The Optimal Slalom Boot

[ALPJr]

From the MOB website...

 

[Adam Caldwell]

@Jaypro - While I can swap out a Radar with my front boot, there is a long list of reasons I use a hard shell. Even putting buckles on the base of the boot Im not sure will accomplish what I am looking for.

 

Hopefully at somepoint I can test out an MOB front release.

[BraceMaker]

You have to swap for regular laces so the boot stays with you.

 

Which reminds me I need to order a MOB g10 plate before spring.

[Jaypro]

@adamhcaldwell do you feel there is an advantage to us mortals out there working on 22-28 off to using a hard shell? If so, following this thread, who can help us dial in these boots? Thanks for all the great info.

[Adam Caldwell]

@Jaypro

 

I think we had listed the advantages of the hardshell ealier in this thread - there are a lot of them.

 

And yes. Anyone on any level can gain from a well setup boot.

 

Clearly I am happy to help in anyway I can. People have been making boot mods long before I got started. The issue is there are probably even fewer people doing boot R&D then there are doing slalom ski R&D. Those that do rarely share info the rest of us are left in the dark.

 

Im not saying my mods are the best thing for everyone, but when I consider optimal performance and optimal saftey, I think I have found modifications that provide the best of both elements.

 

Many 'systems' offer saftey at the expense of performance, or performance at the expense of safety. I refuse to sacrafice either and why I continue to try different things on a regular basis.

[Jaypro]

@adamhcaldwell , I very much appreciate your knowledge and willingness to share! I will re-read the 8 pages, lots of cool info!

[skierjp]

@adamhcaldwell this is what happens when you pull the top lace tight. I would replace my top lace once a month from pulling it to tight

 

[Adam Caldwell]

@skierep, that is brutal. That is exactly why I am a fan of mechanical release systems. To much is left up to chance if you cant control the release pressure. Really sucks to see anyone have that happen.

[mmosley899]

@ALPJr I have built many systems for guys using the double Radar boots, but I have found through my own trials that the cuff on the rear boot has a lot of influence on performance. For that reason, I changed from double boots and I have been advocating the use of a half boot or rtp with the MOB front release. Thats not to say you cannot find the adjustments that will allow you to use double boots. It just adds to the level of tweaks you have to make.

 

@Jaypro like Adam mentioned, I can switch between my front Connelly Sync Boot and my hardshell boot with the same results skiing wise. But I like the consistency of fit I get with buckles instead of laces. The Sync boot works great overall and since that is what you have been using, it eliminates the added cost and learning curve by going to another boot. I know that you, like many others, myself included, may need to put safety before performance as a consideration. But no one wants to make any noticeable sacrifice of performance! Which ever boot you decide to go with, I'm sure we can get it working best for you.

 

And, I am building a system for @adamhcaldwell to test out! It needs to fit his unique boot setup so that he can use the boot he is accustomed to. And I am looking at some other tweaks he and I discussed also.

 

 

[Fehlindra]

So to get more mobil with your rear leg maybe Wiley CBO (Mid Wrap boot) can be an better alt than the more used Pro series Hardcore!?

[mmosley899]

@Fehlindra the problem with any rubber wrap boot in the rear is whether or not it will come off predictably in a fall. If it is loose fitting it may work, but if safety is a priority, a RTP or half boot is preferable.

[mwetskier]

@skierjp -wow not only is your heel really hairy, but the hair is white which means your heel must be really really old.

[SkiRV]

 

[Deep11]

Lateral thinking @skierjp - modifying your foot rather than the boot :) was only a matter of time.....

i made mine point the other way in a vapor but so far no real benefit :(

[Chef23]

@SkiRV whose boot is that?

[Wish]

@Chef23 Im thinkn that is CPs boot. Hybrid- all Radar boot with added carbon fiber at the heal, the base and the toe of the boot to accommodate Reflex release.

[Adam Caldwell]

After CP put his foot inside my shell in Dec he put that boot on the shelf.

[Wish]

@adamhcaldwell you and the Tower have the same size foot?

[lakeho26]

The info in this thread is great! After reading this whole thread I decided to do some cutting on my supershell. I always thought there was a way to make the boot better just didn't know where to start. Just a start but the difference is very noticeable already in the forward and lateral mobility. Any further Suggestions?

