stevezie

2 hours ago, Mastercrafter said:

Unfortunately I think boats are going to be the least of our country's collective worry in a while here. 

 

Well the value of our money has been roughly cut in half over the last five years.  Taking that into consideration, this is trending mostly with inflation.

The problem with many recreational vehicles like boats, is they have completely abandoned any approach to affordability and created product lines all about high cost, high profit products.  For a significant chunk of their customer base, most of their products were only affordable via low interest rates.  This was great when it was cheap to borrow money.  Now that interest rates have gone up, a significant part of their customer based either can't afford their products because the total cost is too high, or they are simply choosing not to buy because they would lose the low rate they have on their current boat.  

The damage is happening across all markets for all "discretionary" high cost toys.  The UTV market is a flooded with inventory.  You can't give campers away.  Harley-Davidson business is way down.  

Generally speaking, the market for used boats under $40k hasn't been impacted in the same way as boats over $40k.  

I would appreciate any guidance on which material(s) to use for reglassing fiberglass exhaust mufflers from a 2014 Prostar. While I suspect just about anything will probably work temporarily, I’m suspect some are better suited and will provide longer lasting results. 

On 3/28/2024 at 8:34 AM, Cnewbert said:

There is no reason why someone who wants to ski can't find a perfectly serviceable used ski boat at a price they can afford.  Ski It Again currently has 169 3-event boats listed at all price ranges, and that's just one source, albeit the best perhaps, but there are many others.  The idea that anyone needs a brand new boat in the $100K range before they can ski is preposterous.  Even at that price for a new tug, water skiing is downright cheap compared to many sports that are flourishing.  Close to where I live is the new World Equestrian Center, a $1 billion dollar facility (that's right, billion with a B) that features 2 luxury hotels, numerous restaurants, dozens of shops, an 18 pump on-site gas station for participants and spectators, 5 huge climate controlled indoor arenas, 2500 stalls, a chapel and much more.  Anyone who thinks skiing and ski boats are expensive better not even think about getting involved with horses.  That $100K +  investment in a brand new ski boat is chump change in the equestrian competition world.  Yet no one in equestrian sports is blaming the cost of top level horses -- upwards of $250K or more... much more, where even mid-level horses sell for $50K, not to mention the shocking cost of training, boarding, vets and myriad other expenses associated with competing... for the sport dying.  Because it isn't dying.  It's thriving in spite of the eye-watering costs to own show  horses and to compete.

If skiing is dying, the reasons have nothing to do with the price of new boats.

You’re using the equestrian world to justify that skiing is affordable? Equestrian is more elitist than competitive skiing. Thats like saying “the polo club is doing fine so skiing must not be that expensive”. There aren’t many sports more high brow than competitive skiing but you picked one.

People from modest means (roughy 90% of the US population) are not even considering equestrian, or competitive slalom skiing, because of cost. Athletes from tiers below the upper class have hobbies that are typically low cost like soccer, basketball, running, hiking, etc. 

The problem statement of this thread was never really clarified. Recreational waterskiing is not in decline.  As many have a said, there are great uses boats for reasonable prices. Competitive waterskiing is in decline. Without zero off and a private lake, you won’t get anywhere. In 90% of the country there is no access to a public course or ski club.  Ski boat manufacturers are also in decline. Can’t be any argument about that. 

We have a 2001 Centurion Eclipse and the wake is extremely small.  I'm sure many will disagree but I would put the wake up against any of the very best boats.  The people who disagree are probably making assumptions and haven't actually skied behind one (there aren't many out there).  It's a bit of a unique boat for that generation because it's significantly wider than others giving it a really large interior and somewhat functional bow compared to others from that generation.  With the added space, it's a really good family ski boat.  It's got absolutely great wakes at low speeds.  My kids don't like skiing behind my 2014 Prostar and want to ski behind the Centurion solely because the wakes are so much smaller at slow speed.  It's got a Mercruiser engine also so parts are super easy to get as well.  

The downside is it's extremely tricky to drive well.  Free skiing is fine but driving in a course is really difficult.  Ours is extremely twitchy with small inputs.  Perhaps someone better at boat set up could improve it but our efforts have failed.  It's also absolutely terrible in any kind of rough water.  I'm not talking ski boat terrible.  It's worse than your typical ski boat.  Not only is it very flat, the deep chines down the edges of the bow act like a tri hull and seem to trap the wave energy instead of pushing it out to the sides.  It rattles and shakes like crazy but has no stress cracks.  The vinyl is thin and the hardware and build quality is typical Centurion stuff.  

It's a great free skiing boat and a great family ski boat, which is unique for this generation.  It's perfect for the 765 acre lake we are on.  

Skiing overall is not on the decline.  It's growing in my area, as others noted in separate threads.  Show skiing participation is growing as well.  Competitive skiing is in decline and DD boat sales are in decline for a few reasons.

