Concept for Regional and national competition approach submitted to the AWSA board.

[Jody_Seal]

"Please Keep in mind this is a loose concept and has many holes to be filled in"

 

 

There are many in this sport that believe that the nationals in it's current configuration is not doing the sport any justice. This includes skiers , sponsors / industry and many in AWSA leadership.

The site's that have more then 2 lakes available are and have become hesitant to produce a national championship.

Too long an event to run on a two lake site, too long of an event to run on a three or four lake site.

 

 

A few things to ponder: Over 60% of the Nationally qualified skier's did not attend the national championships. Over 75% of slalom only qualified skiers did not attend nationals.

 

 

Nearly 70% of AWSA members are single event slalom skiers.

 

 

Time frame between regionals and nationals is to close for family's and skiers to consider taking time off for two full weeks of tournament. In some regions throw in a State tournament two weeks in front of regionals.

 

 

Over the recent years there has been many complaint's pertaining to the quality and level of driving and officialdom at the national championships.

 

 

Slalom skiers (1eventers) are looking for more then a one and done at A nationals.

 

 

 

Two National Championships..

The Premises is to allow for a traditional 3 event and a slalom only nationals.

The door is wide open at this time on format and time frame. Team skiing, multi-round and many of the potential hurdles this concept would encumber.

Three Event or traditional nationals would consist of slalom trick and jump and oriented towards the overall of the sport.

The Slalom or super nat's would encompass the slalom only competitor with the availability of multiple rounds and targeting the slalom only near 70% of AWSA membership.

 

 

This concept makes a lot of sense in a lot of way's: 1. Allows for 2 smaller events that can be run on a 2 lake site in 4 day's or less (long weekend).

2. Allows for single event higher capability Slalom only drivers and judges to be more involved at the Slalom Super nat's.

3. Opens up the door for a farther separated time frame between regional 3ev Nat's and slalom Super nat's.

 

 

A few other items that need to be put into place for this two national concept to work and help stem the membership loss: 1. Allow Masters divisions and open divisions the option of not participating at regionals. this would also boost the Masters division's as these are the skiers most complaining about attending regionals

2. Allow men's and women's 8 and above to not have to attend regionals.

3. Add another 10% on the qualifying ranking's number across the board.

 

 

There was a time when nearly 600 competitors entered the southern regionals and nearly a 1000 entered the nationals! That was another time and qualifications needed to be in place that ensured competency at the national level. Membership was big and the pool of skiers was large.

Today's tournament ski world is a mess with non inclusion ideology, time and cost. let's open up some doors and put the emphasis back on the handle end of the rope.

 

[Jody_Seal]

I guess I can vote on my own poll!

[Rpc29]

Pretty simply, anything that is a change from status quo deserves to be explored.

[lpskier]

Frankly, this a brilliant idea. I'd hope they would be different weekends so I can attend both.

 

I take it one event trickers and jumpers would attend the three event nationals but theoretically only ski one event? Having just said that, it occurs to me that this might help encourage people to three event. Or, if you can come to three event nationals and only ski trick or jump, could you only slalom at three event nationals?

 

The downside is a slalom skiing parent with three event kids will probably not like the idea. No one solution will ever make everyone happy.

[ALPJr]

Makes sense to me

[Than_Bogan]

Presently not my favorite idea, but certain worthy of further exploration.

[aupatking]

I really don't qualify, but simply because I agree with @Rpc29 I'm putting my vote in as well.

As Jody mentioned, membership is really low. There's some great ideas out there. Thank you for throwing this one out there

[Texas6]

Me and my son both qualified and didn't go, this proposal would have changed both of our minds

[MISkier]

I qualified for Regionals this year for the first time. If there were some multi-round option there, I might have gone. The travel was a big issue, too, as it was in Kansas this year. Plus, I was surprised to qualify, as my age division previously required a higher level to qualify than other age divisions and that was changed this year.

 

In the other thread about changing regional boundaries, I would think a Great Lakes region of WI, MI, OH, IL, IN would have put the Regionals within consideration. Even MN is a bit of a haul to make. 300 mile drive or so is very doable. 500+ is not really appealing.

 

If I qualify for Nationals, a slalom-only, multi-round option would make it much more appealing to commit to attending.

[sunperch]

@Jody_Seal As a one event slalom skier, I think it is a great idea! The reservations that I have are because of the kids. I think the 2 Nationals idea would split the kid's divisions up too much. Splitting up the kids would take away some of the fun - a good portion of the fun for the kids is seeing their Nationals friends from around the country. Most of the kids I know are 3 event skiers, so they would attend that Nationals (except mine who are slalom only). Most of the parents I know are single event skiers, who would want to attend the Slalom Nationals.

[Hockdog]

As was posted, a change from the status quo would be a good thing.

