Towboat Committee Report from January 2010

[Horton]

Web forums are a place where a lot of complaining goes on. Sometimes it is justified and sometimes it is not. I talk a lot about how I fear for the future of the sport. Sometimes it feels like whoever is in charge of USAWS is simply not listening to the average skier. Perhaps things are not all that bad. Below is a link that makes me very hopefull.

Towboat Committee Report from January 2010.
This is the actual document Will Bush sent me http://bit.ly/7405DD

The whole doc is intersting but the following snip makes me very happy

• Speed Control

The following requests have been made to Zero Off.  Zero Off has agreed to consider the requests; but to date, has not made any commitment:

1.  Need for a slalom “power factor” (similar to the jump power factor) that would allow the entrance speed to be elevated higher than the current entry speed.   I would suggest the scale start at “0” (zero) which would represent the current slightly elevated speed.  By raising the number to 1, 2,etc., the entrance speed would be increased by approx .1mph – so a “1” would represent +.1mph, 2 would represent +.2mph, etc.
2. Evaluate some skiers request to return to the prior gains (before we added the 1,2,3)
3.  An “official” request by AWSA/USA Water Ski to develop a setting which is closer to the prior rpm based systems (Accuski/PerfectPass) --(possibly rpm overlay). 
   Due to economy, many members have been unable and are not likely to purchase new boats.   These members continue to practice with rpm based systems and have not found a setting with the current system that is similar.  These members have stated, as a result, they have stopped skiing tournaments altogether – questioning the need for any association membership.

[thager]

Squeaky wheels occasionally get greased!

[Laz]

Why is the list of boats so short? No Moomba, no Tige, no MC214V, etc. No Response FXi, etc.

[scoke]

 

Requests eh? Funniest posts of the year.

 Devils advocate, if ZO is in every OEM boat from here on out, why should they, financially and business model, adjust the program again? That would be quite a bit of expensive R&D just to "upgrade" their system that users will still whine about and already have no choice to buy anyway.

 

Edit: All these requests are ridiculous.

Power factor to increase the speed?? WTH? Star Gazer comes in screaming into the course sometimes as much as 1.0mph hot. ZO comes in at a consistent +0.5mph to allow for the skier load so it can predict the resulting +/- 0.01 at 1 balls. Why would we want to ramp the speed up even more? illogical.

When the initial version came out, it ran very similar to RPM based mode. We know how that went, semi un-skiable by us mortals.

When it was just "A" "B" and "C" everyone whined, we need something to accomodate the heavier/lighter/beer drinkers/girl skiers!! The system is killing us all. So they inserted 1-2-3....

 This is just like when the skiers had PX-KX-skier weight etc. You can't please everybody!

[jdarwin]

John:

I would not hold my breath regarding ZO's development of a "Perfect Pass" setting.  What would be their rational for doing so?  It states that "many members have been unable (unwilling) and are not likely to purchase new boats".  So, by developing software that is similar to Perfect Pass, they eliminate completely the need to purchase a new (newer) boat.  That is a BAD business model.  ZO has created demand in the marketplace for their product.  This request by AWSA would evaporate demand overnight. 

I hope the towboat committee is not naive enough to believe that ZO would seriously consider such a move.

As for the list of boats being so small, it comes down to money.  AWSA charges upwards of $10k for "approval".  The ROI is simply not there in the 3-event tournament market.

[ForrestGump]

I agree. That'd be like Microsoft putting out a Linux emulator for free because people were too cheap to buy Windows Server.

I like the simplicity of ZO now. But if they wanted to add a "gate up" feature I'd be ok with that, as long as it defaults to 0, the present .5mph over gate speed. But go back to the previous gains? How many skiers want that? 2 or 3? Please!

Hopefully, Jody Seal can get a MC and a Malibu conversion going over the winter for the late model boats now that he's got the 02+ CC's done. That would go a long way towards making things ok. I realize there are older boats than that out there. But realistically, at this point I haven't even seen a boat older than 2002 at a ski lake in a few years anyway.

