Open Masters overall rule change application

[eleeski]

AWSA Rules Amendment Request Form

In order to request that the rules be amended you must be a U.S. Citizen and a current member of USA Water Ski with AWSA listed as

your primary sports division. This form must be submitted in electronic format to the Chairman of the Rules Committee by August 31st

to be considered for the upcoming year.

Member Name: _Eric Lee_____________________________________

USAWS Member Number___200008363___________________________

Age Division_M5_______(ex. B1)

U.S. Citizen?_Y___ yes _____ no

AWSA primary sports division? _Y___yes ____no

Rule number to change?____3.03 B) 5) _____ (ex. 1.08)

Suggested wording:

3.03 B) 5) Open or Masters scores shall count toward age division overall scores if a skier is not overall qualified in Open or Masters. When impractical or unfair to transfer scores, the Open/Masters skier may ski in that age division event for an overall score only, then ski in Open/Masters event for placement.

 

 

Reason: Since overall scores don’t carry over, overall skiers have a disincentive to ski Open/Masters. They are forced to miss out on the overall fun or be labeled as sandbaggers. Single event Open/Masters skiers had great performances to earn that honor. They earned the right to keep an overall score or a chance to ski again to earn an overall score.

 

 

Background: Overall is fun! Why punish the skiers for good performances? And bigger Open and Masters divisions are good for spectators and the sport

 

[eleeski]

I haven't sent this yet. Any proofreaders?

It's OK to disagree but I might send it anyway.

It might be accepted - Snowball's chance in ....

Eric

[RichardDoane]

@eleeski - hit send, that's a good idea that should be supported

[klindy]

I agree this is a dilemma that needs to be resolved. I need to think about this proposal more.

[disland]

Are you proposing that the ski would get to ski twice? meaning say a jumper could ski in mens 4 for overall and MM events? I like this idea.

[Than_Bogan]

I'm not an overall skier so I'll leave the details to others. But CLEARLY this needs to be fixed, and surely there's a good solution possible.

 

If my support is of any value, I'd support any proposal that Eric and a few other overall skiers like.

[Jody_Seal]

I don't have a problem with skiers carrying a score up from an age group division to say open or MM to complete a overall score. But their are those that will whine that men 3 (example not fingering out any group) jump got a preferred boat or driver and or the conditions were better two days ago when they skied! or men 4 had easier trick judges then the MM. No this plan will never, "I Say" never fly! Even though I think that skiers should be able to compete in age group in one or two events and ski in the elite level in the other and carry scores up... I am in a minority! So is Eric!

[Than_Bogan]

@Jody_Seal Those sound like real issues, but I definitely don't think you and Eric are in a minority. This issue came up in another thread a while ago, and I'd say 100% of the commenters wanted folks to be able to compete in MM or OM in some events and still have it count toward overall.

 

Again, not being an overall skier, I may be totally missing something. But wouldn't "I" (in quotation marks since clearly this is not literally me) always rather have Kevin Jack compete in Open tricks so that "I" have some remote chance of winning in M1 tricks? Who cares if his or my trick judge is more generous because he's beating "me" by like 4000 points anyhow! And if I'm much better at Jump and/or Slalom that he is, then "I" may also have a chance of winning in overall!

 

The status quo is so much worse: Either Kevin can't compete in overall at all, which seems incredibly unfair to him, or he's forced to ski M1 tricks, which hoses both groups: The open division is missing a key competitor that everyone wants to see and the M1 guys are grumpy about sand-bagging.

 

Weather can change over the course of even one event, so getting different conditions seems like a terrible reason to prevent this from going foward.

 

The problems you cite are real, but the proposal would still be SO much better than where we are now.

[disland]

@jody_seal what about the ski twice concept. The skier can 3 event in age group but also be allowed to enter MM jump. His mens 3/4 jump score will be for overall only and not for placement. Lets see how far some of these guys can go.

[MattP]

Easy work around at the moment would just have to sanction a "separate MM/Open nationals" for them. Wait and we could call it the US Open.. And have it during Nationals.

[Jody_Seal]

No ski twice! Ski three events carry any scores "UP" to the open or MM. no carrying scores down to age group.