 

[mmosley899]

@lakeho26 that mod changes the forward pressure at the cuff and frees up the movement of the cuff. The pressure from your shin is not always directly forward on the ski. To reduce the input of your shin and allow your foot to control the ski you might reduce the height of the cuff. But it is hard to go back once you cut any part, without buying a new boot. Photos of my mods are on the 'how to' page of my website.

[Deep11]

Ok @adamhcaldwell thanks for the advice - I got busy with the tools and cut the cuff way down so I had just enough space for the buckle to go back on. It’s a supershell 3.0 so loads of toe space - cut up an old wetsuit and glued a few layers inside the front of the liner until, when in the shell, all the pressure is down on the ski. Found that like this my arch was flattening out and actually tipping my ankle inwards, so I threw an arch support orthotic into the liner too :) - don’t think you will agree on that bit but my arches need support :)

Now it’s super comfortable with all the pressure down on my foot and full 360 movement of my ankle and shin.

Tried it on the water today and, crucially in the deep water start the pressure was bang on - the ski was not interested in going under the line and it felt just as good as when using the vapor. Best thing now is the additional controllable downward pressure which is really hard to get with the vapor boa thingy.

Just added an alloy plate now to hold the cuff forward.

So thanks again

[Adam Caldwell]

@Deep11 - very very cool! Glad to hear you found something thats working for you! But, I have to ask.....why would you block your arch!!!! lol

 

I know we are all different and some have much higher arches then others...But, consider .....The droping of the arch and rolling of the foot is what allows the knee to move over the inside edge of the ski more and producing more control over the roll angle as needed.

 

The foot and ankle act like a torque converter for your shin. If the foot rolls say 3 degress, youll get roughly the same rotation in the shin which helps your knee travel on a path that leads further over the inside edge of the ski. If you block the arch from droping, you block the rotation in the shin and an limit the ability to use the lower half of your body as effectively for balance.

 

If your RFF on the gate, this may not be a huge issue as you rely more on the outside edge of the foot as the COM moves right toward the gate. BUT, if you are a LFF skier, the arch drop/shin rotation/knee travel is much more noticable because it helps us get the ski edgeing without as much unessesarly upper body lean.

 

The softer Radar boot with an arch support may have enough slop that your foot can still roll. But with the hardshell, using an arch support may block that range of motion a little too much.

 

Need to give it a couple of full sets with and without the support to make a judgement on it.

[BraceMaker]

@adamhcaldwell

while the arch needs to be mobile for people with pathological probation deformities the arch is always down and the tibia rotated continually. But from a design standpoint a custom orthotic with the heel supported in neutral alignment and a flexible arch still let's the foot work but helps yo start in neutral. Even a 6 buck plastic heel cup from Amazon can be used to support the hindfoot and leave the arch free.

[gavski]

@adamhcaldwell - “The droping of the arch and rolling of the foot is what allows the knee to move over the inside edge of the ski more and producing more control over the roll angle.” But only in one direction, to the inside, which might not be desired on your onside...

 

I agree a flexing arch is critical, but not an arch that flops flat or is pressed flat to begin with - this would create a bias the towards the inside...you want to have a knee that tracks straight...when you walk, does your knee drop inside?? I somehow doubt it....do you think a deadlift squat in the gym with knees that track inwards is optimal?

 

I tried a set without my footbed and it didnt work for me...my arch ached like a bitch, and my equilibrium felt slightly off centre...like a hard shell without the cuff cut down -but weidly in the opposite direction as the the flattened arch moved my lower leg away from the outside of the cuff..

 

I live in barefeet and flip flops, so i get the whole footbed argument. I even have barefoot running shoes..however, in the ‘normal’ case, my foot is free to move with only my bodyweight...in a ski boot, yiu are clamping the foot down into an unnatural state and then loading it with 5 x your bodyweight.... personally, i would rather have a foot held ‘naturally’ with a footbed that allows controlled flexing of the arch. My knee tracks forewards, not inwards with any loads being transmitted through my skeleton in alignment - as it was designed for..not off kilter becuase my foot has been rolled flat = ankle rolled on = knee tracking inwards etc...

