What are your preferred tournament circumstances?

[Horton]

I am specifically not talking about Regionals, Nationals, or a special event like a BallOfSpray Cash Prize or a BigDawg. I am talking about normal weekend events.

 

Please take a moment to consider what you would prefer as opposed to how things are for you normally.

[Horton]

Personally my competitive attitude is broken. For years I have attended local tournaments where I am either ahead of everyone in my division by a number of balls or a pass behind. Basically if Larson shows I am usually second by 6 balls and if he does not show I am usually first by 3 or more.

 

If I drive 4 hours to Sacramento there are a number of guys WAY better than me ( @dirt @bishop8950 @mattbrown and many others) and a number of guys at my level.

 

Neither of these situations feels like competition. I have fallen into the trap of only skiing for my own score and not generally caring about how I stack up (second is first loser). This thread is NOT about Nationals but it is the same problem there. I am not competitive for the win so if I skied Nationals it would only be for my own personal score.

 

I have had bad experiences with ability based structures in the past but maybe the time has come for me to reevaluate that.

 

[Horton]

@JeffSurdej I hope this thread is interesting for you

[disland]

I like handicap best, ability based second best, skiing for a score last.

[colo_skier]

I don't do tourney's cause I don't think anybody ski's as bad as I do. But if there was actually people interested in skiing at my level then maybe a tourney would be fun.

[RazorRoss3]

I ski my best when I ski for me so I have to say that's my preference but that's more of a mindset than tournament organization. You can approach a tournament full of ability or age similar skiers and still have the mindset of skiing for yourself. Beyond that I think it is fun to be on the dock at the same time as other skiers who are in the same ability range because I think you can learn something and you're all working through the same things.

[spartanskier10]

Coming from a college skier, I would have far less interest in skiing tournaments (awsa or ncwsa) if I wasn't up against people of the same age. Although I probably will never finish near the top, I still love going up against these guys and seeing how good some are. Thoughts may change as I get older but I love the current atmosphere skiing against all people my age.

[ALPJr]

I like the thoughts here lately about ability based and handicapping. One of my ski bud's says... If I want the tournament experience (rather than our regular weekend sessions with 6 to 8 passes per set) I could swim to shore when I fall or ski back to the starting dock when I miss. Maybe a minimum number of passes or two falls per round for the more novice levels would raise some enthusiasm for tourneys.

[The_MS]

I just want to ski my best each and every set. I prefer E/L/R 6 round slalom weekends.

I have certain sites that I prefer and a few on my bucket list that I want to get to. (Lake 38 and Ski Chaste).

3 sets, IPA, dinner with friends and do it all over again on Sunday.

I have no problem with 6 round C weekends as long as I know the site and that there will be quality driving.

No plans on skiing Nats ever again but will ski the Regionals next year in Minnesota.

[Razorskier1]

@MS took the words out of my mouth. Great six round weekend, friends, beers, and relaxation.

 

As for the poll, I am really there to challenge myself rather than compare myself to others (like @RazorRoss3). Tournaments are a way to validate the scores I ski in practice, not a way to "beat" someone else in my age group.

 

That being said, I have skied a couple of ability-based grouping tournaments and they were fun! It is cool to be on the dock with men, women, boys, girls who are in your ability range and to be "competing" in that way.

[DanE]

How many individual sports can you think of where everyone that enters have even a remote chance to win? Even in open and pro tournaments there are only a handful that skis for the win.

[ToddL]

Today's current national ranking, etc. context would bias people toward the middle choice. The 3rd choice is satisfied completely via the rankings database.

What I really want is #1 plus my score still going into the rankings machine (until such time that a major change is made).

[gregy]

I liked the Bos handicap tournament. Made things interesting.

[Edbrazil]

Needs to be an added selection for: CHEAP.

[MattL]

I first like to ski against my average, but I like to hang out and compete with other skier's my age both boys and girls to see how we did comparatively against our own averages.

[jipster43]

I measure myself to others by height.

[lpskier]

The pecking order in the East for M5 & M6 is pretty certain. If I ski a PB, Jim DiBella and (God forbid) Sam Ingram are still going to smoke me. Now if @adkh2oskier , @MikeT or a couple other guys that are near me are there and I can beat them (particularly @adkh2oskier ;-) )I do take special pleasure in that. That said, we would all be lumped together with the "best" skiers if grouped by ability, so ultimately it wouldn't make a lot of difference to me one way or the other. I'm within two buoys of all but five M5/6 skiers in the Region. Throw those five guys out and In my mind I ski against the best skiers within 15 years of my age at any tournament. So to me, unless there is a "prize," and there never is, I say "Who cares."

