Baller jercrane Posted June 22, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 22, 2018 I just got heart breaking news from my dealer. I am supposed to take delivery of a new SN 200 OB tomorrow. In the process of loading for delivery they saw dark spot on the hull near the “step” upon inspection they pressed on it and were able to essentially push a finger through a small pocket. They said it had a void in the gelcoat and needs to be repaired. They are trying to get it repaired overnight and deliver late tomorrow or Sunday. My question is should I be worried about the overall integrity of this particular 200 hull? Like does one void mean there might be 20 others hidden about because something went wrong systematically in manufacturing. Or is this just a thing that happens once in awhile with a new boat. Sorry if this seems silly. Never bought a new boat. Been a used boat guy my entire life. I mean I know I’ve got a warrantee and all that but ... ugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted June 22, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 22, 2018 Count your blessings. If we could all have such first world problems. I've never heard of a boat falling apart. Sleep well. On second thought, the boat is shot. Send it to me for proper disposal. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jercrane Posted June 22, 2018 Author Baller Share Posted June 22, 2018 @eleeski I know I know I appreciate the fact that I am lucky enough to have this problem. I get it. I’m a spoiled rotten brat for even suggesting this is something to fuss over. I just dropped more money than I have on anything other than my education and my house. So it feels crummy. Heart breaking is probably a bit of hyperbole but this is the internet. That’s how we roll here. I’m not worried about it falling apart. I’m more worried about finding lots more voids over the coming years and having to constantly get repairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BraceMaker Posted June 22, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 22, 2018 It's a tough pill to swallow for the coin. Is it at the dealer or the factory? Its actually not a gel void it's an area the hull wasn't laminated against the gel which would worry me as there could be more but also they're going to thicken the gel to fill the pocket. Thick areas in gel tends to crack But possibly part of their normal QC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jercrane Posted June 22, 2018 Author Baller Share Posted June 22, 2018 @BraceMaker it’s at Nautique dealer. They are doing the repairs too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller oldjeep Posted June 22, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 22, 2018 Id reject delivery unless they are giving a substantial discount. I wouldn't pay a car dealer new car money for a car they had to repaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller vtmecheng Posted June 22, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 22, 2018 Look at it this way, if you were buying a car at that price would you take delivery knowing it already needed defect correction at the dealership? I would ask for a different car. Why would a boat be any different? If they give you a good discount because it's blemished then, after a really close inspection, I'd consider taking ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted June 22, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 22, 2018 Sorry for my lack of sensitivity. My comments were a bit out of line and I apologize. The boat will ski fine and give you many years of enjoyment. You will put many more dings in it over the years. Sincere advice, don't stress over how family and friends treat the boat. It's a tool for having fun on the water and neither you nor your skiers will have fun if everyone is worried about touching the boat wrong. If you are taking it to boat shows, it's compromised. (Maybe. Anything can be fixed to boat show quality.) Is that what you got the boat for? Enjoy your new boat! Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BraceMaker Posted June 22, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 22, 2018 @vtmecheng agreed. For now it's Nautiques issue not yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted June 22, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 22, 2018 Going insensitive again, some of this thinking is why I don't sell my skis. If you don't want a boat, lost too much money in the stock downturn or just having buyer's remorse then use this as an excuse to back out of the deal. But if you want a boat, worry about what matters. Getting friends and family on the water. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitecaps Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 I'm certain that most hulls are removed from their molds with imperfections either in the gel coat which would be easily seen or in the laminate which would be harder to see. Most are corrected at that time and at the factory. It is easy to see how an air pocket or void could occur and not be seen at the time during fabrication. I applaud your dealership for finding the imperfection and correcting a blemish that many may not have even seen. Those who say "refuse to accept it "most likely have had more serious flaws in their own hulls that got corrected and they dont even know it. After touring the factory in person to see our Nautique on the assembly line, I'd have no worries. I have also done fiberglass and gelcoat myself on my own boats and I'd have no worries with a repair done correctly- proper repairs are not prone to future problems. Enjoy the boat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller vtmecheng Posted June 23, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 23, 2018 I think there's a difference between Nautique fixing it in the factory and the dealership doing the fix. Maybe I'm mistaken but I would think Nautique will do a better job to ensure it's structural and clean looking. They have the chemicals and the knowledge to do it right. