Snowboarding, Once a High-Flying Sport, Crashes to Earth

[Horton]

@MattP sent me this. For anyone who watches the state of the industry it may be worth a read.

 

As a side note I had a conversation with a water ski / wake board/ water sport - Sr marketing type guy a few weeks ago about the state of the industry. He said wakeboarding was in a clear decline and slalom skiing was more of a priority. (He did not say this but I assume Surf is also a growing priority so it is a mixed blessing.)

 

For those who do not know - 4 out of 6 of the biggest US based water ski companies also have a sister company or division that does wake.

[BRY]

Some interesting numbers:

snow sports fact sheet

Hmmm, 7,676,000 participants in snowboarding 2014/2015 in US. Not dead or done by a long shot. Just not the crazy growth it had.

Would be a different industry if there were 7,676,000 water skiers in the us.

Disclaimer: I'm a long time skier (since before snowboarding), tried it a few times, it's for people who can't ski.

[liquid d]

It looks like it's about 50/50 on the slopes. May not be crazy growth, but there's a huge number.

[liquid d]

That was Keystone this year.

[oldjeep]

Definitely more park rats on twin tips than snowboards around here.

[lpskier]

For a while, tele was huge. Now there are only a few of us left.

 

My son is a very good snow boarder and competed at a high level. Since and including eight grade, he broke his arm three times, broke his clavicle, separated both shoulders, and just tore his ACL. All that in a total of ten years.

[lakeaustinskier]

I think everyone might be missing the point. In 2016 both sports are almost equally mature. Most younger people can easily flip between the two sports. I have two sons and both of them can easily flip between the two disciplines depending on conditions (e.g. fluffy versus hardpack). They don't care.

 

Another indication of snowboarding maturing - 99% of riders wear helmets now - as opposed to the old days when wearing a helmet was super uncool.

 

Another analogy - my kids like to slalom on smooth water. When it is rough they board or pull out the trick ski.

 

Of course on the water (at least on my public lake) everything is being shoved aside by wakesurfers and wakeskaters. Who wakeboards anymore anyhow?

 

 

[liquid d]

wakeskate...what a waste of good fossil fuel.

[aupatking]

@bry I'd like to get an accurate count of water towed sport/recreational participation year to year. I'm fairly certain we have no decline in overall participation in the overarching category.

Everything has its life cycle, and some of those continue to cycle (Slalom) and some die (this could be a long list of towed water sport items).

People don't even know there is such a thing as competitive skiing. I'm serious about that. I run into people all the time who just don't even know. You know the worst part? 100% of them say they've water skied before.

It's time to include a copy of Edged in Water with every pair of combos sold, worldwide. Maybe leave out Todd's just swerve bit ;)

[lpskier]

We have a new skier skiing with us recently. She is W6 and will soon ski her first ever tournament. Total go for it spirit.

 

She was talking on the dock yesterday about all the things that could be done differently to promote the sport. I chuckled because she basically described the 80's and 90's as if they never happened. Too bad those days seem to be gone as the sport has evolved away from its roots on public water to the privacy of, well, private ski lakes. And were sitting at one as we talked.

 

 

[skibumm]

Ipskier I too am a Tele dude and so are 2 of my daughters. My youngest has not alpined since she 9 and can rip it on teles.

[T-fromTO]

@BRY So you are saying people who choose to pick up snowboarding do so because they are completely incapable of skiing?

[Edbrazil]

I'm sure I would have tried snowboarding, back-back when I was a kid, and did about

everything on snow: skis, sled, toboggan, flying saucer, snow shoes, jumping skis.

Later on, even a mono-ski. Snowboards didn't exist when I was a kid.

 

But, as an older adult with a creaky back and knees: a couple of big obstacles: no poles

to push yourself along with on the flats, and when you stop on the slope, you either need

to sit on your butt on rest on your knees. (Preferably stopping below a roll, so you can't

be seen, with a cluster of buddies, and where you will get run into.)

 

Back in the 1980's, and back on the water, I once tried a Skurfer, at a cable park. Took

one lap around, and it was pretty much a 'so what?'. Amazing how wakeboard developed

in a relatively short time.

[DanE]

@aupatking The include a dvd with every purchase idea might just be the best ever.

[Keith_Menard]

Funny...after I broke my leg skiing (my second break, the first was getting hit by a car riding a bicycle)...I swore off the sport...the stupid clunky boots, always being cold. Done. My wife told me I needed to find a winter sport or go live outside, so my brother said...try snowboarding. SNOWBOARDING? NO WAY...Those guys are the worst people in the world! Finally I relented and the first time I had a heal side glide on the snow, I was hooked. It was the closest feeling I had to holding an edge on my slalom ski.