 

As i mentioned to you before, you might have a foot that has a naturally low arch, so this works for you..i am loving all your r&d & innovation, but on this point, i will have to disagree...be wary of the info in ‘skiers manifesto’- sounds convincing, but it is written by scientists - not specialists with 50yrs + in the game and over 10000 documented skiboot alignments...the info is sound and great for general footwear, but not for skiing dynamics.....just sayin’....

[AdamCord]

Unfortunately there just aren't a lot of studies about arch support when it relates to skiing. There is, however, a lot of data out there about running, so I think the best we can hope for is to look at that data and try and draw some intelligent conclusions.

 

This article compiled the data of 150 studies on arch support as it relates to running. Their main conclusions of this are summed up here:

 

Arch support cannot make a huge difference to injury risk, balance, or performance for runners. There is no point spending extra money on arch support in shoes or shoe inserts, just because a salesman thinks your arch is a little too high or low. However, custom orthotics or specific shoes can help with pain management and dealing with certain foot related problems when used after consulting with a physician or certified coach.

 

We will conclude the article with this wonderful advice from one of our experts.

 

If you don't need an arch support, you probably shouldn't use one. It is the equivalent of wearing a cast when you don't have a stress fracture or broken bone. Why would you do that? The best forms of injury prevention are make sure your body is balanced in strength, mobility and flexibility, you are training smart and getting good sleep and nutrition. An arch support affects only one aspect of the body. Don't forget the big picture.

 

A FAR cheaper and more long term solution? Work on you arch, foot and hip strength!!! That is where you are supposed to get "arch support" from. Not some shoe insert. Work on your posterior tibialis, fibularis longus, single leg balance, proprioception, gluteal strength, core strength, body alignment, etc. - Dr Mathew Klein

 

[Deep11]

@gavski this is where i am coming from, I have been working a lot on deadlifting technique over the winter And found that for my knees to track and align correctly I need to “root” my feet , effectively trying to grip the floor with my toes to raise my arch and engage my gluteus. Without the foot bed I was definitely teaching towards the the inner edge of the ski just getting out the water - hence some very dodgy starts. With the foot bed (and cut down cuff) I don’t have to think about it and everything tracks straight.

Now from what @adamhcaldwell said I’m willing to pull out the arch support and see what happens, perhaps a more challenging start is paid off by better control in the course - will give it a go.

 

If I still have anyone’s attention - this one long tread- then a little more mod advice would be good (if we all have the energy for it):

There seems to be agreement that the preferred position is 20-25deg forward for the cuff. @adamhcaldwell mentioned cutting the back of the cuff down to allow the lower leg to come more vertical at the finish of the turn(I think). Do you think it is important that the cuff is fixed forward for this point in the course? meaning as the lower leg comes more vertical and meets the resistance of the forward fixed cuff, is the possible resulting leverage on the rear of the boot (and then the ski) a good thing?

Put another way - if, without a forward fixed cuff, the lower leg comes vertical meeting no resistance do we miss out on the potential effects it might have?

I hope this makes sense and someone who’s tried the various options chips in.( I suspect its more the influence that the pressure has on our overall body position that actual effects on leaveraging the ski, but would be interested to know what other think.)

 

It is qute pertinent as having added an alloy bar yesterday to hold the cuff forward, today it bent :) so clearly not thick enough - watching my video I’m actually quite happy with position / balance, it looks like the stack point is where the pressure is greatest. I’m wondering whether just to leave it off and allow the cuff to come back or toughen everything up???

 

Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this :)

[Adam Caldwell]

@gavski - agree - the knee should track forwards, and thats what I setup to do. But in an offside turn, if you need to be athletic and make a move, the range of motion is huge. Just take a look at Nates knee in an offside turn. His hips cant move the way they do if his shin cannot rotate. Otherwise his knee is not able to drop ahead and inside of the ski that little bit to impart a rotational torque on the front of the ski the way he does, especially when he is in trouble.

 

 

Every skier is different. Obviously there will be different needs for all. Just need to find what works for you. My only goal is to bring some awareness and help poeple realise the potential and limitations within a boot setup.