 

That's a really long winded way of saying that if changing the format works for a majority, I'm fine with it.

[MISkier]

My answer is rooted in personal goals. I have some particular achievements I want to reach with regard to personal scores, ranking, and qualifying. The main reason that skiing against others is secondary is that I am not competitive in my age division.

[wtrskior]

I might ski 1 or 2 events a summer. IF they are Close to home and happen to be a regional then so beit.

 

I would say I want to ski to my own score I know I can run but it would be damn nice to beat a few skiers in my division. I

 

That said I did beat a few skiers at regionals who average 6+ buoys ahead of me and that's because for some reason they messed up and fell on their easy passes. To me I didn't win anything, that's just skiing, it can happen to anyone and I'm not kidding myself into thinking I'm a better skier than them because they fell early one day.

 

I would be more interested in competing if there were handicaps.

[lpskier]

To illustrate my point, and I should have mentioned it before, right now @adkh2oskier and I are in different divisions. He's a youngster in M5.

[6balls]

My challenge is to ski to my practice avg to be satisfied. More and that's great. Having said that I love ability based grouping at the tourneys whether or not it affects placement in the end. Fun to be on the dock with a bunch of people who want nothing more than to run purple and pulling for all of 'em.

[skidawg]

Option 4-I want to hang with my ski family and put up a big score

[Zman]

Option 4 with an ok score.

[aupatking]

It really sounds like an extremely difficult thing to do, to group by ability. Handicap maybe?

I'm busting my butt to get better, & post better scores for myself, but I want to win,and that is absolutely impossible in my age group. I got my cousin to sign up for his first tournament and he dropped $70 for 3 rounds of 1 pass. After the second round, he says, I'll never do this again. Dude skis every day, but has been on a slalom ski for little more than a year. There are guys in our age group running into 41.

Seems like if there were a lot more participants, it would be easier to group by ability. Wasn't there at least a novice division. Don't I remember that from when I was a kid? When a first timer says they'll never be back, system failure

[Edbrazil]

Needs to be an added selection for: CHEAP. I come from the days when there was actual

competition at local tournaments, and you valued placing against others in your division.

For one thing, there were awards for placements, and not just trophies, but maybe items

of some use/value, such as ski handles, towlines, or useful household things, such as

trays and bowls. You may have been miles away from any division records, but it was

satisfying to place well and even beat skiers who normally beat you. I liked the Overall

competition, especially when you could figure just how much risk you needed to take in

the final Jump event.

[ALPJr]

IMO a lot can be learned from the folks at Berkeley Acquatic Park. After more than a decade as a free skier I became a tournament hound in the northeast in '89. Skied lots of local tourneys until moving to the Bay Area for two years in '93. Skied the weekends and all the clubs tourneys at Berkeley, the Delta, Shortline and BelAqua. Came back east still stoked and skied a few fun tourney formats until life got in the way with work and kids travel. I'd like to get back into it now and hope there's some fun competative formats next summer.

[adkh2oskier]

Alright @lpskier I didn't even realize we were competing against each other all these years, guess I'll have to get my course in before July 4th next year and practice up. After Nationals I'll be in M6 with you. Hope to see you at more tournaments next season.

[jcamp]

I ski in tournaments because I'm trying to get that next buoy and line length. I pay attention to where I stack up against others - some skiers more than others :-) - but when I finally run that line length I've been close to running for the last couple years, I will not give a damn if I took first or 101st. Then I'll try to start knocking down that next loop.

[Beastmode]

Having only competed for 3 seasons now and starting with 1st tournament PB 3@32mph and now have an avg in 38' I can say that my opinion has changed on this topic. I have always been in M4 South Central where M4 is stacked with alot of level 8 skiers, so I have always been behind great skiers so beating everyone in M4 has never been a reality for me, but I do take great pride when I ski good and beat others that are of the same ability level. First and foremost increasing my avg and climbing the National Ranking list is what drives me.

This season I skied in 25 tournaments and 70 tournament Rounds since May. I have come to love the social aspect of 6 round Slalom Tournaments the best. Everyone is super friendly and most of the time go to dinner or have a party on site. Alot of one day tournaments are less social -Ski and go home right after.

