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Cannot get up because of rear toe binding


dxs206
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I'm trying to get up on slalom ski for the first time. Each time just as the boat starts speeding up, my rear foot gets yanked out by the water pressure and I lose balance as a result. What am I doing wrong? Is my only option to switch to double boots? Any advice is appreciated. Thank you
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+1 on knees together. Just as the boat goes suck your rear foot under you and push and hold on the front foot. Keep your butt low until the ski planes.

 

I ski with a half rear boot, I can start both ways, but find both feet in less work for me than dragging.

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Having skied double boots for pretty much forever, i was considering trying to go back to a rear toe, for possible advantages. Long story short, I’m happy with an R-style.

What it showed me on the pull up, all pressure needs to be on the front foot. I haven’t missed a pull up in years, until I tried a rear toe again. Whether it’s dragging it in the water or tucking under, seems to still be the same principle. Really push on that front foot.

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People who are just learning water start often misunderstand advise - "pressure on front leg" as a stretching leg forward.

Should be read: Pressure on front leg whereas knee still bent and brought to the chest...

May be for lighter skiers it is not the same, but for big guys stretching leg is a deadly move.

IMO...

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Yes, I agree with @Oldboyll, extending the front leg straight and getting your upper body pulled forward is a sure why to tear your hamstring. I've actually found it easier to push with both feet, pushing my body away from the boat, instead of letting my body get pulled forward. I'm 6'1", 205 lbs, on a 69" ski and can get up without my face getting wet. I've been thinking about trying to show someone new how to get up using the following: Have them place their feet on the engine box, hang on to the handle with the rope going around the pylon and back to the rear platform where I'd be holding on to the rope. I'd make the rope tight and have them say hit it. I would then fall away from the boat, which would pull them forward, and they'd have to use their legs to push against the motor box while they are standing up, and pull me back to vertical. This might give them an idea of what it will feel like. I haven't tried this yet, however.
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I'm already trying with deep V handle. My first try with regular rope failed miserably as I was flipping to the left side all the time (opposite to my front leg).

 

I got lots of useful tips on this thread. Thank you all! I will definitely try them out next weekend on the lake. I'm determined to get up on one ski. This sport is too cool to miss out on.

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@oldjeep

Dragging a leg got me an hernia.I did ski a lot of sets 2008-09-10 in a short northeast season and pretty sure that dragging a leg while getting up so many times was the cause of it (I'm bad and fall a lot! :smiley: ).

Believe it or not,i now found it much easier to get up both feet in with a nice pop-up from my driver!

Always been a RTP guy.

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As you can see, there are many opinions and many factors to consider (boat, driver, one foot in vs 2 feet in, etc). You’ll have to experiment and try to figure out how to make the laws of physics work to your advantage. Use google and YouTube as much as possible, have someone take a video of you and study it (post it here if you want). Personally, this site helped me a lot. It’s a journey, persevere and you’ll get there.

 

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If you drag a leg, be sure the leg that is dragging is extended backwards, and that you're not pushing against the boat's pull with the other foot. I've seen guys that have might as well have both feet in, with how they were pushing against the boat. With one foot out, you should be stepping with your body weight forward onto the ski, similar to how you would step up onto a bench. There is way less resistance with one foot out, and therefore works better with low horsepower boats.
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I have always gotten up with both feet in, in a toe loop. I had an issue once when I made some modifications to the RTP (it has a velcro tightness adjustment) my rear foot kept slipping out. Turns out it was a little loose, along with the foot bed being a little slicker. Once I played with the tightness to get it just right all was good again.
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Based on your comment about flipping to the left side - make sure the rope is going "in the middle" that being if you have your back foot out put it where 2 skis would be and the rope should be between your legs. And if you have the change to just float around in the water with your ski for awhile when you're not about to ski do so, get comfortable with it do it with a ski handle to make sure you can stop paddling to stay lined up.

 

Beyond that, I always tell skiers I want them to look where they're going ie. up at the boat not at their boot and I don't usually let people say hit it when they're learning

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The RTP is not what’s causing you not to get up. If you tried to go to a double boot it would most likely be harder for you to get up. As others have suggested, try with your foot out and drag it behind you for balance. I’d also try a wider ski. It could also be the driver either giving you too much power and pulling you over the front or less likely they aren’t giving you enough power.
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Something that may really help....If you are R-Ft Fwd, the rope being on the Left side is going to want to pull you over to the left. Start with knees to the chest, push hard with the front foot to resist the pull, and "LEAN" slightly to the "RIGHT" pulling hard with the right arm to stabilize you.