 

The guy behind Skier manifesto has been settin up world cup racers since the 1980s. But he actually studied the science, took data, developed underfoot pressure measurement systems 20 years ago in ski boots, and aplied sound logic/science and reasearch to multiple sports. Downhill racing, hockey, road bike shoes etc. You must not have dug very far into his blogs. Ive never read a thing he wrote about general footwear. His blog just helped steer my research in a new direction and we have look at a ton of other sources as well.

 

Im not saying I know everything whatsoever, and dont intend at all to come across that way. If I do, Sorry. From the sounds of it, you must have more knowledge then we all do on feet. Would be great to see more info if you have some to share.

[gavski]

Nate is in a rubber boot...the d3 t-factor is stiffer laterally than a cutt down hardshell. i can’t the same internal rotation from the like of FW, TW, WA or CP. I know for sure that FW has a footbed with a heal lift...shortly after he won the worlds, europeans and became no1..

 

Not an expert, just read around and extensivley researched the subject - like you...i am open to all ideas/ opinoins..i have tried most, been subjected to good and bad setups.

 

As i said wayback, this is a devisive and misunderstood subject..be wary of someone claiming to be a world cup boot tech...many an elite athlete has been handicapped by a so called expert...jow many of these experts ski at an elite level and understand the movements required to ski at that level?

 

You are already waaaaaaay above 99.9% of them both in knowledge and skiiang ability....

[gavski]

Forgive the snow skiing references...still valid, nontheless...

 

Optimal Footbed - What does it mean in skiing?

 

Why we post the footbeds.

 

If the footbeds are doing their job, then the ankle will be at (or close to) neutral subtalar alignment when the skier stands on the footbeds in the skiing stance. This is where the ankle is positioned to transfer load from the foot (heel) up into the leg without that load tending to roll the ankle inward or outward. When a skier tips a ski on edge with engagement (edge hold), the ski tends to push back – this is often referred to as “pressuring” the ski. The pressure underfoot pushes up into the leg through the foot and ankle.

If the calcaneus is everted when the skier stands on the footbed (the foot is “pronated”), then when this pressure pushes up into the foot and ankle, it tends to increase (or worsen) the eversion and pronation. This often causes the knee to roll too far to the inside (making it difficult to release) and it can cause enough internal rotation of the tibia to make the tail of the ski wash out. Posting the inside of the footbed helps to keep the ankle closer to neutral when the pressure comes into the foot and ankle.

If the calcaneus is inverted on the footbed (“supinated”), then when the pressure pushes up into the foot and ankle, it tends to roll the ankle further to the outside. This actually flattens the ski (un-edges it) when the skier is trying to hold it on edge. Posting the outside edge of the footbed keeps the ankle closer to neutral and helps to prevent it from rolling outward and un-edging the ski.

 

The need for articulation

 

A human being standing upright is not stable – we have to work constantly to maintain our balance. If you faint, you will fall down! We learn how to balance as a baby and young child, so we don’t think about it. However, it is happening any time that we are standing up. When we stand with both feet on the ground, we maintain our lateral balance by leaning on one leg or the other. If we start to “lose our balance” to the left, for the briefest moment we have more weight on our left leg and we can push ourselves back to the center.

 

In skiing, most of our balance is on one foot at a time – sometimes entirely on one foot. How do we maintain lateral balance when we take away one foot? We need to be able to push against one side of the foot or the other. This creates the leverage needed to keep us upright. Try this yourself... stand on one foot

on a hard surface, and have someone push you gently to one side or the other. If you are pushed toward

the inside, you’ll press the arch and big-toe side of your foot harder onto the oor. If you are pushed to the outside, you’ll press the little-toe side of your foot down onto the oor. These aren’t our only reactions to maintain balance. You‘ll lean your body, reach with your arms, and move the other leg around trying to stay on one foot. Our foot is quite narrow, and if we want to balance on one at a time we need to keep our balance centered within the width of the foot. That’s only a few cm of travel in either direction before we “lose” our balance. However, the more we can do with our foot, the less we have to do with our upper body, and that’s more efficient.

