Why we should move 5 ball in by 6 inches

[Horton]

I have come to believe that we should move 5 ball in by 6 inches. A number of years ago I hit 5 ball and ever since then I have been haunted by the need to go around 5 ball. The position of 5 ball clearly impacts my enjoyment of the sport of water skiing and presents a safety concern to all skiers.

 

For the skiing community as a whole, if a skier is going to hit a ball there is a 1 in 6 chance that it will be 5 ball. Simply moving this one ball by only 6 inches will improve the safety worldwide.

 

It could be argued that the remaining 5 balls are also unnecessarily dangerous. Like telephone poles alongside country roads these obstacles were invented at a time when skier safety and metal state was not fully understood. Ultimately I would like to propose that all buoys be moved in by 6 inches. If not moved in they should at least be submerged to prevent impact or negative judgment from officials.

 

I will polish this into a formal proposal for the rules committee when I get time.

 

[Horton]

Sarcasm? I did not say sink them 14 meters.

[ForrestGump]

Maybe we should just get rid of the buoys and gates entirely. Then no one can hit them.

[Brady]

@ShaneH get rid of the buoys and I will instantly become a world-class skier. :)

 

[ForrestGump]

See, this is better for everyone!

[ral]

@ShaneH, what mushrooms have you be slipping into Horton's Kilo Kai???

 

Although, thinking about this, if we get rid of the boat (propeller and potential high speed collisions are way too dangerous), and the water (thus radically reducing drowning risks), I could save a lot of money...

[Than_Bogan]

All fixed by projected virtual buoys. I'm still waiting for my multi-million dollar grant to come through so that I can develop them. Maybe I should start a kick-starter campaign. Let's see I could probably sell a few thousand of the things, so I just need to charge about $5 grand per buoy. Who's in!?

[Wish]

@Than_Bogan I can't see how you would get denied the grant if it falls under the "Afordable Care Act" I mean it does after all make it "fair" for all and is in the best interest of everyone's "right to health" . Win Win.

[The_MS]

Just move them all in when I ski.

[9400]

It would appear Dr. Jim was ahead of his time.

[Horton]

I can only hope that a few of you understood the point I'm trying to make

[9400]

We could call this new sport show skiing

[Horton]

or snowboarding

[A_B]

We should just judge spray. Afterall, chicks dig big spray! At least, uninformed ones....

[Edbrazil]

Staying in the true spirit of this discussion:

 

Back when, circa 1960, when buoys were not really standardized, and you worked with whatever you could work with, such as suction cups glued to beach balls, or auto inner tubes partially inflated and folded twice: on my lake on the course that was left over from the 1959 Nationals, my locals found some boat mooring buoys to use as skier buoys.

 

However, they had spiral metal wire extensions on top of them, where I guess you could clip onto. With the sharp end of the wire sticking out. You could tell who was using the course and cutting the buoys closely by the deep scratches on their thighs.

 

Note, that the guys were also jumpers, coming from the time of no sidecurtains, no helmets, and no vests, this just fit in to their profile.

 

How about using these buoys to keep people like Horton well away from them?

[Killer]

@Edbrazil no javex bottles? I prefer the slow burn of bleach on my skin, then I know I really backed sided the sucker

[E_T]

@horton 5 ball should be moved 152.4mm

[MickeyThompson]

What I don't understand why is so many skiers are opposed to making our sport safer and more popular.

Two examples basketball made a major change when they added the three point line and football changed defensive rules to give the offense an advantage. Both of these sports were open minded and have gain popularity. We should take the same progressive approach.

[Brady]

@MickeyThompson I agree, I think we should make the sport safer. That would mean making a safer ball to me. As far as moving the balls closer, or changing the gates, I believe what @Horton is saying is that even though other sports have made changes, they have not dropped the rim from 10 feet, nor has football changed the field from 100 yards.

[Horton]

I hear snow ski racing is taking all the angle out of the mountains

[Jody_Seal]

I just want a half a meter in my main handle because I am a half a meter shorter then the rest of my competition!!! Oh yea I have been told I am built to jump and trick!!!

[ForrestGump]

Jody, at least they haven't told you that you were built to be a jump anchor. :)

[ral]

@MIckeyThompson, I think not many skiers are opposed to making our sport safer and more popular. Changing the entry gate rules will neither make the ski safer nor more popular. Putting Goode bubble buoys for sure makes skiing safer (but for sure not more popular...), and many of us have them in our lakes. IMHO, it is the best alternative out there at this stage. If there was a better one at a similar or lower price, I would have it.

