Ease out of the load?

[Horton]

The one thing that had the most impact on my skiing last year was changes to my gate. One of the things I think about is something I have never heard another skier talk about.

 

As I approach the first wake I bring my vision and chin up to start bringing my torso up just a little bit. To get it done it is all about vision.

 

This is not an early edge change thing but is about easing out of the load. It seems like if I have all the load at center line, the edge change is too abrupt and I end up hard on my inside edge way too early. (Trent talks about something like this?)

 

Anyone think this is a bad idea? Further thoughts?

[Sethski]

So, I think this is a tough thing to explain. I like what you have said Horton, but the problem is that sometimes the interpretation of this leads to people giving up power too soon. If you say it works, then there is no reason for any of us to argue. However, I think another good way to describe it is that you have to keep your upper body up and out of the way of your lower body so you can move the lower body slightly ahead somewhere near the centerline in order to have the ski accelerate outbound. The secret is to keep your body pressing through the back arm as you shoot the ski and lower body through and out to the flat water past the wake. If you give up power in an effort to do this, I believe you lose valuable speed and direction. Works great at your easier passes, but when the line gets short you will end up traveling on a path that is too narrow and too direct. However, maybe I am missing exactly hat you are saying. The Acapulco sun may be getting to me...have sympathy for me struggling through the days of skiing down here.

 

Seth Stisher

SethStisher.com

 

[Sethski]

So, I think this is a tough thing to explain. I like what you have said Horton, but the problem is that sometimes the interpretation of this leads to people giving up power too soon. If you say it works, then there is no reason for any of us to argue. However, I think another good way to describe it is that you have to keep your upper body up and out of the way of your lower body so you can move the lower body slightly ahead somewhere near the centerline in order to have the ski accelerate outbound. The secret is to keep your body pressing through the back arm as you shoot the ski and lower body through and out to the flat water past the wake. If you give up power in an effort to do this, I believe you lose valuable speed and direction. Works great at your easier passes, but when the line gets short you will end up traveling on a path that is too narrow and too direct. However, maybe I am missing exactly hat you are saying. The Acapulco sun may be getting to me...have sympathy for me struggling through the days of skiing down here.

 

Seth Stisher

SethStisher.com

 

[MrJones]

Sooo many ways to skin the cat. I think the concept of "easing out" might lead some to not moving the ski out on edge. (See Seth's comments)

 

My goal would be to move the ski out as powerfully as I could while maintaining control of the handle and line. If you are moving it out too aggressively to control, you might need a cue to tone you down. If you are not moving it out cleanly enough, you might need a cue to make it more powerful.

 

Everybody is different. That's why you need to visit a guy like Seth, Chet, etc. at times and get some professional help.

[MrJones]

Sooo many ways to skin the cat. I think the concept of "easing out" might lead some to not moving the ski out on edge. (See Seth's comments)

 

My goal would be to move the ski out as powerfully as I could while maintaining control of the handle and line. If you are moving it out too aggressively to control, you might need a cue to tone you down. If you are not moving it out cleanly enough, you might need a cue to make it more powerful.

 

Everybody is different. That's why you need to visit a guy like Seth, Chet, etc. at times and get some professional help.

[Ed_Johnson]

As long as 'Looking Up" doesn't entail looking at 1 ball.....I want to focus on outbound direction first, and will even use the Centerline Wake as a little mini-ramp to help cast the ski outbound for the Reverse C.

 

Looking at 1 ball to soon will cause everything to go more to the inside, causing you to be narrow and fast.

[Ed_Johnson]

As long as 'Looking Up" doesn't entail looking at 1 ball.....I want to focus on outbound direction first, and will even use the Centerline Wake as a little mini-ramp to help cast the ski outbound for the Reverse C.

 

Looking at 1 ball to soon will cause everything to go more to the inside, causing you to be narrow and fast.

[bishop8950]

@horton I have never thought about what to do with my chin but now I will try just out of curiosity!

 

As far as when to ease out of the load, when I feel like I am doing it right, I ease into the load a few feet after I get my second hand on the handle - full power into the white water - starting to think about easing the load about the first wake. I should be very solid through the centerline but if I wait until then to start easing it seems too late. It seems like it should be easiest to control this at the gate because you have more time, but I do better in the course.