 

Now, stand on a squishy, deep carpet and try the test again. You’ll find that your foot has to roll farther to either side before you find the support that you need to push against in order to regain your balance.

In skiing, if our foot has to roll farther to find balance, then we will have a harder time edging the ski and controlling its edge angle, and we’ll be wasting effort by moving all of our body to stay in balance. This is what happens if we have too flat of a heel cup in our footbed (for the mobile and/or pronating foot); too soft of an arch; or too large of a boot.

 

Now, find a footbed with a high, stiff arch – one that fills your arch when you stand on it and is hard to push down or compress with the foot. (If you don’t have one, wedge some dense foam underneath the arch of a softer footbed.) Stand again on the hard floor with this footbed and repeat the one-footed balance tests. Since the soft- floor-test made it diffcult to balance, you might think that filling in the arch would work the opposite way, making it easier to balance. However, this isn’t usually the case. If the arch of the footbed is too high or too unyielding (stiff or dense), then the foot cannot roll to the inside to create the push against the floor that helps us regain balance. If we have this situation in skiing, we lose the fine-tuning of our balance and of the edge hold. In extreme situations, the skier loses the ability to roll the ski on edge – the foot cannot roll inward at all. This can be the result of a footbed with too high or stiff of an arch; having a footbed that is too wide, so that the arch is blocked (prevented from moving in and downward) by impingement with the inner boot wall; or by having a boot that fits too tightly next to the arch and ankle, preventing the navicular and the medial malleolus from moving inward.

 

The footbeds that we make need to reflect both aspects of their role – having the correct base angle to help the foot and ankle deal with pressure loads, and having the correct arch height and fliesability to give the foot the support and articulation it needs to maintain balance. The more footbeds that you make and the more diversity of skiers and feet that you work with, the more you will see the need to custom-tailor each footbed for each skier. The indoor one and two-footed tests help you to assess the efficacy of your footbeds. If you can watch skiers skiing with your footbeds, and with other footbeds that are non-ideal, you’ll learn to see the influence of the footbed on the skier’s on-snow performance.

 

This forms the base....next you then have to consider the boot fit....then the cuff & fore/ aft alignment. Then the balance tests static and dynamic, (floor and on snow) then readjust and refine...

[gavski]

Sorry for the long link:

 

http://harbskisysems.blogspot.com/2017/01/hirscher-before-boot-changes-that-are.html

 

An example of Worldcup of boot tech experts getting it wrong...

 

 

[Chef23]

@gavski I would be interested to see if Hirscher has changed is boots since that article was written because he certainly was dominant this year.

[gavski]

Not sure.. but he is a clear 1sec clear of the rest, which is huge...aside from his technique, his setup is waaay superior...

 

Wonder if nate can ski as well in a hardshell?? I reckon if the time was taken to set it up for him properly before his first set, he would rip....

[Adam Caldwell]

@gavski - I kinda wonder why FW goes OTF more then any other top level skier and suffers severe ankle injurys while then guys with no heel lifts dont? I can appreciate that heel lifts work in other sports, but I have yet to see any evidence there is a 'net benifit' for slalom waterskiing. Yes, FW is a phenomial skier. No doubt. An observation is that he also tends to ski with his hips more 'back' then a lot of other pros. What I cant figure out if its because of the boots & lifts, or if its his natural stance (like JB) (due to shin vs femur lenght and ankle/hip mobility), and the boots&lifts just help keep his mass more forward.

 

In my mind, we just need footware that enables us to shift & move our COM in a forward diagnal path over a skis edge. Could be a snow ski, waterski or whatever kind of ski. The neutral position should naturally help us stand over the middle of the ski, not falling back or too far forward. A snow skier uses an eleveated heel to help keep the COM moving ahead of the skis that are tracking downhill. Without them, a bent knee atheltic position makes the COM shift too far back. The heel lift on a snow ski aids the skier in overcoming the downhill inclination the skis are riding on. For us waterskiing our skis are in a sense going uphill, and we are being pulled into and across them. Unless the boot position/fin are in the completely wrong spot, typically, your COM is already position naturally over the middle of the ski, with a force from the rope that is already pulling you forward. Most skiers have a sever tendency to lean back because in their mind thats what they 'understand'. Adding heel lifts is not going to correct that kind of issue, and may only make matters worse.

