ZO Off Solution Part 4

[Horton]

Crap, I hate being honest. I skied behind a MC with ZO this weekend and it felt great. Could it be that I have changed skis? Could it be that I am working on loading later? Could it be that I am just skiing different? Beats me. All I know is that I have railed against ZO all summer and I skied great this weekend.

 

Just as I was feeling stupid about the whole thing an open skier that I have never talked to before called me Sunday and railed against ZO…..

 Hell, I don’t know anymore….

[lkb]

It's funny,  I had a tourney at my place Saturday. We pulled it w/ a MC with ZO. I'd say 80% of the people skied well below their average. Only 5 or so skiers got scores they were happy about. Some of the guys that were there absolutely hate ZO. My scores were off a full pass but I'm not a hater of it. I think it just requires more refined technique, which is something I hope to do anyway.

[ForrestGump]

It's odd......In our area, the nautiques with ZO seemed to get better this year, whereas the MCs with it seemed to get worse. But then again, my friend Mike skied within 2 bouys of his pb at nationals behind the MC and said it felt great.  Makes me wonder now how much it is the difference between some of the boats.  The fact that we're still discussing this issue at the end of the year still says that we have an issue with speed control in our sport. 

[auskier]

2gofaster - i would assume that most of the ZO development would have been done with CC's considering andy was involved from early on and CC was the first one to get on the ZO bandwagon...(right before the rest of us were forced to touch our toes and........) so it makes you wonder how different it is.

[Old MS Accout]

Make sure the boat has the P101 upgrade in it.

[Roger]

PP indicates 34.7 to 34.8, ZO indicates 34.2 to 34.3 or approx 1/2 mph slower. We had 14 missed gates in our opener this year at Okeeheelee (many by skiers who had never missed a gate before)...

 

[Than_Bogan]

EVENTUALLY, after we get used to it, should it make it easier to come in 1/2 mph slower?

My first thought is yes, because having the boat decelerate as I'm approaching the 1-ball seems like it makes it relatively harder for me to slow down.  Also, more speed at the gate means carrying more speed into the ball.  Although you do need to bring some speed into the ball, let's not forget that 34 is a LOT easier than 36, so speed itself is not inherently advantageous.

[Marco]

Speed is relative.  Don't confuse speed with accelleration.  Constant skier speed is what we should be striving for in the course.  Getting into the acceleration/deceleration mode is what causes problems.  A fast, even turn in at the gates makes for a wide, easy one ball, but coming in slow is going to result in acceleration, giving the impression of too much speed into the turn.

[thager]

In response to  Hortons comments above I too have railed against ZO's pull. As far as I was concerned the GPS in ZO and Gazer stood for Garbage Pull Systems! I am a scrapper and have skied a Sixam 1.0 since 04. Tournament scores are two passes less this year than last year.  Switched to a different Sixam with the same results. Last week I skied on a Radar RS-1 and the dam thing is so fast in comparison that I didn't really notice the ZO. The ski maintains speed through the turns so well that I don't think the boat knows I'm there! I certainly didn't get the bone crushing throttle response I was expecting when on the Sixam. Now, If MS could drive a straight line through the course that would help too!!! Style, ski, technique, water temp, boat mass, etc. all make a difference especially with GPS speed controls.  

[LeonL]

As to boat speed at the gate with ZO....I have been watching closely the last few practice sessions.  I observed consistet 34.7 when passing thru the gate.  This is with a one-hand turn-in skier.  I suspected a difference would be apparent with traditional turn-in, but found no difference.  I can't explain why Roger is seeing 34.2-3 and I see 34.7.

[Roger]

Leon, what type boat? For us, two Nautiques, 4 different skiers of varying weights and styles. Also, are you looking at the ZO speed or the boats speedometer (sorry, I'm sure you're looking at the ZO, but have to make sure).

 

[Old MS Accout]

Thager,

I am trying to help you get through the course.

