Carbon Pro 6.0 PCM 409 Closed cooling pros/Cons

[oldmanskier]

I have been looking at a couple of Carbon Pros (2014 and 2015) with 6.0 PCM 409 engines.

They both have a closed cooling system.

Do all 6.0 in Carbon pros have closed cooling systems?

What are the advantages/Disadvantages to Closed cooling systems?

I assume the closed cooling would increase price of boat.

Oldmanskier.

[Horton]

@oldmanskier All Carbon Pros do not come with closed cooling. I think it is a option that is usually only for salt water.

[gregy]

There would be a little increase in weight. Also something extra to brake. Other than that the only hesitation I would is that it may have been used in saltwater.

[Gloersen]

Could be mistaken but reasonably certain all PCM 6.0L 409’s have the closed cooling system as standard (not optional) equipment. I assume this is due to an iron block combined with aluminum heads such that the anti-corrosive properties of the closed cooling fluid is warranted.

 

Many advantages to the closed cooling system; the added cost is inherent with this PCM 6.0, so no real disadvantage.

 

The 6.0 is hands down a better power package than the 5.7 in the SN 200, not so much in the Carbon Pro (5.7 is fine for slalom)

 

Maybe Jody Seal can chime in.

 

[Wish]

Ive seen 3 6L of various yrs on various brands recently. All have been close cooled.

[Horton]

Well crap. I could swear my 6L was not closed cooling but that was 2 years ago so maybe I just forgot. You should never take boat mechanical advice from me.

[Horton]

Zap! says that it is only a closed system

[Jody_Seal]

All PCM 6.0 ZR engines are closed cooled and have been from the get go, Dissimilar metals , Heads aluminum and block Cast Iron.

The new 5.3 and 6.2 DI engines are not unless ordered as coastal editions and then you get a crusader package.

[MISkier]

Advantages:

 

No winterizing other than draining the heat exchanger.

No muddy water to harden into concrete and lead to an overheated cylinder or two.

 

Disadvantages:

 

Cost

[Wish]

We got heat exchangers for our boats and never had any problems after.

 

@Mark_Matis how, where?

[JackQ]

A closed system (half or full) warms up faster, and maintains a more consistent temp. They use a 195 degree thermostat vice the raw water 145, which results in the engine running more efficiently.

[RichardDoane]

the Broho club boat is a 2015 Carbon Pro with the 6.0, and we've found the downside of the closed system is getting hot enough raw water to fill the cooler on the dock, it's only lukewarm compared to the raw water off of an open system on the 2014 with the 5.7

[MISkier]

@richarddoane, I was wondering how well the heat exchanger worked for the shower and heater. Do you notice less heat out of the heater, too?

[oldmanskier]

Thanks for all the great information.

I may have missed it in reading all the comments.

Is the 2014 and 2015 Carbon Pro PCM 6.0 409 a Full closed system or a Half closed system?

 

Much to think about.

Not for sure if I want to give the extra money for a Carbon Pro 6.0.

This is due to I have had many comments in this and another post I started about Carbon Pro 6.0.

The comments tend to lean towards that the Carbon Pro with a 6.0 did not have that much of a difference in slalom pull than the 5.7 and, the 5.7 is all I need for a good slalom pull.

I have much to think about concerning the Carbon Pro I choose.

Thanks again for all the information.

oldmanskier.

[kfennell]

@oldmanskier I believe that you are considering Jeff's boat in Texas. This is BY FAR the best skiing boat in the central TX area and I think I have skied behind a good selection of them. You will not regret buying the 6L once you have driven it for 5 minutes. I own a 5.7L CP and I much prefer Jeff's boat, so does my main ski partner and we both (him more then me) ski into -35@36.

[lakeaustinskier]

If you ARE looking at Jeff's boat at SMRR I'll second @kfennell about that boat. I've both skied and driven Jeff's boat and it is top notch. Not wanting to get into a major discussion here but I felt that versus the 5.7 the 6.0 litre was much more "planted" in the water. Well worth the money.

[skiinxs]

All PCM 6 Liters have closed cooling. Other than the first year for cats that they tried to cool the cat's with the closed cooling, they are all great systems. In 2012 they went to the partial closed cooling where the cats are cooled with lake water. The heaters always seem to put out more heat with the closed cooling, they are quicker to winterize (no block or heater to drain), and coolant with antifreeze in the block would seem to me to prevent internal corrosion. I have had a lot of them and never had any issues caused by the closed cooling. The 2015 model was more convenient after they eliminated the little screen from the exhaust thermostat housing. I previously always cleaned the screens every 25 hours since they would get a lot of stuff in them.

[RichardDoane]

@MISkier - the forced air heater does well, it has antifreeze flowing through the heater core as part of the closed system, another downside is no shower on this boat. We pick up the warm outflow off of the right exhaust manifold, no need for an electric pump, but water temperature is not very hot, yet better than cold lake water

[oldmanskier]

Kfennel and lakeaustinskier thanks for the reference on Jeff's boat. I will add this to that boats folder from my research.

I have contacted Jeff and asked questions. SMMR great place. I was there at 2014 Nationals. Watching not skiing.

I am looking at everything Carbon Pro 2013 and newer under 300 hours.

What ever I get will most likely be the last boat I get. So it needs to last 7 to 10 years.

By then my skies days may be over due to every year I get a new medical issue or injury of some kind.

I hope the Carbon Pro has a nice 22 off wake (once I test one I will know).

I am currently having to start at 28 off on our club 2012 Mastercraft due to 22 off hump on that boat destroys my ankle.

28 off I can manage but I really should be starting at 22 off.

Thanks again for all the information.

oldmanskier

 

 

[MISkier]

I heard that @Horton previous Carbon Pro (now in Michigan) is for sale. I do not know the details, but that boat was spotless the last time I saw it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Horton]

Oooo my old 6L

[MISkier]

@Horton, that is the boat that pulled me through my later-than-midlife crisis to put my first ever 36 mph score in the tournament books (at nearly 50 years old).

[kfennell]

@oldmanskier if your main concern is -22 wake size just change props if you don't like it. There was a HUGE difference on my boat with the 2207 acme prop like smallest wakes of any boat by far. If you get a 6l then the 2209, pull is a little firm at 36 but wife really liked it at 30-34.

[RAWSki]

@MISkier thanks for the kind words on the 'True Blue' 6LCP, there were several personal best scores recorded behind it last year but I believe your's was the only one done in August in full dry suit. ;-) To quote Horton, "You don't need the 6L in the Carbon Pro but you Want it". It is certainly welcome at sites with short set ups and of course at jump events, you do have to make sure drivers know the engine is in the boat so they don't 'hammer' the pull outs. I believe PCM calls the engine "half-closed cooling" it is nice to have here in Michigan since the heater, uses anti-freeze vs. raw water, no worrying about the heater core over the winter.

[MISkier]

And if anybody thinks @RAWSki is kidding, I actually did wear a full dry suit in that tournament in mid-August.