 

I find hard to find any relationship between the basketball and football examples and safety and popularity in waterskiing.

[04196]

@MickeyThompson, dude you make some awesome tires, used to run them back in the 60's. How 'bout developing the next generation of safer buoys? Radials? Bias? All Season Z rated!!!

[BG1]

I think what @Mickey Thompson is saying is that some people are opposed to change just because that’s the way it has always been even though the change will improve things. There may be others who oppose it because; “If I had to deal with the gates all these years everyone does”. Some are opposed to changing the gate rule because they like the challenge and have invested an enormous of amount of time and effort into becoming proficient with the gates. I can understand and respect this third reason completely. I like the challenge of the gates and have invested an enormous amount of time and effort into the gates and have finally become proficient just in time for all of this “not judge the gate talk;” yet after a lot of thought I think it needs to happen for the reasons stated on this forum and other places. I know of no one in support of changing the gate rule that is a “cry baby” or looking for a short cut. It was said on this forum that Chet is in favor of a gate rule change and he is killing it right now while, to my knowledge, has never missed the gates. Chet may be the most mentally tough human I have ever met. He’s not looking for an easy out. He’s looking to improve the sport.

[Horton]

If you look at the polls most skiers are not really for it. Maybe we need to change the way we judge the very close calls but besides that I can not see a reason to ever say it is ok to go out side the current gates.

[matthewbrown]

just put a bottle of Kilo Kai on top of 5 ball, @horton would never hit it again

[ForrestGump]

@matthewbrown No, instead he'd core a hole for a shot glass in the forebody of that Prophecy!

[ToddL]

Another way to look at "change" is to ask the question differently:

If you were to create a new division of slalom skiing where you could start from scratch on all rules and course layout, what would that division be like?

 

This question doesn't criticize the status quo. It doesn't even suggest an end to it. Rather, it simply asks what would your new division be like. Thus, it is more about creative innovation than change.

[AggieSkier]

If you move the 5, you also move the 2. Maybe this response should be in the engineering sub group.

[tbrenchley]

I can't quite figure out what all the chatter is about changing the gates, moving the gates, removing the gates...it just doesn't make sense to me. As far as the points made in this thread, I'm not sure how you're going to make this sport any safer or more popular by making any change to the gates. Show me data where the gates are more dangerous than the 3 ball or the 4 ball because if safety is what you're looking for you might want to take Horton's advice and just narrow the course a little maybe even slow down the boat?

 

I still scratch my head and wonder who came up with the center line rule that the gates are good if the center of your ski goes over the center of the gate ball...honestly who can really see that but let's not get carried away and just remove the challenge of the gates. I've had my gates pulled one time in the 10+ years I've been skiing competitively because I guess my centerline was an inch off but since then I aim for a foot inside the right gate ball and honestly I've never been late to the one ball. Heck if Regina can split gates at 41 off and get to the 4 ball I don't think nudging the right gate ball is what you should be working on.

[Horton]

@tbrenchley

Amen Brother!

[Horton]

@ToddL

if you started that thread it would be interesting.

 

if I was going to rewrite the rule book from scratch all officials would have to be hot chicks in bikinis

[BG1]

@tbrenchley A major safety advantage with the gate rule change is giving the skier the same space to go out the exit gate for a full buoy at 6 ball as they get for buoys 1-5, which is 41 meters. This would reduce the skiers “do or die” attempts to get the complete 6 buoys in less space to advance to the next pass. There is no data that I know of comparing falls at 6 ball to the other 5 but I know I’ve seen more bad crashes and close calls there than at any one of the other 5 buoys. I know of one death because of 6 ball and the short exit gates. The stakes are higher at 6 ball because of the bonus of advancing to the next pass and the distance to get the full buoy is shorter. This combination leads to a more hazardous environment at 6 ball that is self-evident.

