Is there a Zero Off Easter egg?

[Horton]

I have not been able to confirm what I am about to tell you and there is a chance that it is a prank.

 

What I have been told is that if you can put ZO in trick mode and then enter your slalom speed and ABC/123 setting. What you get is a whole new set of slalom settings and if reports are to be believed these settings are very good. I am told at least a few pros like it a lot.

 

The problem is ZO does not capture the times. I am told that the times/speeds are good but ZO is not programed to capture them. Heck! ZO thinks you are tricking back there.

 

The disclaimer again. My original source on this is a joker and I have not tried it. The whole idea makes me nervous. I would have tried it out this weekend but I tweaked my shoulder and did not ski. If you try this and the boat flings your sorry ass all the way across the lake it is not my fault.

 

[MattP]

Hmmm will need further testing.

@horton take video.

[Horton]

@mattp yea I know. I imagine turning for the gate, ZO thinks I should be doing a front flip and I end up in shore.

[RichardDoane]

@eleeski always recommends Tricking in C3, so if/when you video your slalom test in Trick mode, please put it on C3

[RazorRoss3]

@Horton, April 1st is about 5 months and 9 days away, stop trying to hurt people.

[Jody_Seal]

This is not the first time I have heard this and have even tried it! No timing for one so a external source is required for timing if you want it. Yes for some this might feel good as there is not any over speed coming into the course as there is with slalom mode. More of a flat line approach into the course. Have even utilized the control in jump mode with and with out the switch, I am sure there are skiers out there that would like that pull also! But then again they probably would like falling out of tree's!

[Gloersen]

Using ZO in Trick mode for Slalom skiing, speed based, I believe does not make use of the system’s accelerometers; i.e., it is strictly speed based. The selected A-B-C/1-2-3 settings in trick mode really only apply to the letters (accelerometer feedback data for selected clipping values 1-2-3 is not in play in trick mode); skier pull quality is essentially just A-B-C.

 

Of course a skier can select Recreational Trick mode and choose an RPM based speed setting, e.g., 3540 rpm, but no pull type setting is available, so not sure how the engine responds with the throttle (default B?). But there's not much good to come of slalom skiing in RPM mode (unless a PP equipped boat with dysfunctional SG).

 

Just doesn’t seem like much point in pulling (if that much different/"better") a slalom skier in ZO Trick mode if the pull is purely speed based (no g’s used). It’d be interesting to see what the ABT is just out of curiosity, but as has been stated, no timing data.

 

Pretty sure this is the case, could be wrong.

 

Edit –

Also, it’s possible (conjecture) that ZO’s new ECI antenna, with a higher sampling rate, may allow a quicker response using purely speed based feedback compared to older ZO versions (Garmin pucks). This might obviate what would otherwise be too much variation in speed; might be fun to try behind a DI boat, depends on one’s buoy chasing goals.

 

[Horton]

@Gloersen all I know is the skier what told me about it is a legit pro skier and he thinks it is better at shorter line lengths. Might be a bad idea to practice this way since you can not get it in a tournament but it is interesting that there could be a setting in there that is better than slalom mode.

[ozski]

I heard this exact story less than acweek ago.

[Gloersen]

@Horton - concur, edit above. I personally feel ZO has much room to evolve for the better.

[Horton]

@Gloersen IDK. The way I understand it some florida skiers have been screwing with this since the first days of ZO. Who knows....

[Jody_Seal]

Yes the Accelerometers are active in trick mode, maybe not sampling as fast as in slalom but active none the less.

@Horton you are right about some Florida Skiers trying this. This has been kicked around here by not only a few Florida skiers, the first I heard about it was right around 2008 by a skier from Georgia.

[Horton]

I am actually sort of disappointed that it is a real thing. I originally thought it was a practical joke. The pro skier who I will not name (but is pictured below) keeps trying to get me to try it. If it had thrown me on shore it would have made a good story.

 

 

[Gloersen]

At slower trick speeds and no need for ABT, modulating the throttle response with accelerometers wouldn't be as critical.

 

If G's data is used in Trick mode and the clipping values remain the same for the given 1-2-3 as in Slalom mode, then other than the gate speed = to baseline speed, the pull should feel the same.

 

If clipping values are indeed used and different, it sure would be good to know what those differences are, if reputable skiers find them "better".

 

However, if the ABT's are not in tolerance, why practice in this mode? Again it would be helpful to know.

 

The fact that pro skiers, or the like, are practicing or trying this, continues to show a need for further evolution of the speed control for the better.

 

This is among the most frustrating aspects of ZO; a complete lack of representation by Enovation Controls in educating a rather sophisticated, highly particular, if not quite peculiar (based on photo above), subset of consumer-users of their product! A reasonable technical manual publication would help.

[ozski]

That thing has a beard so I'm guessing Asher or Parsons.

[MISkier]

Parsons' nickname is a match for that character.

[Gloersen]

well heck, maybe ZO can throw in 9 more settings choices; X-Yeti-Z/1-2-3 to emulate ZO trick mode slalom skiing.

 

Add the "+" option to each of those while were at it...

[bassfooter]

@ZipZapPaddyWhack @eleeski says to use either A1 or C3 because "...B2 doesn't do anything well". I've been waiting for his hip to heal before giving him a hard time, but by now he's probably checking out the fresh snow and not paying any attention to us anyway.

[eleeski]

@Gloersen I guarantee you that the accelerometers work in trick mode. No idea how it feels for slalom though. C hammers you like a super spectra rope. Not sure I'd like that. A is spongy soft which might give a comfortable slalom pull with wide speed swings. B sucks no matter what.

 

@bassfooter I'm not cleared for any skiing yet. Frustrating. No snow yet so that's not frustrating - yet. I am cleared to coach and have been out with the college kids both days last weekend. I'll stand by B sucks no matter what.