 

This was the main thing I was working on last season and still don't have it figured out. Things I was mixing with timing of load was what Seth said about back arm pressure and something Matt Brown said about staying over your feet.

 

@Sethski - ya, sometimes life is a bitch. For you, this week its not, no sympathy

[bishop8950]

@horton I have never thought about what to do with my chin but now I will try just out of curiosity!

 

As far as when to ease out of the load, when I feel like I am doing it right, I ease into the load a few feet after I get my second hand on the handle - full power into the white water - starting to think about easing the load about the first wake. I should be very solid through the centerline but if I wait until then to start easing it seems too late. It seems like it should be easiest to control this at the gate because you have more time, but I do better in the course.

 

This was the main thing I was working on last season and still don't have it figured out. Things I was mixing with timing of load was what Seth said about back arm pressure and something Matt Brown said about staying over your feet.

 

@Sethski - ya, sometimes life is a bitch. For you, this week its not, no sympathy

[Horton]

@Ed_Johnson

I definitely look at the ball. I am unsure if in the long run it is bad but for the moment when I am skiing the smoothest is when I am looking at the next ball.

 

@Sethski I am ashamed to say I have no idea what the heck this means.

"keep your upper body up and out of the way of your lower body so you can move the lower body slightly ahead somewhere near the centerline in order to have the ski accelerate outbound."

 

@MrJones I hear skiers talk about moving the ski out and as with Seth's comments I do not relate to it at all. I don't get it. My outbound drags the my lower body away from the center line / I do not push it out there.

 

Haaa first thread of the Advanced Topics and I already look clueless. Awesome.

[Horton]

@Ed_Johnson

I definitely look at the ball. I am unsure if in the long run it is bad but for the moment when I am skiing the smoothest is when I am looking at the next ball.

 

@Sethski I am ashamed to say I have no idea what the heck this means.

"keep your upper body up and out of the way of your lower body so you can move the lower body slightly ahead somewhere near the centerline in order to have the ski accelerate outbound."

 

@MrJones I hear skiers talk about moving the ski out and as with Seth's comments I do not relate to it at all. I don't get it. My outbound drags the my lower body away from the center line / I do not push it out there.

 

Haaa first thread of the Advanced Topics and I already look clueless. Awesome.

[matthewbrown]

@mrjones there are many ways to skin a cat, however, physics would dictate that there is only one way that will be most efficient(yes, you did beat me head to head in TX...dammnit)

 

@horton ...... the question you are asking is, what do you have to do physically to make the most efficient seemless transition from cutting edge to turning edge while maintaining the optimal path to the next buoy?

 

I like your idea but I think you are missing the point. It seems like you are trying to manufacture your answer while disregarding the other variables in play, or variables that have already gone sideways.

 

What are some of the variables that would cause you to have a hard edge change? Pulling too long so that by the time you edge change, the load is released all at once due to the tangent forces. Ass back in cut, blocking the skis movement separating arms from vest. Ski shooting out too far in front without your center of mass keeping up. Legs too stiff, stacked but too far on the back of the ski. The list goes on and on but never once is it as simple as pulling too hard.

 

My point is that if you are moving toward the wakes in a dynamic stacked position with your ankles flexed forward, hips completely centered over your ski aligned with your shoulders, and are starting your edge change at centerline you wont have to worry about hard edge changes because they can’t happen.

 

I'm not saying that your technique wouldn't help you to get in a better body position behind the boat. But, I think at that point when you tell yourself to keep your vision up...it's merely a band-aid approach to correct something else that has already gone awry.

 

[matthewbrown]

@mrjones there are many ways to skin a cat, however, physics would dictate that there is only one way that will be most efficient(yes, you did beat me head to head in TX...dammnit)

 

@horton ...... the question you are asking is, what do you have to do physically to make the most efficient seemless transition from cutting edge to turning edge while maintaining the optimal path to the next buoy?

 

I like your idea but I think you are missing the point. It seems like you are trying to manufacture your answer while disregarding the other variables in play, or variables that have already gone sideways.