[dbutcher]

If you have a slalom, trick, jump Nationals and a separate slalom Nationals, who is the National champion slalom skier?

[RazorRoss3]

I like the idea.

 

Concerns

Could this cause 3 event to lose more participants?

Could a multi round slalom nationals just turn into a rankings list? For that event is it better to do 1 round, who came to play that day?

 

Would a possible adjustment be a 1 round nationals combined with a multi round event that was the kickoff to the new season immediately after it? So the last event of this season and first event of next would be the same weekend? It would be like waterski New Years and could provide a true who came to play Nats with a fun multi round event afterward.

[RichardDoane]

@Jody_Seal thank you for caring enough to rock the boat

 

[MISkier]

I am with @RazorRoss3. No multiple rounds to decide the champion, but have an additional event after the "one and done" round.

[jcamp]

"There was a time when nearly 600 competitors entered the southern regionals and nearly a 1000 entered the nationals!"

 

Any reform ideas are already starting off on the wrong foot if they are trying to get back to the participating levels of the good old days. We had those numbers back then because of demographics - the Baby Boomers were booming - not because of anything the sport was doing right or wrong. You can't look at today's numbers and necessarily come to the conclusion that what we are doing today is broken.

 

 

[jwroblew]

great, i have to go to two nationals instead of one...

[disland]

We need to start with the problem statement. Seems your trying to solve too many problems at once. Is the problem low attendance? If the most important thing is getting more people to go, splitting it in half doesn't seem like the best option.

[Horton]

@jcamp I agree that we're not going to get back to Peak levels. But if you just compare the decline of usawaterski membership and the rise and fall of slalom ski sales you would see two completely different to graphs. I believe a much smaller percentage of the skiing world is interested in our tournaments than used to be. The skiing world is smaller but has not shrunk nearly as much as the competitive skiing world.

[Horton]

@sunperch you have to break some eggs to make an omelet. If this concept doesn't work for you what do you suggest?

[Jody_Seal]

I posted this over on another related thread.

Slalom single event members of AWSA make up over 60% of total membership (probably closer to 70%) .

At the 2016 US Nationals ( And by the way probably the best Nat's I have attended ever)

there were just shy of 600 entry's. Nearly Half of those entry's were Slalom single event skier's.

Of the 2016 national qualified overall or multiple event skiers nearly or over 60% attended the Nationals.

Of the 2016 National qualified Single event slalom skiers less then 30% attended the national event.

These numbers are a little loose but with out going into my e-mail and pulling them up they are close.

 

@jcamp

If we were not a split multi level organization and AWSA was a stand alone Sanctioning body I would agree. However because AWSA is a sport group of the USAWS we have become almost half (or more) of their yearly income. If all of our proceeds and income went directly back into the AWSA then there would not be any issues.

When USAWS takes the lion share of AWSA income and redistributes to boost the other sport disciplines and run the offices on a shoestring with high paid senior staff then our sport discipline starts to break down with out membership growth.

 

The goals of the multi national championship concept is to increase participation and AWSA membership at all levels.

To Increase the time frame between the regional and national events that have plagued low entry numbers due to the cost and from taking time off from work to participate.

To allow for two shorter long weekend events rather then one 5-7 day event.

To allow a format where the 70 plus percent of AWSA membership that are slalom skiers get more then a one and done experience.

 

"If you have a slalom, trick, jump Nationals and a separate slalom Nationals, who is the National champion slalom skier?"

Currently we crown two national champions anyway with a event champion and a rankings list champion. In slalom it was proposed that a combination rankings list and national event placement dictate the national champion. How that would be implemented again is a loose end that would require definition and acceptance.

 

 

"great, i have to go to two nationals instead of one..."

The multi-national format will not fit into everyone's needs and acceptance. the goal is to open up more opportunity for all qualified. Some may find the format a better selection as the concept suggests the second slalom super nat's to be around labor day to take advantage of the three day weekend. like it or not we make far too many rules and policy's that encourage the few rather then the many in our sport. More then likely there would be many that would attend both event's. But we will probably never know as to many in our leadership are already against this type of ideology and forward business thinking.

 

Again contact your state rep's. Contact your regional director's let them know your position on any and all items or issues you deem important or better yet come get involved and attend these meetings.

At this writing we still do not have a site for a national championship and your counsel and AWSA leaders need your input.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sunperch]

@Jody_Seal You are providing great information, thanks for the statistics! I would love to ski in a Super Nationals with slalom only if I was only thinking of myself. (No, I am not calling anyone selfish).

