jpwhit

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You actually did one of the other meter tests on the CANBUS, to measure the resistance of the bus itself without the terminator plugged in, and the reading of around 100 ohms is what I would expect. You're basically measured the terminator on the other end of the bus and some of the loads of the devices plugged into the bus. I think that's a good plan moving forward. I'll let you know later this week on the possibility of a test screen.

It seems like maybe there is a pattern of it working when you first start the boat, but then flaking out when the boat has been on for a certain amount of time. Do you think that's the case? If so, does it do that all the time now after the boat has been running for a certain amount of time? If that's the case, then that seems like an electronics problem either in the screen or possibly in something else attached to the CANBUS. That doesn't seem like something a wiring issue would do consistently. I'm really surprised that bus terminator is that far off from 120 ohms, but I'm not sure that would stop it from working. Given that it's a lower resistance that it should be, it is causing the CANBUS drivers to have to work harder than normal so it's possible it's causing them to overheat. I think you should disconnect that terminator and see what happens. If you disconnect it and things immediately go south, then it's not worth continuing. Turn the master power off, disconnect it, then turn things back on and test. You could disconnect other stuff from the CANBUS to eliminate the possibility that something else is flaking out and dragging the bus down. Here's a link to an early post talking about disconnecting the other stuff from the bus. https://www.ballofspray.com/forums/topic/52801-major-zo-issue/?do=findComment&comment=867566 There are also more tests of the CANBUS you can do with a meter. But we're getting to less and less likely causes now. And I don't see how the problems these tests would find would be intermittent. But it's up to you how much effort you want to put into more debugging. If the terminator isn't the problem, I think it's getting fairly likely it is the screen. If you want to send it to me, I can test it and fix it if it's the problem, but I'd make sure the dealer won't cover it under warranty first. I "may" be able to throw together a test screen out of parts that work but have some defect that I could send to you to try. But I'm at the lake house at the moment and won't be back to where that stuff is until Wednesday. For example, I have an LCD touch screen that has a crack but works. I can let you know if that's an option on Wednesday.

Lol... I looked up the official spec for voltage input to the screen. It's 6-32V DC, so seems completely unlikely battery voltage is the problem.

Just a few thoughts. Watch to make sure your battery voltage isn't dropping low. Also, blowers are electrically very noisy. Do you leave it running all the time? I know some people do. If so, test with it off to make sure it's not causing CANBUS interference. Make sure that yellow CANBUS terminator is there. Because if it's not, or it's not right, the CANBUS will be super susceptible to electrical noise. In you have a volt / ohm meter. Unplug the yellow terminator and set the meter to ohms. Touch the 2 meter leads to the 2 terminal in the yellow terminator. Doesn't matter which meter lead goes to which pin. It should read around 120 ohms. Plus or minus 20 ohms won't make a difference. Hopefully it is a wiring problem, and I would think that's most likely, but it still could be the screen. If it's the screen, it would be the CANBUS driver chip in the screen is failing.

If you mess with the wiring harness and it completely quits, then it'll be easier to find the problem 😉 You may find it easier to take the screen out to give you good access. Remove the black and gray large 23 pin connector on the back of the screen by reaching up under the dash. There is a clip on each one you can lift the latch with your fingernail. The waterproof seals get a little stuck when they haven't been off in a while. Wiggle the connectors until they break free. The screen is held in by aluminum clips on threaded studs. When you first look at it under the dash, you'll probably say to yourself two of the clips look pretty easy, the third is a little tight but manageable, and there's no way I can get the fourth one on the far corner. Well, the good news --- there isn't a fourth one, there are only 3 clips. If you take the 2 clips off the side nearest the steering wheel, and just loosen the nut on the 3rd one some. You can shift the screen a little to the right, away from the steering wheel, and pull out the side closest to the steering well. Then you can shift it left to get the other side out. First thing I'd do is examine all the contacts in the black 23 pin plug and socket. Make sure none of the contacts are pushed back in the connectors. Then do the same for the connector going to the boat wiring harness. In both of those pay close attention to the two CANBUS wires. You can also plug the screen back in and start the boat. I'd try watching the engine RPM in the hope that it jumps around enough that you can tell if it stops updating. And then wiggle stuff to see if you can find a bad connection. When you put the screen back in, don't tighten the nuts on the clips any more than needed for the screen to not shift around. Putting uneven pressure on the case of the screen can cause touch screen false readings.