Safety on the entrance gates is not the issue it was when the rules went from buoys 9”-11” diameter to the current 7.8” diameter. Those big buoys could turn your lights out if you hit one of those at full speed and load. The smaller, current size of 7.8” are a distraction when I hit them and on occasion will move my ski causing me to pause but I have yet to crash, which is an improvement in safety. I do think it is possible that the current air inflated 7.8” buoy could take someone out if their fin centered the buoy popping the tail up and digging the tip in. That is one nasty fall; probably the worse. Hitting a turn buoy is something you do at close to boat speed and you have a relatively long, unobstructed view of it. You are going much faster at around 1.6 times boat speed when you hit an entrance gate. You lose sight of the right-hand gate when the boat blocks it, when the wake and spray hides it, and because your head needs to be up and looking cross course, not down. There is little or no warning. You are in a stronger position to power over the buoy behind the boat at the gates when you hit the buoy but the stakes of a crash are still high. I think most skiers right now would want both gate buoys to stay where they are for timing although I had no problem adjusting my timing by spacing myself in front of the left-hand gate when I skied a few sets with the right-hand buoy removed. When I replaced the right-hand gate buoy and kept using the left-hand buoy as my reference point I found that I would be between 0 and 24” from the right gate every time! My timing was better because I did not lose sight of that left-hand buoy. I now get the best gates I ever have. My experience tells me no one would be yearning for that right-hand gate ball after a set or two of adjustment. Removing the right-hand gate buoy would be the safest solution because the entrance gates are very close to where most skiers are trying to go. The right-hand gate ball is nothing but an unnecessary, useless, and potentially hazardous obstacle that is impossible to judge with any fair consistency. With this new rule of not judging the gates and possibly removing the right-hand buoy I can promise you the challenge of the start (gate) will be just as demanding and gratifying as ever when you “nail” it.

 

[tbrenchley]

I'll just have to disagree with you @BG1. First, let's address the space to go out the exit gate, why would I need the same distance (41 meters) to get to the center of the course as I do to get all the way to the other side of the course to make a turn? Why should you get bailed out for running a terrible pass and squeaking around the 6 ball with enough time to S-turn, eat a sandwich and get back to the exit gates? Do or die mentality is just the way this sport is and it can be at any point in the pass, eliminating the gates is not going to change people trying to hang on to things that they shouldn't.

 

Second, I've been skiing for many, many years and run the gates thousands of times and I'm sure I've hit my share of gate balls and never once has it even affected my ski and caused me to crash so I'd like to see if anyone else on here has ever had the gate ball monster jump up and bite you...anyone??? And to be honest with you I never use the right hand gate buoy as a reference point because it does disappear, but when it does reappear it's not a problem because I'm not trying to get as close to it as possible. It's a technical aspect of the course that only enhances the experience for me.

[BG1]

@tbrenchley I’m ok with us agreeing to disagree.

[ToddL]

@Horton - that would make it a little easier to stay open to the boat for sure.

[Horton]

@ToddL what?

[ToddL]

@Horton: officials would have to be hot chicks in bikinis (boat judge)

 

[bfreeski]

Like any sport, there is an inherent danger in participating. Moving the exit gate further away might prevent people from taking a ridiculous hit at 6 ball. However, doing so basically assured someone they can make 6 ball if......... they can just get around 5 ball. All that has really done is move the make or break moment to 5 ball.......so maybe our brilliant moderator is on to something......moving 5 ball in six inches will reduce the crack-ups at 5 ball.........especially after we move the exit gates.

 

Perhaps buoys can be made safer, or handles can be made safer. The skiers mind however cannot be changed.....narrow the course? Move the gates? Get rid of the gates? All we would really accomplish is to change where the accidents happen...........vests, safer buoys, helmets, and handles you can't stick your body parts through may be the condoms and dental dams of our sport........but abstinence is the only 100% safe way to participate.

 

 

[Horton]

I think what happened at Moomba yesterday speaks to the original point of this thread.

 

Clearly they need to stop the current, slow the boats down, smooth the water and move the balls in at Moomba.

[GroovyGrant]

@Horton‌ --off-topic, but I dig the links in your signature line--and I'm sure the sponsors do too. Good idea.

 

And, yes, I agree that skiing conditions should be modified to be completely laboratory-like so I can just read a book about how to run a perfect pass and then use my intellect to go do it with no need for talent or experience.

[thager]

Trophies for everyone!!!! @Hortons' buying!!!! Life is fair.

[TeamWally]

Keeping the Olympic dream alive it would seem me have more than enough judges and officials to develop a scoring system like figure skating with out the use of those pesky bouys. 28 off would become he compulsory long form, 38 the short form, 39 the equivalent of a triple axle with a twizzle. Falling would mean you lose, unless the judges felt otherwise. Lets purify the sport.

[ForrestGump]

My trophy is getting around 6 ball at whatever line length I'm struggling at. To hell with this mamby pamby, everyone wins, it's only fair line of thinking.

 

And we should ban @TeamWally for even bringing such a thing up!