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klindy Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 If it’s “near the step” is the blemish in the hull or the top deck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller vtmecheng Posted June 23, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 23, 2018 How big is this void? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jercrane Posted June 23, 2018 Author Baller Share Posted June 23, 2018 @klindy it’s in the bottom of the hull. I don’t know what you technically call the little step that’s under the boat. @eleeski I want the boat very badly! I have been dreaming about it all week long. This is most definitely not a way to talk myself out of it. Problem is it was a stick boat the dealer had on site. It was not a custom order. So I “think” I got a very good price already. I want to believe it’s going to be just fine after repair. @vtmecheng not sure on size. They said they could push it in with a finger but haven’t sent pics yet. I believe it is actually being repaired tonight. They said they were going to work on it over night. I also sold my current MC 197 already and buyer arrives Sunday for pickup. Refusing delivery will mean no ski boat for me for probably the entire summer. That’s a really really bad option. Sigh. I guess I’ll just have a good look at it when it finally does get here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad_Scott Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Voids in gelcoat are pretty common on sharp lines of a hull. I wouldn’t worry too much about it. If they are doing the repair they will likely check the other edges for additional voids People often have voids and never know it or think they hit something. I have had voids before and repaired by a good gel coat guy. No other problems afterwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller dnewton Posted June 23, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 23, 2018 I’m a MC guy that takes my boats to a nautique dealer. While I was having some gel work done this winter. I was looking around and he was fixing a g23 that the boat next to him had caught fire. At the time of drop off he was doing glass work on it and when I picked mine up, he had finished it. I thought it was a different boat. I assumed they had totaled the one I first saw. I would have good faith that they will have you fixed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Wayne Posted June 23, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 23, 2018 Is this your regular dealer and will you be using them in the future? It really seems that the dealer makes a difference in your experience on any perticular boat. If they caught this, disclosed that it was there and are fixing it I would think if there are other warranty issues they will support you to get it fixed. I would just do a very thorough inspection on your own and do a water test before accepting it. After a few sets behind it you will forget about this anyway. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller liquid d Posted June 23, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 23, 2018 You will never see it, and nobody will ever be able to find it if they didn't know where it was, and it won't affect anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller liquid d Posted June 23, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 23, 2018 And...you can always cover it in Sea Dek! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted June 23, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 23, 2018 You would be surprised how many cars arrive at a dealership dinged or dented from transport to the dealership. Or once the dealership cleans them up they find paint defects. They get fixed/painted on the spot and then go to the customer or on the lot. It happens. Same with boats. Most boat dealerships don't have their own gelcoat/glass guys. They align themselves with a known good gelcoat guy in their area and pay by the job. Which is fine. A good gelcoat guy can repair what you'd consider catastrophic damage and make it new. In most cases, I'd pick a gelcoat guy that has repaired stuff daily over a factory tech. The factory guys typically only get to repair cosmetic stuff. A good gelcoat guy in the gulf coast(where I am) has typically repaired structural stuff like an entire transoms being ripped out, holes in hulls from stumps, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Andre Posted June 23, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 23, 2018 ///Note to self.Never buy @jercrane 's boat... J/K .Your boat is gonna be as good as,well...new! