $$ and smiles out of it. Its even more fun now that I finally bit the bullet and installed PP.

@rodltg2 yes it is.

[rodltg2]

@joeprunc you should ski at our ski league this summer.

[Bill22]

On the Tige are the stingers wrapped in fiberglass to keep them dry? Anyone know more about what year they went to no wood.

 

Having wood stingers does not sound too bad if a boat was always garage kept and you can save $3k - $4k.

[Joeprunc]

Yes they are fully wrapped in fiberglass. My boat has never been in a garage, but I do keep a nice cover on it never allowing water to pool, and make sure the bilge is dry after every ski.

 

Charlie Pigeon was a head designer for Mastercraft and didn't believe that composite stringers were superior. When MC started playing with composite stringers, Charlie decided to leave MC. In 1991 he formed his own company, Tiga, (unfortunately the name was already copywrited) and renamed to Tige. I believe Tige kept wooden stringers in their boats until 2003 (I could be wrong). Charlie believed wooded stringers were stronger than the composite stringers (at that time, which can obviously be debated till the moon rises), but people found that wood would deteriorate if neglected.

 

If you do go with a wooded stringer boat there are a few areas to check out: the motor mounts, and check the bilge areas. Also a lot of the floors were fiber glassed wood as well, so check for soft spots. If you find any soft spots I'd pass and go onto the next boat.

[6balls]

I've got two boats, a no wood nautique and a '91 Centurion falcon barefoot with wood floors and stringers. The Centurion has had excellent care, and I have no issues after 21 years--she does great family boat duty. As much as I appreciate the no wood boats of today, if I knew the care well, wood stringers would not scare me off.

[Wish]

No wood for Tige 1998 and forward. EFI engine optoins offered then as well. Many hull tweaks over the yrs. Some good some not so much. Wake plate (powered plate to adjust wake shape) introduced in 1996.

[BraceMaker]

@joeprunc - those early MC composite stringers were pretty harsh, I think they did get them to act more like wood later on, less stiff.