 

A setting that does not come in overspeeded might be OK for some skiers. Might be another worthy setting.

 

Eric

[Horton]

@eleeski please stick to trick coaching. "B sucks"? Really? Stop. That is ridiculous.

[LLUSA]

I've skied this way since ZO came out, per Jeff Rodgers, the boat seems to be less aggressive on the 200lb plus/extreme pull type skier/that loads the boat and is better than in any current setting. I could run passes that I didn't have a chance with A,B,or C

[LLUSA]

ZO was built by 145lb-165lb skiers to their needs

[Ralph Lee]

@LLUSA Doesn't it screw you up when you get to a tournament?

[skidawg]

I pulled a skier last week using this and it seemed to work just fine. I have not tried it yet

[eleeski]

@Horton ZO discussions tend to be engineering exercises. I do have an engineering degree. And I was a good enough slalom skier to hold an area slalom record and build skis that qualified for Nationals and Worlds. I'll stand by the relevance of my B sucks comment.

 

C is a simulation of the most responsive hand drivers or PP Classic with a switch. A simulates PP Classic with no switch which many skiers use as their training setup. B is an artifact of the programming to split the response parameters between A and C.

 

Options are nice. For that reason, B might suit a particular skier's style. But that is something that a skier should experiment to figure out, not take as the default.

 

Regarding using trick setting, I can't see how not using the slight overspeed the slalom programming commands at the entry gates could help the skier. The boat will just have to work harder to make good times. Perhaps that harder work by the boat gives the larger skiers the pull they need. Doesn't * do something similar? Still, options are nice so if it gets good times and is an approved setting, enjoy. But not as a default.

 

Eric

[Horton]

@eleeski make up your mind.

 

B might suit a particular skier's style. But that is something that a skier should experiment to figure out, not take as the default.

 

B sucks no matter what.

 

 

[ALPJr]

So should I be studying this if I plan to ski my first tourney since 2006 next summer? I'm hoping for a pull somewhere in between a Flightcraft XLOB and a 97 ProStar with PP :)

[eleeski]

I haven't had a good ride behind B, so it sucks. If @Horton likes B better, that just proves it sucks!

[Horton]

@eleeski so everything you post is completely random

[RAWSki]

I am still waiting for the AccuSki Setting. One and Done! I have enough to think about with my often crappy skiing, I don't want to think about more than a dozen possible boat settings.

[Roger]

@LLUSA - have you used an external timer? Maybe it feels good to the pro skier because he's getting a 16.19... I've never tried this but we might still have an external timer around here somewhere.

[LLUSA]

@Rodger, No I haven't, but it's not the speed it's the way the gas comes on and gets off of you, you never feel like the boat is running on you which A&C make you feel, C is way too hard and A just stays on a big person

[bassfooter]

@Gloersen I agree with @eleeski that the accelerometers are active in trick mode. @eleeski loads up the line and the throttle responds. Not a lot, but you can hear it. He loves it, and was too polite to complain when I gave him a crappy ride behind our SN with Stargazer, aka "Starguesser".

[Gloersen]

Variations in speed using GPS data only would be sufficient in itself to initiate brisk throttle up/down responses based on the Kd gains (A-B-C) at trick ski speeds, assuming a reasonable GPS signal response rate.

 

Point here remains the same; if slalom skiing in ZO trick mode offers a better pull with legit ABT’s (as of yet undisclosed), then it would be quite informative to know what parameters are being used. For example, knowledge of the A-B-C/1-2-3 parameters (used in slalom mode shown below) is very informative and helpful when trying to understand what one feels behind the boat.

 

I’ve emailed Enovation Controls inquiring as to what parameters are used by ZO in trick mode:

 

support at zerogps dot com

The more email inquiries received maybe the greater likelihood of response.

 

 

 

[Horton]

@Gloersen did you tell then it is my fault you are asking?

[Horton]

FYI I also heard talk that + might go away since almost no one uses it.

[Ralph Lee]

I love the plus setting. Lol

[Gloersen]

@Horton - implicitly.

[Roger]

I drove 14 tournaments in 2016 and not one skier used plus...

[klindy]

I also use the + settings.

[skihacker]

C2+, always.

[Jody_Seal]

I drove nearly 20 tournaments in then last year and not a plus skier did I pull. I pulled a plus request in 2015, he was about A 160 pound 36 mph skiing into 32 off, I asked him if he enjoyed the 16.05 he was getting for times. The next round he omitted the plus mode and ran a couple at 35 off .... PB!

[John Brooks]

@klindy You only need plus for your deep water start! :-)

 

[LeonL]

I certainly see no need for + to "go away", as in a software change. It's just an option, don't use it if you don't want it. Since it's already there and some people use it, however small the number, just let it lay where it is.

[Ralph Lee]

230 pounds - A3+ is the only setting I've been consistent with. 2nd year in and still 4 buoys short of my PP PB

[LeonL]

Slalom in trick mode may be to the liking of some, I've never tried it. However if you intend to ski tournaments, you ain't gonna get that kind of pull, so it's kind of a moot point.

[Horton]

Listen to this....

 

https://youtu.be/l-XcojcZ3EU

[Bruce_Butterfield]

Sure "sounds" a lot more in sync with the skier than normal ZO.

[Horton]

My CRUDE explanation of what the Yeti told me is - with Trick mode ZO gives all the extra gas required to keep the speed constant. With Slalom mode a specific and limited amount of gas is added and maintained until the boat gets back to the target speed.

 

If I understand this right - in Slalom mode if the skier hammers the boat the gas just stays on longer. If the skier does the same thing in Trick mode the ZO gives a more gas but gets off the skier a lot faster. Wish I was skiing. Trick mode sounds like fun to me.

 

 

[Wish]