 

@Horton We have attended 5 of the last 6 Nationals and have had a blast at all of them. As mentioned in other threads, we make it into a family vacation. Idaho was one of the most fun, yet! My concerns stem from how to keep it fun for the kids (the future of our sport) and thus keeping them interested in the sport. What is the point if the kids are not having fun???? How about a compromise, have a Nationals with kids being able to 3 event, then slalom for adults only. Maybe that would keep the families from having to divide and to keep the friends together for the kids. I feel like the event itself is not the problem, the problem is having the LOC pay out way too much to USAWS and the crazy requirements like paying for hotels for all officials, only allowing 3 event drivers, etc... I just asked my 14 y.o daughter what she thought about the idea. Her response was that we would need to go to both Nationals then, the slalom only for her to ski and the 3 event "so I could see all of my friends. I want to see my friends all ski."

[Horton]

@sunperch your experience with your kids is what i remember from my childhood. Unfortunately i think that in 2016 you are in the minority. If the sport was healthy today it would be different.

[ski6jones]

I would be fine with two different Nats as described but when I read @sunperch comments the thought of the youngest participants of our sport finding it less desirable for any reason gives me pause. They are saying the social aspect of the sport is most important to them. I think Collegiate skiers have the same experience. That's already why I go to tournaments, although it wasn't why I started skiing tournaments.

[elr]

How about 3 round slalom, 1 round trick, 1 round jump. OA uses first round slalom. Single event judges/drivers for slalom rounds 2 & 3. LOC/Sponsors benefit from higher participation.

[klindy]

@elr wouldn't that make the tournament like 2+ times longer. It's already nearly a week long on two lakes.

[skierjp]

It's 5 days at Okeeheelee with 4 lakes and 1 designated practice lake!

[Horton]

This concept is wide open for possible tweaks. I it is logical (to me) that slalom skiers who are parents of 3 event skiers would go to the 3 event Nationals and compete for the slalom title at the 3 event Nationals. In other words 1 or 2 or 3 event skiers would be welcome at the 3 event - 1 round Nationals. At the same time 1 event slalom skiers could chose to go to a multi round slalom only Nationals. You choose and hopefully more skiers get the event they want.

 

The only downside is that there are two tournaments and the meaning of "National Champion" is diluted a bit.

[Jody_Seal]

In the concept there would be nothing stopping a skier from attending both events if they wished and met the qualification standard. Currently we already have two National champions. A event champion and a rankings champion.

Again the concept was submitted to the AWSA board solely as just that a concept and to address complaints and issues pertaining to the Championship series. Even if it is implemented there will still be naysayers and discontentment. Geographic's will still come into play no mater what direction is taken. However I am some what encouraged after looking at the poll that the concept does have merit on BOS.

Again the door is wide open to how, what and when. Putting anything more into it than suggestion or input is grasping on to the unknown..

[elr]

@klindy -- hopefully it will make the tournament twice as long with many more participants with more to do. Hopefully, everyone in the family can slalom a lot so travel cost/ride gets more reasonable. A two lake site may not work anymore. But the economics for the LOC and sponsors would in theory get better. We need to increase participation or change the financial arrangement so that the hosts are not working for $.50/hour while their non-skiing neighbors are getting angry at them because they can't use the lake they are paying for.

[Jody_Seal]

Thanks everyone that took the time to read this concept and voted. of the ones that voted looks like at least on BOS this concept has merit. AWSA knows it needs and has to make direction changes.

 

One of the first things and in many others opinions is for our sport to get an identity and maintain it. to be classified as a towed watersport as USAWS and some in industry does not do our sport any good. We are equated with air chair, show skiing , barefoot and many others. Competitive tournament waterskiing or 3 event is our sport the others are pastimes with far different dynamics.

 

Again thanks for the votes and input, I know our fearless leader is reading them and soaking it all in.

[unksskis]

It's a good short term idea, but will lead to the further demise of jump and trick, and send traditional 3 event Nationals off to the pasture. Of course you want to accommodate and attract the majority of your attending body, however I wonder how many additional skiers would actually attend a multi-round Nationals, or they would just find the next excuse as to why they didn't attend. Some people just need an excuse, they're comfortable with skiing at home, or uncomfortable not always being at the top. Nationals needs to be more focused about quality, and less about quantity of skiers.

[klindy]

I think any idea is worth exploring. I would agree with @unksskis that it may be a better short term idea. It may be a good place to start but I also would worry about the demise of trick and jump and, by default, overall.

[Wish]

Not to change the subject but as hard as it is to get access to slalom courses for the masses having gone to private sites, it's gotta be almost impossible for jumpers or wanna be jumpers to get access. I've seen more pulled up on banks roting away then I've seen in the water. And forget about ever seeing one on public water ways (liability, municipalities). Perhaps the demise of three event is already baked in. I see trick (especially if modified wakeboards were allowed) having a much greater chance and even more so then slalom with wake boats all the rage. We're pretty much doing wakeboard tricks anyway. Just thinkn out loud.