[colo_skier]

@aupatking From my point of view you worded exactly why I don't even consider skiing tournaments. I am well over 50, been skiing for only 9 years and have no hope of being competitive in my age group. So the only draw may be the social side of a tourney. All the skiers I have met across the country as I travel have always been great. I may have to bite the bullet and do the minimum 3 tournaments so I can get handicapped for the BOS series because it sounds like something I would be interested in doing. Hats off to @Horton for coming up with a tournament format that to me and my situation, at least sounds worthwhile. Doesn't work for everybody but then again nothing does.

[LeonL]

I voted the way I did due to over the years, at local tournaments guys my age have declined to the point there is little opportunity for competition.

[JeffSurdej]

Loving all these discussions, but man I can not keep up with them :)

[bigtex2011]

Tend to agree with @skidawg. Hanging and putting up a big score is the plan. At least I have the hanging out part down.

[aupatking]

@colo_skier I just wanted to clarify, I'm super stoked to PB in a tournament and still be 30 balls behind the winner. It still feels great.

I love the atmosphere and all the great people at the tournaments too.

@Horton asked what would be our optimal. So, like you, I'm skiing in tournaments to qualify for the BOS events. Something I can actually win. I still have to ski my ass off to do it, but that is the point,to ski your own personal best, but it shouldn't be the only point. If that's the only point, just stay home on your lake and shorten when you run it. A PB is a PB

[liquid d]

@horton I think i can help you with your problem. You have many friends/competitors that would love to compete, yet have different abilities.

It's the same in golf. When I play golf, we have many players who I know well enough to know their abilities. The match can be won or lost on the 1st tee. Whether I'm playing against a tour pro, mini tour/college player, or a 15 handicap, I can make a very fair wager. If I don't play well that day, I'm going to lose. If I play well, I'll probably win.

 

In skiing, you can put a little skin in the game. If Larson and Brown normally beat you by 5 or 6 bouys, make them spot you 5 bouys for bottle of Makers Mark! and the one who won't take the bet?...you just call him a wuss until he does!

[Horton]

@liquid d what I'm advocating is that we may need to do that for all skiers at most tournaments.

 

Those who have been to one of my cash prize events will tell you that most of the skiers are skiing handicapped and everybody has a chance to win and everybody has a good time.

[skihard]

I have always believed in skiing against the same level of skiers for better competition and fun. 18+ for adults regardless of ability and same for youth. I've posted in here on this subject numerous times.

 

I can't and will never compete against people in my age bracket as the current system sits. Matter of fact the only reason I ski the 2-3 tournament I ski here in a year is to donate money to the success of the tournaments at friends sites. Oh and those sites are less than an hours drive from my house.

 

I'm hard pressed to even think about traveling anywhere to a tourney when I'm beat before leaving home and can't even compete with the others when I get my ski out of my locker to travel there.

 

Unfortunately this feels like beating a dead horse. It seems as there are many posts on this subject. There are skiing events running successfully (Wednesday Night Ski League, Buckeye Tour, INT) to name a few. They just aren't in my area and also not viewed by many as good for the whole sport in general.

 

We can't compare our tournaments to Malibu Open, Masters, Moomba, etc. Because they are actually skiing against the same level of skiers - dang I just shook my head there realizing what I'm rallying for actually does happen - you just have to be able to ski into 38 off to find a tournament where you can ski against your own level of competition. :)

[A_B]

Back in the day I trained with Ted McColley and a few other "National" guys and Ted was the guy to beat, driving me even in practice. So when we went to tournaments I skied for my rating and to push Ted or best my usual practice average more than the other guys I skied with. A little healthy competition never hurts!

[jwroblew]

I'm there for the score for the most part. If my close friends or guys I have friendly competition with are there, I may stand up at a buoy or S-turn so I can say I beat them and hold it over their head. If they aren't there I'm turning the buoy and trying to get to the next one even if I have no chance of getting there.

 

last year every round I skied I got to 3 ball. My last tournament of the year I was hell bent of getting past 3 ball, my second round I thru the ski out at 4 ball, I got a 3, 3 and 3.5 from the judges so 3 it was. The third round and last round for the year for me same thing but in a little better shape, 3.5, 3 and 3.25 so 3.25 it was. That extra 0.25 felt great, you would have thought I won the Olympics. It didn't matter that some other person had a better score than me, I was just happy I did more than 3!

[chris55]

I had 1 tournament last year and 2 this year and as a beginner I just want to score better and no matter what......I just want to improve my PB each time