How to find the best fin and binding settings for you. (IMO)

[Bud Man]

Sometimes adjustments are not much more than a placebo, and other times they kind of bump you out of a rut (like a stuck needle on an old record player.) Surly they have an affect on the dynamics of a ski and the effects probably magnify the faster you ski. The funny thing is we seem too often to adapt to those changes and eventually ski the way we did before. It is so easy to change equipment and settings but it is harder to change old habits.

 

If you have a friend that you can trust in making changes for you, try this: Write down the changes you want to try and have him pick the change he moves it to and video the results. It needs to be blind to you. If there are screws holding your bindings down, you may want to put a piece of black tape across them when you put them on or just try to not look. Also, instruct him to occasionally NOT make a change at his desecration. Download the logbook from the front page of BOS and let him fill it out. Tell him what you felt after each possible change and have him write it down. All this is best to be done while videoing because what you think, is often not what you see. Again, you are not to know what changes, if any, were made. You might be surprised in the results when you go to read your logbook after this goes on for a while.

 

Added note: You may want to start each new pass at either a slower speed or a longer line in case something feels very different.

If anyone is up to this challenge, please post your results on this thread.

[Horton]

I can think of a number of ballers who's ski I would like to secretly adjust.

[eleeski]

Who, me Horton? Gross changes will reveal the true characteristics of a change. Make a ridiculously large change to clearly feel what that setting will do to the ski. Budman's placebo effect will be overshadowed by the real effect of a huge change. Eric

[ForrestGump]

Mueller would do this to me last year.  I wasn't allowed to look at what he was doing. He'd hand me the ski and I'd get in the water. Sometimes he made huge changes. Like .100 moves. And other's he wouldn't make any change. 

[Horton]

My settings for MS:

 

7.25 / 2.00 / 1

[Old MS Accout]

I tried to hide my ski for an entire weekend and Horton still found it. I have a whole new strategy for this summer.

[Dirt]

I think that is the most valid way to make adjustments and know if they help or not. I like to take two or four passes on my ski. Make an adjustment, get right back on the water and see how it feels as opposed to old settings. It is like the eye doctor test. Is it better now or worse. It is the same driver, boat, water, wind, etc.

MS, I tried to tell him not to touch your ski. At least he only wrote on it. If he did that to my ski, I would probably adjust the flex numbers on his with a car tire.

[ForrestGump]

From the back, it looked like he was rubbing his willy on it, MS.

[Horton]

I hate to say but Bud was trying to make real point. I am with smart...

[Old MS Accout]

Shane,

I know he likes the Strada but that would be overboard. He left a bunch of red stuff on it.

Smart,

Thanks for keeping the damage to a minimum. 

[DW]

That strategy is employed by race tire manufacturers all the time in tire testing at the race track.  Blind feeback is what they are looking for and of course any particular driver makes a huge difference on the type and quality of the feedback.  I will add that the blind strategy does not always work for every individual, some drivers need to know what every change is and have a basic understanding as to what the expecations are before they try it.  Alan Kulwicki was a good example of this and even set up a taguchi style change matrix (more than one change at a time but a specific grouping to evaluate multiple change options) to run through in a practice session.  He knew the plan and the changes but had a good understanding of the overall plan to not cloud the results.  Also, adaptability is vastly different for different people, so that has an effect on fin/binding adjustment effectiveness.

I think the challenge in our sport is the wear down rate and or the warm up rate of the skier tending to cloud the results.  Outside factors can change at a rate to alter the results of any given result so we have to be cognicent of both of those elements as you run through a change matrix.  Just an additional factor to add to the mix.

Great post BTW.

[Bud Man]

DW, That is useful information and what you said in your last paragraph hopefully will be covered by the logbook entries.

[DW]

When testing race vehicles in ambient conditions, there are some tests where the change in weather over a given day will have more effect on the measured item than the actual change itself.  It is really important to understand that and have a robust normalizing calculation for it.  The log camn certainly be a good place to capture that.

Another thought on the log, you have a detailed and a quick reference tab, it would be good to only have to make a single entry and use the excel capabilities to automatically populate the same data in the other tabs containing similar info. 

[Bud Man]

I use the Long Form on the logbook and simply copy/paste the first 11 items before the date column, then enter that new data. It really only takes about a second but having it there for sorting purposes is so powerful.

  

I think the Short Form in the logbook is good, but not as powerful as the Long form. The way I wrote the Short Form allows it to be moved into the Long Form with a few simple strokes.

[Horton]

If you do not have experience adjusting your Fin and bindings, I highly recommend you find somebody with experience before you start. Nine times out of 10 times, when I'm helping somebody who has experimented on their own, their settings are screwed up and all I have to do is put them back to stock. Let's face it, the people at the factories that generate stock settings, ski for a living.

There have been many instances in the past when factory stock numbers were junk. I do not believe it is generally the truth anymore.

Depending on the brand I generally end up with relatively close to stock. I do adjust a little but rarely far from stock.

Never would I ride a ski with the bindings more than 3/8 of an inch [1 whole] from stock. With finding adjustments I would be more apt to move back. Significant adjustments forward feel like an improvement in the short term but are almost always negative. So many skiers believe that because they are back on their ski they should move there bindings forward. This is exactly wrong.

Many skiers are surprised that when they move there bindings back a little they may turn better. This is because with the bindings back a little this ski may travel cross course with more angle -  set you up for a better turn. Bindings forward makes the ski feel like it rotates better but in reality this ski will hold less angle course.

[skidawg]

MS, did you ever see the movie step brothers? You know the part where will ferrell is "touching" his drumset, think about that when you look at your stada!

[Old MS Accout]

I may have to buy a new ski now.

 

[ForrestGump]

I told you I saw JTH rubbing his willy on it, MS!

[Horton]

Whatever I did to MS's ski, Mrs. MS helped....

[skibug]

Horton, I know you know a lot more than I do about ski settings; but, between all the skiers I ski with, connections they have with a variety of professional skiers and Big Dawgers, I don't think any of them are close to stock with exception of the Radar's.  Can anyone else echo my comments baased on similar experience and knowledge?  To add, it seems that there are a lot of skiers running fins real shallow and short.

[Old MS Accout]

Shane,

I hope she wasnt helping him with that.

[eleeski]

Horton does not give us enough credit. Who are the people who determine the factory settings? Top level and involved skiers like people here (this forum used to be called Slalom Tweakers). To restrict changes to a couple of placebo thousandths for a sophisticated group severely constrains potential ski performance. Budman and DW are offering useful techniques to make adjustments and to see if they work.

One thing I would I would like to see in discussions of settings would be classifications of skier style. A smooth carving style will need different settings than a crank and yank style. And don't try to force us all into one style!

Eric

MS, what doesn't break your ski makes it stronger?

[Old MS Accout]

Wapping his willy on the ski makes it stronger?

Fin changes can be good for the confidance level.

[ForrestGump]

Don't worry, MS. Mrs MS only showed him where it was. He did the aiming on his own.

[Horton]

SkiBug,

If you ski with Pros and Dawgs you have it covered. My message is to skiers who do not have access to upper level skiers. Shallow and short? Whatever works.

[skibug]

Just to set the record straight; I said my ski partner has personal connections to the professional ranks and Big Dawgs.  It has just been my observation that a lot of the fin numbers seem to be further away from stock than closer FWIW.  I know on my last two D3's (RC and Z7ST) the stock numbers didn't work "for me".  I just always wonder if the Pro-rider for brand "X" is actually riding the same ski I am riding; and, if the fin numbers are actually the numbers they dial in to begin with.