Leon and Roger,

my 196 comes through  the gates at 34.2 or 34.3. I have not seen it any faster than that when I look at the speedo.

  

[Than_Bogan]

Marco - If we're trying to get as close to constant speed as we can, does it follow that the BOAT maintaining constant speed is also helpful?  I'm not certain it does, but it sounds logical...  In that case, the fact that PP actually decelerates after the gate would be considered disadvantageous (again, after you get used to ZO).

[thager]

MS

I appreciate that but swerving outside the gate on the ball side is a little much! Could I please just use your rope from Dr. Michaels?  

 

[Director Darwin]

And to think I approved MS as an assistant driver at my clinic last year! /vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-surprised.gif   What was I thinking?

[Old MS Accout]

You never chcked my vision. What color are the gate balls?

Thager, dont get me in trouble with the driver police.

[Director Darwin]

Nor did I check your spelling?  Chcked?

[Horton]

Would have to be drinking to let MS drive. If ZO does not kill your skiing MS sure "wood".

[LeonL]

Roger,  '08 SN 196.  I don't understand why our boat is at 34.7 at the gate.  Everyone else on this and other forums seem to be getting 34.3-4  We have a tournament this weekend.  I'll check the promo '08 SN and see what it does. 

[LeonL]

Forgot to mention that I am looking at the ZO digital speedo.

[Roger]

I saw where you checked around. Let us know what you see on the promo boat. We are seeing 34.2 to 34.3, same as MS.

Chet Raley was giving ZO a good tug just before his pullout in an attempt to fool the system into a faster gate. I was safety during that ride, so never got a chance to see the indicated speed. I'll ask him what he's seeing in his boat (MC) at the school.

 

[Director Darwin]

Chet was doing what?  That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of/vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-yell.gif.  ZO can't be "fooled" into anything.  It only reacts to the skier's input and once that input ends, so does ZO's reaction.  Trying his approach would have the opposite affect on what he's trying to acheive. Geez, you would think a guy like Chet would know that but maybe I'm giving him too much credit.

[Roger]

This was early in the season and I think he was trying various things to see what effect they might have. He sort of bounces against the rope until the pullout. He also switched from B to C after 35 off in this set (Don't think he'll be using C again anytime too soon):

 

http://www.awsasouth.org/video/okeeheeleeslalom/okeslalom.html

 

[ForrestGump]

I finally was able to ski behind and drive an 07 nautique with P101 ZO on Saturday in practice and just play with the different settings prior to our tournament on Sunday with it.  In practice and in the tournament I felt very comfortable with it. When i was driving on Saturday I was seeing 34.6-34.7 through the gates, much like Leon. In the first round on Sunday though, we had the MC197 with both speed controls. So since I liked the pull on Saturday behind the nautique, I went with ZO behind the MC. There is no contest between the pulls on those two boats. I felt like I was pulling against a dump truck behind the MC.

 

[LeonL]

About the promised update about speed at the gate for another SN, well I didn't drive it in either of the tournaments the last two weekends.  (Malibu one weekend and MC the next.  I've been using C in practice with the SN and not knowing what else to do, C behind the MC.  Skied the MC last two tournaments and can't really sense a difference BT the MC and the SN.  I'm not that much of a skier though (mid 32off). Whether ZO or what, I am down about 4-5 buoys this year. Seems to be same scores even with PP 6.5ng in practice or ZO in practice.  Just been thinking it's old age.

[Boody]

I am not seeing the problem with the new version of Zero Off. I have been skiing tournaments like crazy this year and have not seen nor heard of people skiing poorly or below their average.  Yes, the MC with ZO is intimidating and feels a bit hard, people are still skiing well.  

I skied behind an 09 Ski Nautique with Zero Off this weekend at a tournament and thought it felt great. I skied above my average and several others got PBs.  I saw a M4 skier run 38 off for the first time getting 2 at 39, it was awesome.