Most Basic Mechanics

[Horton]

When you step back, you realize that this sport is stupidly technical. There is a lot of talk on this forum about technique. Move the handle like this or look there or change your settings so something else happens. I think we need to look at the Most Basic Mechanics before we can talk skier technique.

 

The most Basic Mechanics is the following: the attitude of the ski in all axis, the pressure applied to the ski by the skier and the pressure allied to the ski by the rope through the skier. The skier is ONLY the thing that applies the pressure or change in pressure to the ski.

 

The second thing that I think is often missed is Human Body Mechanics. If controlling Center of Mass is one of the most important concepts in achieving what is needed in terms of Basic Mechanics, Human Body Mechanics must be taken into account at the same time. (note: still not talking about technique)

 

Example #1: when a RFF skier arcs in and heads for the gates, a flater ski attitude w/ power of the boat applied to middle of the ski is more efficient in terms of Basic Mechanics. There are various body positions that can achieve roughly the same rope and ski angles & pressures.

 

Personally, I tend to rotate my shoulders toward the wake at the same rate or faster than the ski as I roll in. When you think about the Body Mechanics, rotating my shoulders from a countered position toward the wakes at a faster rate than the rotation of the ski, guarantees that my Center of Mass will move backwards. (bad)

 

In English? When I rush to get my free hand on the handle on my short gate, I drop my hips and lose my stack. The detail above is about the “Why” not about the “How”.

 

I scratched this out in 10 minutes while I shoved a sandwich on my face. Sorry If It does not make any sense & sorry about the typos – whatever they are. I am hatching an idea about my offside turn and Mechanics is how I am deconstructing it. I think the Why is super important in understanding the How

 

[Horton]

Ward,

Don't worry as long as you can run 39 you do not have to understand anything I write.

[ForrestGump]

What about the rest of us who can't run 39? Do we not have to understand it? lol

[Horton]

Wow I have never lost you guys like this before. Well that is what I get for writing and eating at the same time. Guess I will go back to being the admin

 

[ForrestGump]

You lost me when you talked about the flatter ski with a rff skier. The other stuff I got. Bad spelling and all. LOL

[Horton]

ok I fixed that typo... if I make Kim or Krista proof this they would never speak to me again

[Chef23]

I am not that smart and I ski LFF forward and I am not sure how it applies to anything I think about while skiing.

[Horton]

Well there is a message to me in this..... when you write something and nobody understands.....

[skidawg]

You had me at "sandwich" mmm....HUNGRY!!!

[KB]

 

My skiing got too technical a few years ago and I have been on a quest to simplify. I kept thinking there must be a more simple way to think about skiing and therefore focus what is in my head on the water. Coaches that have helped are Rossi, Chet, and Kuz. The way I have consolidated it was to increase awareness of my water speed, my “line” and how they relate primarily to the boat/rope, but also the course. Specifically the boat/rope first, course second. After all, everything starts with the boat, then we add to it with our movements, and the result is measured by the course. But don’t let the course be the primary influence of your movements. Trying to find simple terms, don’t turn because the buoy went by. Turn because your water speed, position with respect to the boat/rope, and line all come together in a way to get you to the other side on the best possible path. It’s been said before, but I see so many skiers (me too) slam buoys because they went by and they are afraid of moving down course when they should slip down course and inside before the catch the load of the boat.

 

Chet talked about our “moving into our connection” with the boat and I would define what I thought he meant as the point where you need the rope to start accelerating you. Hopefully the rope was tight before that, but then you need the boat to shoot you to the other side. So adding a term, I try to always stay “connected” to the boat (tight line), but at some point you are “dependant” on the boat (where the boat is accelerating you). I try to be aware of the spot on the water where the dependence will happen, and see it in advance. When I am skiing well, I know where it will be from the previous edge change. I know how fast I am going, where I changed edges, what the rest of the turn will feel like, and how I can tweak the turn to let me perhaps adjust the dependence spot, and then move into it the best way I can. I think of the dependence spot both in terms of how wide I will be where it happens (aiming for as far behind the boat as possible) and how far up or down course I will be. Also been said before, as the rope gets shorter, I know I have to move my dependence spot inside and often down course because if I take the load from the boat at the buoy I will be crushed and pulled off my desired line.