The problem may not be the screen itself or the zero off. Based on your description and that error. You may have a intermittent CANBUS wiring problem. Here's a labeled picture of the HV700 Screen wiring harness. Unfortunately, half of the screen harness is under the dash and the other half goes behind the right side panel where the throttle lever is mounted. So it's a little bit of a pain to get to all of it. Those inline CANBUS splices could be a trouble spot worth checking. I've also seen pins in any of the connectors come unlocked from the connector housing and get pushed out the back so they are barely touching the corresponding contact in the mating connector.

I would recommend against that, at least until the dealer has looked at it to determine if there is warranty coverage. Or let the dealer try that. A lot of times when the screens start to act flaky, updating the firmware will end up making them bricked. Just finished fixing one from a Nautique 200 yesterday where that happened. @lefty when the screen doesn't boot, what happens exactly? Nothing on the screen at all? Does it say "Booting..." on the top left of the screen, but never goes beyond that? If there is nothing on the screen, do the button backlights come on for about 2 seconds, go off for a second, then then come back on?

That's not actually an analog gauge. It's a digital gauge that the screen controls. So the screen reads data from the engine ECM and fuel level sensor and it "talks" to that gauge and tells it what to display. Or if you have "fuel management" turned on, the screen uses a combination of the fuel level sensor data and the fuel management data to control what reading is sent to the fuel gauge. I think your ZO is probably fine. I think your screen is flaking out. Actually the computer board in the screen.

Seems kinda hard to justify the putting the money into an engine / ZO conversion when you have boats like this on the market for 20k. https://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?endless=summer&topic=Search&category=Boat_3Event&postid=70066

The screen reads RPM and Voltages directly from the engine ECM. Along with the screen not booting up properly, it sounds like your screen is having problems. Hopefully the boat is still under warranty. If not, I do repair these screens when I have parts available. Parts for these screens are hard to come by. If you want to go that route, send me a PM. Its a whole lot cheaper than buying a new screen.

What are the “other odd issues”?

Sure, but for the Cat engines, that doesn't necessarily mean it's the same Cat and manifold parts for direct or v-drive. There are quite a few water cooling fittings and things are tight so it's conceivable they use slightly different parts based on the direction the exhaust needs to face. When you order an engine from PCM or Ilmor you specific if it's setup for direct or v-drive. Part of why I'm asking is because it will apply for the ZX-1 if the engine they get is setup for a direct drive. But I'm also interested because I have an Ilmor 6L that's currently setup for v-drive that I will likely put in my ProStar. So, I'm going to face the same situation. Of course, I'll figure it out when I try flipping the Cats and manifolds around, but it would be nice to know ahead of time. I know the answer for PCM vs Ilmor may be different. But it'll give an idea of what's typical. Sounds like the engine's Skip has that I mentioned in my first post are non-Cat. So if they get that one, it shouldn't be a problem.

Right, if it's standard PCM 40a trans with a separate v-drive then it won't be an issue. If it's a 40a with a modified tail housing so the v-drive can bolt to it, then that may be tricky. Or an all-in-one trans and v-drive unit would be a problem. Can the manifold / catalytic converters be flipped around to point the other direction on an EX343 setup for a direct drive so it'll work in a v-drive configuration. I know the exhaust ports on the heads are symmetrical, but I don't know if the manifold or catalytic converters will hit any obstructions. A guess a clue would be to see if PCM uses all the same part numbers in both cases.

Have you used a portable course there and been told you have to have a permit? I'm pretty surprised because in the states where I know the rules, I've never heard of a permit being required if you don't leave the course in overnight or while you're not using it. I'm just wondering if this is one of those cases where, because you asked, you're getting a lot of resistance. As opposed to the "it better to ask for forgiveness than permission" kind of cases. I'm also wondering if the current rules don't really address the situation, and again because you asked... Is this for a college waterski club? Do fishermen on the lake put out noodles? Bouy's with fishing hooks dangling from them.

Learn something new everyday..... Seems like this will create some complexity in changing out the engine to be ZO capable. You'll need an engine configured the way they are setup in v-drive boats. The engine is flipped around so the exhaust manifolds have to be configured in the opposite direction. On a lot of engine, you can flip the exhaust system around, but it gets more complicated with the newest engine with catalytic converters. There are a lot more clearance issues and cooling plumbing that makes it much tricker to convert an engine that was intended for direct drive. Switching out the transmission, if desired for reliability, may also be a little more complex. Is the setup currently in the boat a separate transmission and v-drive gearbox? Or is it a combined unit? Another potential hurdle for converting this boat to ZO, all the new engines available have catalytic converters. The existing engine box may not be larger enough to allow for such an engine without modifications or replacement.