 

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Couple other thoughts for you:

 

1. I agree on the lean left if you are Left foot forward, lean right for RFF, BUT... only the ski should lean to one side, not your upper body. Once the driver puts the boat in gear the pull will naturally straighten you out.

 

2. As a general rule if you fail to get up, pay attention to what is happening.

 

If you get pulled out over the front of the ski - this means your trying to stand too early or not maintaining a strong static posture until the ski planes.

 

If the handle gets pulled out of your hands you are too far back on it/fighting the boat.

 

3. As others have said a good driver is key, put it in gear and then a nice gradual takeoff.

 

4. Be persistent! Learning to deep water start is not easy for many people. While some annoying people like my newphew got up on his 3rd try ever, others take months to figure it out.

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I did follow your generous advices and got up today on the my 3rd try. This was on my new ski HO Freeride rated for my weight unlike the combo I've been trying with before. I used rear toe but both of my legs were firmly in. Once I figured out the right technique I would get up every single time with relative ease. Unfortunately at the end of my 3rd successful run I hit a rogue wave and fell hard from the ski hurting my tendons on the front leg. I was at the top of excitement but now I can barely walk. Where do I go from here? Of-course I need to heal myself first but then what? I can see 3 possible options 1) quit slalom while I'm "ahead" and ski slowly on 2 combos for the rest of my life 2) find an easy release binding like downhill skis have so I can venture again with better equipment 3) find ski school and take professional lessons so I know what the hell I'm doing next time around. Perhaps combination of 2 and 3? Do you have any insight or experience you can share? I'm 48 y.o. around 215 lbs and in great physical shape except for my right leg as of today of-course.
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I followed your generous advices and got up on one ski today on my 3rd try. This was on my new HO Freeride rated for my weight rather than single combo I've been trying on before. I used rear toe but both of my feet were firmly tucked in. Once I figured out the right technique I kept getting up with relative ease. At the end of my 3rd successful run I suddenly hit a rogue wave and hurt my tendons on the front leg. I quite literally came crushing down from being on top of excitement to barely walking. Where do I go from here? The following 3 options come to mind 1) quit slalom while I'm ahead and ski combos for the rest of my life 2) find some kind of easy release bindings like downhills skis have and come back better prepared 3) take professional slalom lessons so I know what I'm doing next time. Any advice or insight you can share. I'm almost 49 around 215 lbs and generally in great physical shape except for today's incident of-course.
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While I'm a huge fan of releasing bindings I think this is easier than that. You have lots of learning to go. First treat your ankle if it's better already great. Next which binding are you using? The current HO has cords and such. Don't cinch them tight particularly around the ankle.

 

Your crash is one that you'll get better avoiding both by observing water condition and through stronger technique.

 

You hit ice your third time down the mountain and crashed. Not time to throw in the towel or buy a ton of gear. Lessons never hurt but once you get sorted youll ride that out.

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@dxs206 don't quit, I had trouble at the start too, I was in my late 20s and had skied behind an underpowered outboard my whole life with combos and I'd just drop one. I wanted to ski in the course so I got the right set up and got some lessons... Alot of lessons... Lake skiing habits die hard as I had learned.

 

I run a releaseable front and an RTP now but was running an lace up front and RTP when I was learning. I find it way easier to get up with one foot out. If you're left foot forward allow the ski to kind of tilt a bit to the left, it will increase the pull against the boat and give you more lift, the opposite if you are RFF.

 

Keep your leading knee in tight to your chest and keep your arms straight, you're not trying to pull yourself up you're trying to rise up with the ski.

 

The other thing is when you're learning to get up if you have a wakeboard tower or a high pylon for wakeboarding, attach the rope to that at the start and have it ahorter, it's much easier than having it at the normal pylon height. If you don't, then all you can do is shorten the rope and that alone will make it way easier until you get the muscle memory down.

 

I'm sure if you took a lesson you'd get it really quick, once you learn the fundamentals it's really not that hard. You just can't get in your own head.

 

I started getting really into slalom later in life than most as well and frustration is the name of the game, but you have to just stay positive and not let it overtake you and believe me it's worth it!

 

 

Good luck

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