 

I feel like the stuff above are top priorities after you have achieved balance on your ski, and basic body position that allows you to be leveraged behind the boat. Hopefully leverage, not load (don’t add energy with muscle). 90% of the time if I want to improve how a pass went, it was best addressed by with the stuff above, not fin settings, ski design, or complex thoughts on body position. I think about having level shoulders, about trailing arm pressure, etc. I even check my fin. But at best in parallel with focus on the above, and if needed as a second priority. I feel like once you open your eyes to this stuff and let it guide your movements on the water, its simplifies everything. Many skiers know this, but I would guess that most don’t. It takes a while to slow down what’s happening on the water, open your eyes wide, and pay attention to this stuff. It took me a few seasons, but the investment was so worth it.

 

Hopefully this makes sense, I wasn’t stuffing a sandwich down my throat. Instead, had too many cups of coffee and was procrastinating work! Been wanting to share this, hope it’s not reinventing any recent threads, lost touch with waterskiing in the Sierras, just getting fired up again.

 

KB

 

[KB]

I meant to add, when you are tuned into the stuff above, ZeroOff is easier to deal with too. First, you will load/fight the boat less. Second, when you do end up fighting the boat and ZeroOff gases you, will be more ready for it.

KB

[Bud Man]

Nice post @KB. I like what you said.

[Horton]

The thinking behind my original post is - I believe most skiers worry about certain movements or positions without understanding why they do them.

 

I find that a lot of my coaching sounds unconventional. I like to think that is because I am disregarding convention and looking at basic cause and effect.

 

Example: I am working on less shoulder counter rotation at the ball as well as countering my inside shoulder forward – not driving my outside shoulder back. Excess twist out means that you have to untwist that same amount. As the load starts it can be hard to not “close-out” if you are untwisting from some pretzel position. Yes, more counter means it is easier to move your mass to the inside but why take more then you need.

 

[Bud Man]

I just got in from skiing. Before hitting the water, I read what you said directly above @Horton about countering with inside shoulder forward. I have been trying to keep my outside shoulder back because that is what so many people say to do. Your tip made a world of difference to my set today. In thinking through the whole thing now, I am already trying to get my upper body forward going into the turn, so your tip makes perfect sense and the old thought of keeping the outside shoulder back is just counterproductive. Thank you very much John.

[Horton]

Like I was trying to say at the start of this thread. (not very well)

 

On the dock we need to understand the "why" so on the water we can work on the "how". There are so many misconceptions in skiing. If we all knew what we were really trying to do, we would could address the correct movements.

 

If you think about it inside shoulder forward - is sort of obvious but most skiers miss it.

 

[Laz]

Number of important pointers about skiing I have read on BOS: 2658

Number of important pointers about skiing I can think of while turning in for the gates: 1 (if I concentrate).

 

And therein lies my struggle.

[Chef23]

Doesn't moving the inside shoulder forward have the same effect as moving the back shoulder back? Sometimes there are different ways to say the same thing that resonates with different people.

[davemac]

...like saying "bend/flex at the ankles", as opposed to "bend your knees"....which causes many to sit back

[Horton]

Outside shoulder back moves your center of mass back. inside shoulder forward moves mass forward... Try it standing on shore

[Chef23]

OK Horton that makes sense to me and I can see the difference.

[Steven_Haines]

Another way to think of it would be to counter with your hips and leave your shoulders out of the equation. By doing this you're not going to over counter and get all twisted up as Horn has suggested. This type of movement also moves your center of mass up and also in the direction of travel. I find if I'm only thinking of my shoulder counter I end up with too much upper body movement.

[Bud Man]

Good point Steven. I will try to think about that tomorrow. That should help me not drop my behind as badly as I do sometimes.

[Ed_Obermeier]

+1 Steven. If I use the hips to counter and leave the shoulders out of the equasion it goes much more smoothly. Simplify, simplify...

[Ed_Johnson]

Another point, and you can use a video to prove this. If you only focus on countering with the shoulders, you will end up skiing an arc. However, if you position your fwd hip to the inside turning radius, you can accomplish a J turn, setting much more angle and acceleration off the apex.

Lead with the hip, follow with the shoulders..........ED

[Ed_Johnson]

Forgot to mention, but reaching forward and positioning the hip to the inside radius of the turn, will be useless if you then ROTATE everything off the apex into the turn. You have to slide the inside hip towards the handle and avoid upper body rotation at all costs. No reaching across to Grab the handle. This causes the inside shoulder to drop, which causes over-rotation,and you will either be in the Lake at that point or pulled up before the 1st wake........ED

[Steven_Haines]

I agree Ed! Just counter "enough" to free up your hips to transition into your cross course movement. I feel the more I use my hips (no shoulders) the better off I am! Another thing I try to do is get my "counter on" and do nothing more! Just try to stay as calm and quiet as I can with my upper body (no reaching for the handle) then stay open to the boat thru the wakes, then counter with the appropriate hip and repeat!