[HO 410]

***sorry for the block text, the forum software does not recognize formatting from Safari. I'll make this more readable when I have the chance to switch over to a Windows machine***

 

1. What we really need is to increase the complexity of ZO at the skier end. Fantastic, but don't expect me to explain proton spin to skiers that have never tried the new settings.

 

2. Possibly oversimplification, but at least I didn't have to bust out the calculus

to explain what the settings were doing.

 

3. If you're stuck with ZO, this is probably the best thing you could hope for. Again, who is pushing them to develop this? Without major competition, very little.

 

 

 

Requests 1,2,3 aside, I think this really highlights our need as skiers to evaluate what we want and need out of ski tournaments. For what I see, the amateur tournament scene finds itself in need of more flexibility in towboat choice, that flexibility can only be found with an F class sanction, but those scores will not qualify for national seeding.

[D Wolters]

Shane,

You need to get out more.

Of the 35+ homes at Lago I only know of one ZO boat. Most of the home owner's have not upgraded their boat's since building/moving there.

Same goes for Katy, not sure if anyone has a ZO boat.

Ski Texas II has three ZO boats but also has as many pre 02 boats on the lake

Ski Texas I might have one +02 boat.

Terramare has one ZO boat that I know of (can't count P.R. right now) and I believe the remaining boats are pre 02

Cypress is probably the same as phase II but not sure.

[Horton]

That fact that Will wrote what he did tells me that our unhappiness has been heard. I say we take this as a very good thing. It may not be a solution but it is a start.

[Kelvin]

Shane and David, there's exactly 1 ZO boat in Katy.  We also have a 96 CC and a 94 MC, the rest are all 2002 and newer boats.  Mainly purchased when people moved out to Katy.  Only 1 upgrade boat so far (the ZO).  I'm starting to get the itch, but the $40K plus price tag scratches the itch just fine.  You guys in Conroe are spoiled with your exclusive ZO pulls.

[Skihack]

I was talking with a tournament boat driver that was skeptical of the drive by wire conversions. I was going to convert my 98 SN with a total loss 2008 SN motor and tranny. I was outbid big time. Guy paid 11 k for this boat. hull and top deck and interior total loss. I bid 5k.

Before you go with the conversions, I would take a test ride behind one first and then behind a new boat and try to control all the parameters. Just my two cents.

[Roger]

Chris LaPoint did a repower on his boat and is satisfied. I don't think there will be issues with the conversions if done properly.

[MrJones]

Shane,

Coming in late here, but I agree about the older boats. I have an '01 with 400 hours. Awesome boat, but with my typical luck the conversions are only "02 and beyond. 

 

[eleeski]

My 97 Nautique is horrible for everything but buoy count. Not really practice worthy even - unless the wind is blowing on the other lake. OK for ego training as the soft pull and times let me get familiar with those tough line lengths. That is if I can talk someone into sitting in the ratty seats and I can coax the motor into starting.

My 04 MC is a reasonable practice boat. With the right weights it tricks close to a new boat. I have to calibrate things with a handheld GPS but it works OK. Slalom is tougher than ZO - a harder feel when I use KX- PX10 and my weight 100# heavy - and that's the best feel from my old boat. The engine (almost) always starts but little (but pricey) things are starting to fail. It will get a new steering cable for the year so that will help the drivers. It is not nearly as nice as a new boat - ZO and the engine are just small pieces of it.

Stan's 08 MC is still sweet. Since 5 of us went together on the boat, the cost was not too bad. Maybe cheaper for me per ride than maintaining my old boat (especially since I don't have to maintain his lake). It is still tournament approved and ready. The rules are working pretty well as is.

The EVP can grant exceptions in hardship cases to allow older boats. Great! Older boats that are maintained exceptionally well and upgraded will work quite well. But of my boats, only the currently legal boat is a good enough boat for tournament pulls.

If I really want to run buoys, Kirk's 79 American skier or an old 84 MC gives me the best buoy count. But it is not real.

Eric

[MattP]

eleeski if you ever want a pull behind a 84 MC hit me up I still have one!