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller vtmecheng Posted June 23, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 23, 2018 The more I think about this, the more I think it depends on the size and location. If it's small and the end result looks like it was never there, just go ski and be happy they were honest with you. If it's big and looks like poop then I'd refuse. Just me though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted June 23, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 23, 2018 Gel coat repairs are so easy to make and the factories provide the gel coat color formulas. Like I said, I've seen boats with the entire transom knocked out after hitting a stuck and the repair was invisible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller oldjeep Posted June 23, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 23, 2018 @BoneHead _ but would you pay full price for that boat? It is one thing to mess up your boat and have it repaired, and another to buy something that is pre-f'd up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jercrane Posted June 23, 2018 Author Baller Share Posted June 23, 2018 The dealership has actually been amazing about it. They stayed up all last night to repair it. They did a temporary fix last night that does not match the exact white but is structurally sound. They are going to get that to completely color matched over the winter but didn’t want to keep me off the water. They delivered the boat on time as promised today. Dropped the delivery charge and have committed to come back in the fall pick the boat up, winterize it, store it for free and give the hull a full inspection and do the refinish work and then deliver in the spring free of charge. Note the dealer is 3.5 hours from my lake. They did a fantastic job despite the lack of color match. Big fan of Adirondack Marine now. Oh yeah and the boat is amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Andre Posted June 23, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 23, 2018 Great for you! We love new boats pics by the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jercrane Posted June 23, 2018 Author Baller Share Posted June 23, 2018 @Andre coming soon. Pouring rain up here so I got one quick test drive and then wrapped her up until tomorrow morning. First ski tomorrow at dawn. Tucked in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moffattra Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Not questioning you @jercrane , just curious what people do for new boat/engine break in procedure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller hammerski Posted June 24, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 24, 2018 Nothing to worry about, we were one of the top Nautique/Centurion dealers in the country for 20 years. Happens more than most people realize and a simple fix. Enjoy your new boat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jercrane Posted June 24, 2018 Author Baller Share Posted June 24, 2018 @Moffattra the PCM manual has a pretty specific procedure. Goes something like this... Warm up Wide open throttle for less than a minute 2800 - 3000 rpm for 30 minutes continuous varying by 100 rpm every few minutes Idle Wide open throttle 2800 -3000 again for a few minute Repeat every few hours during first 5 hours Dealership said slalom skiing is actually fine as long as you are doing sets. Not long continuous skis. You basically just want to avoid two things. Long periods at a single RPM and wide open throttle for more than a minute or so for the first 25 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jercrane Posted June 24, 2018 Author Baller Share Posted June 24, 2018 Oh by the way I also learned the proper name of the part of the hull that had the void. It was one of the “Tines” near the bow on port side. Right at the point of the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller vtmecheng Posted June 24, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 24, 2018 Wow, I got a "disagree" for asking how big the void is? Tough crowd. Happy boating @jercrane. Let us all know how you like the boat and congratulations on the purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Andre Posted June 24, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 24, 2018 @vtmecheng Probably an error.Quite easy on this site to click on those without noticing if you're surfing on a phone...Annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Jmoski Posted June 24, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 24, 2018 @jercrane - you went a long way to get your boat from Adirondack marine - who I agree is awesome. I bought my 196 from them (used) 7 years ago. Honest, fair and super helpful. They still respond to my maintenance questions to this day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Andre Posted June 24, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 24, 2018 Well,seems both of you are not really far from me! I'm near Sherbrooke,Qc. I could see the boat by myself in 2,5 hrs according to Google...and i'm starting 6 weeks off work... B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted June 24, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 24, 2018 @oldjeep Yes I'd take delivery of a boat that had to have something like that fixed. It's a simple fix. Boats aren't like cars. Where you can find identical models to 99.9% of the ones you're looking to buy within 15-20 minute drive. There are a very limited number of production slots for ski boats. If you turn down delivery, you could be looking at 6 months before you got another production slot. So if the dealer and mfr are fixing it to new standard, why would you walk away and delay yourself having fun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller oldjeep Posted June 24, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 24, 2018 @BoneHead wouldnt necessarily walk away, but would expect a minimum 5k extra discount off an overly expensive boat that needs some pretty invasive repairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j2nh Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Our