 

So, no I am one of those worst people in the world.

 

Who is now looking forward to waterski season!

 

https://goo.gl/photos/GfBS4iPXJZRZsaeP8

 

 

[303Skier]

@BRY I'll crush you down any terrain anytime on my board or skis!

 

I grew up skiing from 6 years old and then switched to a board at 10 because skiing was boring. I think like the article states, both disciplines have crossed the matrix or being one in the same which has diluted both industries. Coupled with a poor economy and poor snowfall/weather patterns it's caused a dip in the trend. I board an average of 30 days a season and I can tell you boarding and skiing is still very strong here in CO.

 

I'd be ecstatic and jubilant if the waterski industry got 1/10th of the viewership that snowboarding gets.

 

Disclaimer: I hate it when people talk crap about boarders :neutral:

[ejj]

I'd say that the old appeal of snowboarding as edgy and anti-establishment has disappeared. With that social/marketing gone, kids are not flocking to SB as they once were.

 

The second part of the equation is modern ski design, which has stolen many of the positive aspects of snowboarding. Fatter, softer, easy to turn skis provide a nice experience, especially in the side-terrain that many resort skiers can access easily. Skiing is still easier for your first time down the hill. It's easier to deal with catwalks etc as well.

 

Anecdotally I see more young kids getting into skis vs. boards. (I have 8 & 10 year-old skiers.)]

 

As far as wake boarding is concerned, I see surfing taking over the boat/lifestyle market.

[PatM]

I don't know about snowboarding being for those who can't ski, but I definitely know wakeboarding is for those who can't waterski. That's why it has been popular, it's easy.

[rodltg2]

I get scared on the chairlift

[oldjeep]

@"Pat M" depends on what you mean by wake boarding. If you mean slowly riding from wake to wake then sure. If you mean actually wakeboarding - tower height jumps then not so much.

[PatM]

@oldjeep Maybe so, but my experience with some really good wakeboarder has been they have a hard time getting up on a slalom ski and completely forget about skiing the course.

And I mean at least one of these wakeboarders was a pro.

[boarditup]

All recreational activities will mature and decline over time. When a new sport is starting there is the excitement of exploration - being the first to do something. Snow skiing, waterskiing, skateboarding, wind surfing, kiteboarding, etc., and most other non-contact sports have or will go through this. Early adopters tend to move on once it gets popular. It is not nearly as much fun for the competitive person to enter the field of a mature sport where the margin of victory is fractions of a percentage point. Three-event got there in the '90's. Wakeboarding and snowboarding a couple of years ago. Wakesurfing a long time ago. There will be smaller cycles over time - typically personality or technology related. Think of Tony Hawk and what he did for skateboarding - now that sport is declining a bit, again.

 

Like in our sport, there will be a core of committed participants. The main growth is face-to-face and not in the media. People get involved because of positive exposure - it is fun. Keeping it fun is the challenge. Unfortunately, we, USA Waterski types, have almost gone out of way to suck the fun out of it.

 

Best advice - just ride and share the joy.

[rab]

@ejj has the correct theory here. I work for a large online ski and snowboard retailer and with changes in snow ski technology in the last ten years we are seeing more people young and old either switch back to skiing or pick up skiing for the first time. For midwest skiers the park twin tip has made it more fun for skiers to go into the terrain park which can be half the resort for smaller midwest hills. Out west fatter skis with rocker and better torsional stiffness have made it easier to ski powder and then still carve a turn down groomers. Alpine touring is also becoming more popular and it is easier to skin up a mountain on skis than hike up one with a board.

I have a feeling that a decline in wakeboarding has a lot to do with a rise in surfing. The people that can afford a 100k wakeboat are typically older and are going to prefer the low impact and social aspect of surfing. The customer can also buy the best surf boat out there and it will help their riding, whether beginner or expert. However, buying the flagship wakeboard boat is not going to help a novice wakeboarder get their first wake to wake. If anything it would be easier on a less expensive entry level boat with a less intimidating wake.

[BRY]

@aupatking Yes, it would be interesting to see an accurate count of water towed sport/recreational participation year to year. I don't know if one exists, anybody?

I just find it interesting all the doom and gloom about snowboarding dying when it's got 7.7 million participants and holding steady well over 7 mil for the last 5 years. Not growing but not dying.

 

@T-fromTO Easy dude, don't take a comment stolen from a T-Shirt too literally or seriously. Think you missed the point of 90% of my post.