 

What are some of the variables that would cause you to have a hard edge change? Pulling too long so that by the time you edge change, the load is released all at once due to the tangent forces. Ass back in cut, blocking the skis movement separating arms from vest. Ski shooting out too far in front without your center of mass keeping up. Legs too stiff, stacked but too far on the back of the ski. The list goes on and on but never once is it as simple as pulling too hard.

 

My point is that if you are moving toward the wakes in a dynamic stacked position with your ankles flexed forward, hips completely centered over your ski aligned with your shoulders, and are starting your edge change at centerline you wont have to worry about hard edge changes because they can’t happen.

 

I'm not saying that your technique wouldn't help you to get in a better body position behind the boat. But, I think at that point when you tell yourself to keep your vision up...it's merely a band-aid approach to correct something else that has already gone awry.

 

[Horton]

@matthewbrown

what do you have to do physically to make the most efficient seemless transition from cutting edge to turning edge while maintaining the optimal path to the next buoy?

 

Yes that is a better way to state what I am talking about. I am chewing on your comments.

[Horton]

@matthewbrown

what do you have to do physically to make the most efficient seemless transition from cutting edge to turning edge while maintaining the optimal path to the next buoy?

 

Yes that is a better way to state what I am talking about. I am chewing on your comments.

[MarcusBrown]

I see it like this: In General Terms

 

Everybody is unique. With their own idiosyncrasies, characteristics, strengths and weaknesses. Therefore, every skier is in a slightly different body position than everyone else in the world.....at any given point in the course.

 

Does that change what physics??....or the rules of an efficient stance/position? Does it mean 1 person can get away with having their CG in the wrong spot, while another can't?

 

I'd say no. But what it does mean, is every single skier is going to be approaching perfection on the water from a slightly different angle. Therefore the things "they" have to do, focus on, visualize, etc.... are likely going to be different.

 

That is why I feel like each skier needs to develop a cognitive understanding of what an "efficient transition" looks like. The better the skiers understanding, along with a good inventory of what they currently do.....will often allow them to be their own best coach: and pin point the move(s) they need to make to maximize efficiency, and performance.

 

Personally, @Horton, I think you have just scratched the surface with that hair.... a few more years = a few more lbs of wetted mass upstairs = slower transitions naturally...

[MarcusBrown]

I see it like this: In General Terms

 

Everybody is unique. With their own idiosyncrasies, characteristics, strengths and weaknesses. Therefore, every skier is in a slightly different body position than everyone else in the world.....at any given point in the course.

 

Does that change what physics??....or the rules of an efficient stance/position? Does it mean 1 person can get away with having their CG in the wrong spot, while another can't?

 

I'd say no. But what it does mean, is every single skier is going to be approaching perfection on the water from a slightly different angle. Therefore the things "they" have to do, focus on, visualize, etc.... are likely going to be different.

 

That is why I feel like each skier needs to develop a cognitive understanding of what an "efficient transition" looks like. The better the skiers understanding, along with a good inventory of what they currently do.....will often allow them to be their own best coach: and pin point the move(s) they need to make to maximize efficiency, and performance.

 

Personally, @Horton, I think you have just scratched the surface with that hair.... a few more years = a few more lbs of wetted mass upstairs = slower transitions naturally...

[Horton]

@matthewbrown

I really hate reading your comments because I know I need to work on moving my center forward. In all my years of skiing I have never really worked on it. I have worked hard to get to stacked and roughly centered but further forward is all unknown to me. I watch Parrish and even Nate and they do not seem as forward as Terry or Jamie or even Greg Badal.

 

I am just not sure how much I am missing by only striving to just get my hips over my front heel or however far forward I am at the wakes.

 

Side note: I am working hard to bring my hips forward off the second wake.

 

@MarcusBrown

I mostly agree with what you are saying (that is if I understand what you are saying). If our body is a lever that loads the ski and the rope in a complex fashion, there is one single best method. I think you are saying that within each skiers physical limitations there is more than one way to get close their individual limit. Right?

 

@Sethski

I translate what you have said to keep power in my right arm off the second wake going to one (good reminder) and keep my junk pointed to the right of the ball. Correct?

[Blofeld]

Keeping my shoulders level at the wakes helps me with a smoother edge change