club has an 05 196 with the ZR6. In 2013 our local dealer found that the stringer supporting the engine cradle had collapsed. The theory was the stringer was defective from the get go and finally the cradle let go. Long story short. Correct Craft did not bat an eye. They flew a factory tech up to the dealer, pulled the engine, rebuilt the stringer and replaced the engine cradle. No cost to the club, no hassles, no questions. Dealer said Lifetime Warranty and we were back on the water in 3 weeks. Manufactured products have defects, that is a given, how the manufacturer/dealer treats its customers and fixes those defects is the real test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted June 24, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 24, 2018 @oldjeep HAH $5k. At that, the dealer will walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller oldjeep Posted June 24, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 24, 2018 @BoneHead - I'd expect them to be getting that from CC. Doesn't seem like to much to ask for on a 70K + luxury item that is damaged. In any event it sounds like the guy who is getting a free oil change and storage is happy with the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jercrane Posted June 25, 2018 Author Baller Share Posted June 25, 2018 Took my first set today on the boat. Holy s#!t! Is that an amazing boat. Seriously the best I’ve felt skiing in a long time. That wake is amazing at 28 off. I am so unbelievably happy with this boat and so glad I didn’t do something rash about the small issue. Now I have free storage and winterization for this year and it will likely come back to me pristine as new condition. It will be like having a new boat two years in a row. Kids might not get to go to college but damn I’m glad I made this purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad_Scott Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I’m with @BoneHead These air voids are not a big deal. The happen. Lots of sharp edges on these boats. It’s not like the factory sent it out knowing it had a void. They are more common than most of you know. Not expensive repairs most of the time. Surely not something the dealer will discount $5000 worth. My most expensive was about 5 inches long and cost $750 to repair (under warranty) by a local gel coat guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Andre Posted June 25, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 25, 2018 @jercrane College is overated anyway... ;) Enjoy your new boat! 5.3 l ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skiinxs Posted June 25, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 25, 2018 @bonehead "I'd reject delivery unless they are giving a substantial discount. I wouldn't pay a car dealer new car money for a car they had to repaint." In a previous life I spent many years running the main color booths (where bodies are painted) at a couple assembly plants for a major auto manufacturer. At the time 95% bypass was considered world class quality. "Bypass" means "first time buy" or "not repaired. This equated to, in the best plants in the world, at least 5% of the cars had paint repairs, everything from spot repair, to panel repair or swap, to complete resprays, some more than once. Sometimes they were resprayed so many times they had to be scrapped. I guarantee you none of those cars were sold at a discount due to the repairs. Although everyone's goal in auto and I am sure boat building is perfection the first time, reality is that even the best processes have capabilities and sometimes repairs are necessary to attain the goal. If everything was thrown away that didn't come out of the mold perfect, end products would be way more expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted June 25, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 25, 2018 Believe it or not, I have a background in quality control. Long before I got into building data center infrastructure. In manufacturing, it's rarely economical to shoot for 100% perfection. If you do, you drag down the speed of the assembly process and curtail the ability to be agile. So a certain % of "errors" is deemed acceptable to maximize production speed, maximize profits, and increase customer sat. Customer satisfaction can actually go down by trying to achieve perfection because speed of delivery/availability suffers, or price creeps up. There are some very complicated formulas that go into this. And what's funny is now I work for a company who makes cloud software and one of our largest customers is an auto manufacturer who uses our product to run AI and machine learning on, just so they can calculate production error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller KRoundy Posted June 25, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 25, 2018 Great looking boat! Congratulations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jercrane Posted June 26, 2018 Author Baller Share Posted June 26, 2018 @Andre nope just a boring old ZR4 6.0L. Suits me just fine though. Better than fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Andre Posted June 26, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 26, 2018 Nothing boring in a 6.0! Did you noticed the RPMs at 34 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller swc5150 Posted June 26, 2018 Baller Share Posted June 26, 2018 Odd man out here but I’d go with the 6.0 over the 5.3 for the price alone. Such a great match for that hull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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