 

@303Skier Sure dude, whatever.

 

@boarditup has it right, "Best advice - just ride and share the joy."

 

[303Skier]

@BRY You're all pickled out!!!! Thaaasssss riiiite!

[BRY]

@303Skier Sure dude, whatever

[BRY]

Another interesting article is this http://www.outsideonline.com/1921346/can-snowboarding-be-saved, from a standpoint of industry focus being narrow and not supportive of growth in older demographics.

[lpskier]

@skibumm Where are you in Utah? Do you know Jeff Volmrich from Park City? He's a telewacker and water skis at Sunten. He is one of my summer ski partners in NY.

[aupatking]

@BRY That doom and gloom just very well may be a byproduct of our corporate culture these days. "If you aren't growing your are dying". I don't buy it. Perpetual growth doesn't even make sense. Wake boarding, like Snow Boarding, has proven it's staying power. It's not going anywhere, for a lot of reasons. It's easier to learn (get up and ride) than skiing, and it looks really cool, when done well.

We in Slalom know it is an aspirational market sport. First, you have to want to get good enough at skiing, to be able to do it at all, then get good at moving across the wakes, but we needed to know that a world of competitive skiing lay ahead of us. I see these river skiers every day who have never been through the course and are actually afraid to try. They don't even really understand it. the Moomba thread and people talking about the gates, specifically, shows that. The general public (I guess skiing general public) get that you ski around some buoys. That's slalom

Anyhow, our product, slalom or wakeboard, being sufficiently mature is going to cycle up and down. I actually feel like slalom is on the beginning of an up cycle, but we do need the manufacturers to push a little more info with their products, to let the buyer they do have know what a future in skiing looks like. Seeing pros creates aspiration and pull market demand. Something the waterski industry hasn't seen in decades.

Or, the whole, let's find ways to entertain ourselves, world is totally over saturated with $**t to do and we can't keep anyone's attention on anything anymore. I'd like to think we're cycling.

[Waternut]

I feel the "decline" in wakeboard and snowboard has more to do with the decline in sales because so many people are buying lightly used gear. I've been on a few different snowboards and a ton of different wakeboards. Although, every board tailors to a couple specific traits, any board within the last 4-5 years feels almost identical to it's counterpart from a few years ago. So $150 for a closeout board or a used board vs $600-$800 for a new board is a no brainer for everyone except for the top guys/girls who go multiple times a week. Even the guys I know who can flip and do a lot of the cool tricks on wakeboards and go out 4-5 times a week use older boards from a few years ago.

 

Really the same goes for snow skiing and waterskiing. Even the casual skier is going to notice a difference between something made in the early 2000's vs a 2016 model but only a handful of people are going to notice the difference between a 2015 and 2016 model to justify spending $1500+. Heck I can get into 32off most days and 35off on a good day but even I can't justify forking over that much money every year for a new ski but I can justify half of that price for a lightly used ski from last year.

 

Lastly, I think companies are realizing that the internet is a better/cheaper way to reach more customers than sponsoring athletes these days... Younger people see the cool tricks and not the brands these days. Who remembers the kickass and inspirational Radar videos from 2010-2012?

[Fast351]

I've ridden just about everything you can ride on water, and was more than a capable downhill skier in my college days, but never tried snowboarding because it was in it's infancy when I was skiing a lot and now I don't have the ambition to drive hours to go try a new sport, but....

 

As far as towed water sports go, some of the reasons I think wakeboarding is losing popularity are:

 

1) It is HARD to get past wake to wakes, and 180s. It took me weeks of hard crashes before I landed a 360 successfully. I have never stuck a landing on an invert despite trying.

 

2) It is a young mans game, because it's extremely hard on the body. I'm mid-40s, and if I wakeboard today (which I still love to do) I end up limping for two weeks if I do anything but just cruise around behind the boat. Landing on water from 6' up isn't much different than jumping onto concrete from 6' up.

 

3) Like waterskiing, you need good water to really have fun getting after it. Sure, you can ride around a little in rough water, and it doesn't beat you up quite as bad as riding around on a slalom ski in rough water, but it's much more fun on glass than rough water. Surfing on the other hand it doesn't really matter because you create your own wave.

 

That said, I don't know how wakesurfing has become as popular as it has. The boat cost barrier to entry is extreme. I don't know how a boat full of 18 year olds affords a $150K boat.

 

 

I started slalom skiing because the physical toll that wakeboarding was putting on my body. I only wish I'd started slalom 20 years ago knowing what I know now.