[Ed_Obermeier]

Like Laz said earlier, at best I can think about one thing at a time. Countering my hips (or trying to anyway) is the one thing I tend to focus most on. If I do that one thing (semi) correctly everything else seems to fall into place. For the most part...

[maverick]

Wow, that's some pretty heavy duty pondering for early April... My mental coaching hasn't gone much past "grip it and rip it" yet this season. (But then, we're still snow skiing for another month and I don't expect to even get wet til mid-May.) Seems like it takes 10+ runs at the beginning of each season before things even "slow down" enough for me on the water to evaluate what I'm doing right, what I'm doing wrong, and start tweaking. I'm a bit jealous of those of you that can actually comprehend and visualize this info (much less give it) at this stage of the season. I think I'll bookmark this thread and come back to it... in July (maybe).

[9400]

I like what KB writes. He dosen't write a lot, but when he does it's like Bruce Butterfield's stuff to me. I like my on the water thoughts simple and basic. I prefer my on the land thoughts to be simple and basic. Skiing has a huge number of odd contradictions for me and I've had to trick myself some to accept them and trust them. I'm looking for a feel in my skiing, there's an almost effortless ride that feels like you're riding a swing, arcing on a pendulum.

I know Bud had a discussion on another website about whether skiing was a pendulum and I think I know where he was trying to go with that before the train got derailed. Now, I don't picture riding a pendulum, in my mind I'm trying to ski straight lines from one spot to another, but when I get the ski pointed where I want to go, progressively load and unload, don't overload the rope or underload the rope it feels like this amazing effortless ride from one apex to the next, which to me feels like riding a swing (or pendulum).

 

But if I start thinking about counter rotation, keep the shoulders level, move the center of mass this way or that way, reach here, reach there, I'm in trouble.

[PJ]

all i try to remember this time of year is which foot forward i am

[PJ]

and make sure my drysuit gets zipped all the way

[bmiller3536]

something I try to think about is keeping my hips countered on my edge change then all you have to do is reach forward at the buoy.

An example, LFF going into 1,3,5 your hips should already be facing the shore line behind the boat and shoulders open to the boat, the key is when you start to unload and edge change your hips need to continue to be facing outbound and then start rotating your uppderbody and like Horton said start to rotate your left shoulder forward. That is the easy side.

Where I struggle (Being LFF) is going into my 2,4 turns. Your hips are more open to the boat naturally due to your stance and it is more difficult to keep the hips pointing outbound on your edge change. What helps me on that side is focusing on keepimg my left shoulder back and keeping the handle in tight on my hipso I can keep the ski moving outbound. As soon as your left shoulder starts to move forward your direction shifts down course

[Ham_Wallace]

Ya'll are way over my head. The things that I have learned: 1. I am too flippin' old to change and adapt to a ski.(find a ski that works for me and screw changing). 2. The new T-Factors allow for excellent ankle flex and have amazing lateral support. 3. I hate winter. 4. I love the lake. . I still love reading all the bs that Horton posts!

 

Ham Wallace

[KB]

Thanks Bud Man and 9400.

 

John, sorry if I risked steering the thread away from your intent. I also try to understand why things work. I am sometimes jealous of good skiers that don’t think much, just rip, and may not understand why its working so well. I guess that’s fine when its working, or until you want to coach someone else. More often it might be the other way around where skiers work on some detail without A) knowing how its supposed to work or B) if that should be their top priority. Ex: I know a guy that falls at two ball a lot and thinks it because he doesn’t counter enough at 2 ball. IMO, the real problem is his start/gate needs some work.

 

I work to be open minded, try stuff, understand what happened, and figure out if its good or not. I learn a little more every year and I learn a lot more when I ski with good coaches. When I get as old as Ham, I will stop trying to learn, move to Tennessee, and party with the Nasty Boys!

 

KB

 

[ForrestGump]

Damn, Ham.......you just got called old.

[Ham_Wallace]

Come on down. We swerve too! (age is a state of mind). You are only as old as you act!

[KB]

I was kidding, he definitely can swerve, and more importantly he knows how to have fun. For some those things are mutually exclusive!