It does feel like the beginning of the end without a promo program though unless Malibu is going to change their pricing strategy. Buyers need to be able order their new Malibu for less (or at least comparable) than they can get a Mastercraft or Nautique promo to keep this going. Based on the previous TXi and LXi they might be able to do that and capture healthy margins but will they continue to sacrifice those build slots to lower total profit ski boats. Is it possible the downturn lowers their total demand below their total production capacity, which would make them happy to build any boat?

7 minutes ago, buechsr said:

This is an overbroad statement that is not true for many areas.  

But lets even assume it is true, and since this site is at least in some way emphasizes tournament skiing, lets talk real numbers:  

I randomly selected ski year 2008, 15 years ago, and counted all girls competitors (G1-3) at nationals AT OKEEHEELEE...91 skiers.

I then took 2021, in ILLINOIS, and there were 88 girls competitors (G1-5).  I'm not going to go count every year for comparisons, but statements like "kids do not waterski AT ALL THESE DAYS" is simply not accurate and the sky is not falling when it comes to kids and tourney participation, certainly at nationals anyway.  

To further your point, show skiing is growing in the Midwest and it’s definitely not all boomers. The problem or problems are mostly specific to competitive skiing. 
 

Looking back at the people I skied three event with in college, I don’t think any still ski three event. Most of them show ski though.

29 minutes ago, liquid d said:

That lawsuit loss of $200 million dollars may be the end of the company, with assets being sold. 

You don't think publicly traded corporation has insurance?  It wont cover all of the damages but certainly a lot of it.  

For all the doom gloom such as "revenue is down 37%" and "profits are down 50%", lets keep it in perspective.  Despite being down, earnings were $37m.  That's still a 17% operating margin, which is relatively healthy for many business.  Large corporations frequently operate in single digits.  Investors currently aren't happy and they have challenges ahead of them, but I don't think we should jump to the conclusion the company is going away.

58 minutes ago, DW said:

The high cost argument as the low volume reason carries a very significant flaw - Wake / surf boats.  Acquisition, operating, storage, towing cost are multiples higher than the costs of a new ski boat.  Add that the actual participation time (running under load per participant) skews the cost even more   Its all about participant interest or lack thereof (sadly).  On my lake, there used to be several ski boats, not so much today.  The wake / slalom boat market ratios would be interesting to compare across continents / country's. 

I disagree and would suggest wake surfing tapped into an entirely different market and has almost nothing to do with the skiing market at all. A big chunk of that market it more interested in looking cool rather than a genuine love for the sport. Once it’s no longer fashionable, it will crash. 
 

Regardless, the surfing market is going down the same path. Look at the prices on those boats. The OEMs crank up prices continuously going after margins instead of volume. Water skiing, motor cycles, trucks, whatever, this works until you have narrowed the marked until there is no viable market left. 

2 hours ago, Zman said:

Maybe my experience is a localized one. But, in my limited tournaments over my 16 years of doing them {in my last year of M7) - if not for Boomers, I do not think any of those tournaments would have even happened.

Tournament TCs? Boomer. Most Judages? Boomers. Safety? Mostly Boomers. It goes on.  The bigger exception, maybe Boat Drivers, but still mostly Boomers.

Does this say something for where we are heading?

“Ok, we can play together but I pick the game, we play on my court, we use my ball, and I get to make the rules….  I can’t believe no one wants to play with me.  What’s wrong with all of you.”

Please do not take this as a reference to you or to be about you. Just a generalization of the overall situation you have noted. 

It does have a cavitation plate that is not adjustable. Doesn't look like its moved

Note sure what year they introduced CATS but this does not have it. Standard three skeg arrangement.

Hi guys, I'm wondering if anyone can help with out with a 2001 centurion eclipse. It has some very weird handling characteristics and I'm wondering if they can be corrected. It's tracks ok with no input to the wheel but is very twitchy with any adjustments to your line. Not very course friendly. Can this be improved? Also, it turns very odd. The initial turn in is normal enough as the inside slightly dips into the turn but after a moment it kicks out to ride completely flat. It's not really a problem but very odd and annoying. There is no added weight in the boat for balancing or any of other adjustments. It's as it came from the factory. Any tips or previous experience you guys are willing to share on how to set this boat up would be much appreciated.

During periods of heavy skiing I start getting sharp pain in my back during certain movements afterward. Particularly titling my head down. I feels like it's behind my shoulder blade toward the middle of my back. Feels almost like a pinched nerve but it could just be a tight muscle? If I take a little time off it goes away. Never get it during the winter. This year it seems particularly bad so I'm looking for answers. Some days it can be agonizing to sit at my desk. I would rather not pay a doctor to look at it just to have him/her tell me to stop skiing. Stretching helps but doesn't stop it or prevent it.

 

Anybody else have any experience with this or know what it is. Better yet, how to make it go away or prevent it. Thanks for any help or input.