[RazorRoss3]

Trick is certainly the easiest access as far as equipment needs. An amateur (myself) can use virtually and rope on nearly any boat and have some fun, no course or specialized equipment outside of the ski required. I will say of the three event it is among the most frustrating to practice and not always the most fun to drive for. Pull skier up >>> skier attempts trick >>> skier falls on trick >>> boat goes back to skier >>> rinse >>> wash >>> repeat. Great event, great for building balance, handle control and core strength which is transferable across all three events.

[MikeT]

I think we should preserve the Nationals as it is. No one hardly is going to go to Regionals and Two Nationals expect maybe @Lpskier. You the man John. But seriously now I'll echo @unksski to save space and I wrote in another thread what @jcamp wrote about the days we had 1000 competitors in the Nationals. Demographics and baby boomers may have been one reason but I think what brought more skiers out to compete was watching the pro tour on ESPN. What a surge in participation. I was Men 2 in the 80's and it was great skiing in large groups in each division even in local tournaments. That surge in membership has survived even today. Men 5 Slalom, that same group of skiers still the biggest. I always wonder if an investment in Pro Skiing would do for the sport today like it did back then. The Big Dawg is a better packaged product than the pro tour. How hard would it be to at least link all the tournaments into a series and championship. It's on the vendors of the sport to make that investment if they want more customers. It doesn't help when a ski boat cost $70K either.

So whether it's the demographics or the Pro Tour or to much travel it's so hard to say what would grow the Nationals. I just don't agree with the 2 nationals idea. I would add 5 more regions to cut down the regional travel first. I'd rather dilute the regionals if anything and maintain the quality and prestige of competing in one Nationals. It's not for everyone. Multi round tournaments, fun and friends is available all summer long at local and regional level. I wouldn't be motivated to go to Nationals any more because I could ski two rounds or three. It's the one time of year that you get to see how you stack up against the best skiers in the country.

PS I proposed the following idea, which is the way that I run the NE Slalom with @Than, in another thread and that is to mirror the golf and ski model of using handicaps to equalize the skiers. Anyone can win and you ski in big divisions in local tournaments. Men women and kids in the same group. Also consider performance based divisions. Integrate handicap division within the Nationals itself. Could this increase participation by merely adding a handicap division. Buick sponsors a national Golf Handicap Amateur tournament. Golf utilizes both in local tournaments. NASTAR is total handicap. Again anyone can win. Consider both. Someone should take the time to see how well those sports draw. I'd be willing to bet their participation is not much better on a percentage basis than ours. Keep 1 Nationals!

 

[Horton]

@MikeT The days of TV were great but those days are gone. Almost all of the Pro and BigDawg events I have attended in the last 10 years have not had hardly any spectators on the beach. If folks will not come out to watch a live event in their home town then what is the point?

 

I do not think the sport is doomed but I am sure that a Pro tour is not the answer. Don't get me wrong I would love to see more successful pro events but history tells me that pro events will not bring crowds of skiers back to skiing.

[LeonL]

This is somewhat off topic, but briefly mentioned already; we need to get AWSA out of USAWS. To my knowledge all sports disciplines were merged to present a unified front with the ultimate goal of Olympic recognition and participation. Many dollars were spent (wasted) in this effort. It''s apparent that AWSA is carirying the other disciplines on its back. It's kinda like all the tax dollars spent to support the arts, if the public won't support these arts by tickets sales, etc., it's not popular enough to survive. Ergo, if the other disciplines aren't self supporting maybe they don't need a national structure. AWSA should secede and become an entity of its own. Why should our membership dollars go to support other "towed water sports"? If this sounds selfish, well I guess it just is selfish, but in a fight for survival......

Example: the local,orchestra needs tax dollars to survive. They do concerts. Kenny Chesney, Taylor Swift, etc. do concerts too. Get my drift? Or as a well known FL M8 skier says "Ya follow me?"

[Jody_Seal]

@LeonL Great post. This sentiment seems to be the general direction from most AWSA members I have contact with. The ones that refuse to realize the USAWS failure are either the ones that were the architect's of this disaster or the ones that are in charge of USAWS.

As a director I have maintained in most all my correspondence within the AWSA that we must not be lumped in as "towed watersports" and we need to have an identity that maintains separation as a sport. Three event or competitive tournament waterskiing is dynamically different then wake sports or show and hydro sports. Time to separate from USAWS and control our own direction and destiny.

 

@Horton

Last year we tried to take the rule out of our rule book that reads "there shall be no distinction between amateur and pro". We were not trying to identify but just take it out of the rule book.

Having that statement out of the rule book opens doors for our sanctioning body to get behind a true professional level. Sadly some very influential short sighted people with inaccurate information shot it down and the sheep in the room voted with these short sighted people.

[walleye]

@Jody_Seal @LeonL Exactly! Jeff is our president not the ice skater.