I assume you don't really mean v-drive, the ZX-1 in a direct drive. I'm guessing you mean transmission. Does the boat currently have a PCM 40a transmission? You also don't need an electronic transmission to install ZO. But you are correct that you need a newer engine. ZO will only work with 2007/2008 or newer engine that has an eControls ECM. 1500 hours isn't that bad as @VermontSkier said if it's well maintained. We run all of our club boats up into the 2500 to 3000 hour range w/o too much trouble. If you're doing this to have a more reliable boat, then you really would want a new PCM 80A transmission. PCM doesn't sell parts anymore for the 40a, and to be honest your transmission with 1500 hours is much more likely to give out than your engine. With engine and transmission, you're probably looking at 20-25k total cost at a minimum. Honestly, I think you'd be better off selling and buying a new boat. Or in this is a case, considering your time constraints, installing Perfect Pass Stargazer and Z-box if you don't already have it may be the best option. I just remembered this, Skip has an new PCM 343 with 80A transmission for sale on Ski-it-again for a little less than 18k. https://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?endless=summer&topic=Search&category=Motor_Inboard&postid=69104

@HortonYes, I mentioned the possibility of that large Tommy's inventory being liquidated impacting the boat market in an earlier thread. The reason I think it's interesting that MasterCraft mentioned it, is they only mention stuff like this in an earning call if they want to give investors a heads up that it may have future impact. So the fact that it was mentioned is validation that MasterCraft has real concerns. And they certainly have more insight into the market than all of us.

Interesting they mentioned the situation with Malibu / Tommy's in the earnings announcement as having an impact on the market.

Ok, those are Thomson throttle actuators. They are a lot more expensive than Lenco actuators at about $450 each, but I expect getting them from Nautique is quite a bit more expensive. I don't know if any of the of-the-shelf Thompson models match up exactly. Can you read the part number off of them? They would typically be something like ET12-084 or ET12-174 followed by additional numbers and letters. E for Electrak, T for Throttle, 12 for 12 volt, 084 or 174 is the thrust rating of the actuator. The number and letters following define other details such as CANBus, digital, or linear control interface. Knowing Nautique, it probably won't match an off-the-shelf Thompson actuator exactly. But that may be something as simple as the type of plug on the end of the wires. Interestingly, those actuators are rated for a water spray environment if moving. They are not rated to be actually submerged under water while the actuator is changing position.

I think all 2019's are Bryant built. They only have a few molds, so I don't think there was ever concurrent production between Bryant and the Nautique.

Are they Lenco actuators like on the surf boats? Can you post a picture of the actuators? On the surf boats you can use standard Lenco actuators if you're comfortable changing the electrical plug on the end of the cable. And they can be found for much cheaper than buying the part through Nautique. Also on the surf boats, these actuators are typically good for around 5 years, and then it's just best to replace them. You can re-build them, but in my experience, they don't hold up that long after a rebuild. Or do they look like this? This is what the Lenco actuators look like. I really wish the forum software wouldn't combine posts. Is there a way to force it make a new post instead of combining with the last post when there hasn't been an interceding post from someone else?

Check https://web.archive.org

Yes, that looks like firmware that should work with the Polk. The only other thought that comes to mind is maybe there is a setting somewhere in the polk to turn on / off the external control interface. On the Fusion head units for example, there is a setting to enable and disable the NMEA 2K interface. Other than that, I guess something could be wrong with the Polk or the LINC screen. I think it would be much more likely to be the Polk than the LINC screen.

You replaced the 4 pin JDAB Cable ? Nautique went to JL Audio Receivers in 2018 and they put out retrofit firmware for the LINC screens for folks with the Polk Units that wanted to upgrade. If someone installed that firmware on your boat, that would cause the issue. Can you post a picture of the LINC screen firmware version screen. Fyi, JL Audio also uses NMEA 2k interface between LINC Screen and the JL Head Unit. So there are different wiring harnesses. But I wouldn't think your boat would have the different wiring harness unless someone upgraded your boat to JL Audio, but they pulled it out before selling it. Seems like the Polk units had issues with bluetooth not working reliably. Most people like the JL Audio better, so that's why Nautique made the updates available.