 

This could be a bit of a stretch, but think about this...you and I go out and play tug of war....there are two options for footware. High heels or bare feet. How long will it take you to decide what your going to use. Ill go bare feet all day long. You?

 

Ive had my foot in a T-factor on a few occations. Yes it has a higher lever point on the leg, but I am not sure it has the ability to go transfer more lateral torque then a cutdown hardshell. At least not with the way my boot fits.

[gavski]

FW only added his heel lift weeks before he won the worlds...his stance on the ski was night and day different...

 

I have a heel lift because my femur is unusually long...but i know that, because i had it measured and compensated for...the difference it made to my movement patterns is plain to see..just like with FW...

 

Fore/ aft alignment is waay narrower than latteral...so getting somewhere close is better than leaving it uncorrected..remember, we are talking about balance at extreme ranges of motion, way outside the norm, not simply walking...

[Adam Caldwell]

When we use a boot designed to have a heel lift of 3/8 to 3/4 inches high (like a lot of the hard shell boots chosen for slalom) but bolt them flat on a ski with the heel down and toes up, we und up with the ball of the foot on an upward incline.

 

This situation is rather severe on a couple of the new boots that appeared on the market recently. They need almost 7/8" heel lift to have the ball of foot parrallel with the top deck of the ski. Certainly a 7/8s" heel lift on a slalom ski would be a bit uproductive, but even a subtle heel lift would reduce the foot ramp angle and bring your shin closer to 90deg to the ski.

 

If the foot is on a negative ramp angle (say 15deg) instead of flat, and your shin is 90deg to the ski deck, the ankle essensially is already in forward flexion (~15deg) without the shin haveing any forward shank ankle relitiev to the ski deck at all (shin is still 90deg to the ski). Certainly with shells that are designed for other sports and need to run with a heel lift, adding heel lift to a slalom ski would be benificial because it would effectively get your shin closer to a netral (90deg) postion relative to the top of the ski while having less actual ankle flex.

 

Here is a picture to highlight what I am referring to...sometimes pictures are better then words.

 

You can see that even raising the heel on a hardshell significantly, doesnt necessarily provide a resting ankle position that has as much flexion as a rubber boot will naturally have. Hopefully this picture starts to show why we are lowering the cuff height, flattening the boot, and fixing the cuff angle to a more forward flexed position.

 

If you modify the shell and can get the bottom of the hardshell boot to be completely flat (removing the ramp angle from the ball of the foot that occurs when the hardshell is just set on a flat deck), then when the shin is at a 90deg position of the ski, the ankle flexion is at 90degs and basically still 'neutral'. From here, if you flex forward, your shins shank angle will be closer to 55-70deg to the top deck of the ski (like nearly every rubber boot on the market known to man) - as opposed to only reaching say 75 degs when the ramp angle under the ball of the foot is inclined too much.

 

What you have to ask yourself when making boot modification is like anything else in life........."am I putting a bandaid on a symptom, or am I fixing the root issue to the problem?"

 

IMO, the ball of the foot&toes needs to run on a parrallel surface with respect to the top deck of the ski. You can accomplish that by flattening the bottom of a hardshell, OR, by adding a heel lift. Each case will have its advantages and disadvatages. Just need to decide what makes the most sense for you.

 

 

[Ed_Johnson]

I think doing both. If you flatten the toe section, then you wouldn't need as much heel lift. I have been in Hardshells since 95, and have always added some heel lift to feel more natural.

Locking the front cuff forward at 22 degrees really helped a lot.

 

 

[Ed_Johnson]

Has anyone tried the Reflex Spacer for a front boot and how does it work ? Sure would like to see a picture of one installed. May be better than the large plastic washers I have been using.

 

https://reflexwaterskiusa.com/product/undershell-spacer

 

 

 

[gavski]

Yup....this is what I use... I then used it as a template to make a 5mm spacer, but found that was too much of a lift..

[Ed_Johnson]

@gavski ... Could you please post a picture of how this attaches ?

Does the plate have any bend in it after installing it ?

Does it effect the release in any way ?

Thanks

 

[gavski]

 

No bend. No effect on the release..

 

[Ed_Johnson]

@gavski ... Looks like it goes above the plate and the little blocks that hold the release attach to it, is that correct? Also, I can't see the heel cup in the photo, is that still attached over the riser ?

Thanks

 

[Wish]

That is far less lift then that boot was designed for in it's skate days. Can't see how that can make that much diff. My lifts were 1/4" or better..rear being more then the front. Made the toe sit flat.

[Deanoski]

IMO heels fits are band aids for folks that do not flatten the sole of the boot!

 

flatten the sole and no heel fit is needed.

 

@adamhcaldwell FW and JB both have hips a little back compared to other pros

JB had lifts front and back on his Fogman set up. FW I believe only has it on his front. one of my ski partners lifts his front heel and he has hips back pull position also.

 

Some skier just do the easy thing and are scared to heat and flatten the sole. shells are so cheap compared to all the other stuff we buy in this sport.

buy an extra and try it. what can it hurt?

 

a handle cost the same as a shell these days.

 

[DefectiveDave]

@adamhcaldwell ,

 

I've flattened the bottom of my boot and trimmed the material around the bottom-cuff hinge to prevent impingement and allow better forward/aft motion, but I've never trimmed down the top-cuff itself. I've been running this setup for the last two seasons.

 

Instead of trimming down the top-cuff, I've run my top-cuff rather loose with the assumption that this allows better lateral motion and makes up somewhat for having a high cuff. It still seems to release effectively due to the bottom-cuff straps. I've also set the back nylon strap to ensure that my maximum forward extent with the loose top-cuff is about the same as my maximum range of motion (so hopefully I won't get injured that way).

 

Is this sound reasoning or is there something I'm missing about cutting down the top-cuff?

[Adam Caldwell]

@Gavski is the relief cut between the buckles something that was an improvement for your boot?

[gavski]

@adamhcaldwell - good question...i talked at length with Goenn Campbell about this and he recommended i give it a try as a means to soften the over stiff supershell.

 

I guess he felt that one of the aspects missing from hardshell setups - apart from the powershell, was the ability for the ski to washout/ feather the hard edge that is set as you approach the 1st wake in the same way that a rubber boot does..

 

As soon as i tried it, the ski felt smoother and more progressive from hook up through to edge change...

 

What i am struggling with at the moment is the pinned cuff. I am generating huge force through to the back of the cuff straight into my achillies - i have bent a couple of steel plates used to lock the cuff fwd....i have removed it for the time being until i get though the ‘start of season pain barrier’...

 

My RS-1 rear is aggled fwd approx 15deg, and the supershell was at 18deg..maybe i should reduce the front to match the rear.?..i have also cut out the plastic side panels from the inside of the RS-1 boot..

 

The final modification made was to drill out the cuff rivets and cant the cuff over to match my lower leg...i have to say, that feels great...the boot feels balanced - no more bias to one side...

[Adam Caldwell]

I’ve stated multiple times in this thread, locking the cuff without lowering the height of the cuff is not going to be as good as it should be. If it hits too high on the back of the leg you loose too much range of motion when it locked. This is why a radar boot is rubber in the back. Let’s you flex a bit.

 

You could start only lowering the cuff in the back. Leave the sides high, and remount the front buckle lower also. I think that could be a good setup that I have yet to try. Need a new shell to play with first.

 

Was the cut between the buckles before or after you lowered the overall height of the lower shell base below the ankle bone.

 

The exact reason you mention is why I lower the height of the cuff down. If the cuff is too high, you control to much of the ski from you shin and not enough from the foot.

 

You can also drill out a big 3/4” hole above the ankle bone on the sides of the cuff. Gives the cuff a lot more flexibility moving forward and rotating with the leg as needed.

 

[BraceMaker]

A technique that might be helpful is instead of lowering the whole cuff around the top you could U notch for the achilles, it would leave the sides a bit taller laterally to support the top buckle but would allow your shell to be pinned forwards with out digging into the gastroc/achilles.

[Adam Caldwell]

Exactly right

[Wish]

How wide of a U notch are we talking here and how far down the back?