Butterfield, Tight Handle, Tight Line

[Razorskier1]

Damn this is good fun!  I like being early of the ball (back toward the gates) and "wide enough" (east-west) because it makes me ski more relaxed, and the more relaxed I ski, the more often I'm on the purple loop. 

Now this will sound really odd (typical for those who know me). 

First, the earlier my edge change, the earlier and wider I am at the ball.  Interestingly, I find this to be true even when I come off the wake later than I'd like.  I used to use that as an excuse to pull harder and longer.  Now I just swing the edge big off the second wake if I'm late and am surprised to be early looking at the ball. 

Second, speed management seems most critical to me.  The handle is taking me up the bouy line.  What I want is the right amount of speed such that I maintain speed through the entirety of the pre-turn, turn, and hook up.  Too much speed and I'm slack after the ball -- too little and I don't get there.  That's why I focus on handle pressure as my guide for speed.

 Third, I think about movement.  If I'm going to be early, I can't stop moving.  By this I mean that in the "old school" days, I would get wide enough and early enough and then just hang there waiting for the ball with my ski running straight down course.  Now I try to focus on keeping the ski moving either outbound or inbound, with the apex representing the only point where the ski is momentarily running straight down the buoy line. 

Finally, sometimes it helps me to ignore the next ball until AFTER I've already changed edges.  Sounds odd, I know, but we all know the ball is there and intuitively we know precisely where it is.  Looking at the ball tends to cause me to "freeze" my position rather than continuing to move.  Once the ski has changed edges and is swinging, then see the ball.  In a perfect world (correct speed, line tension, etc), the natural arc of the ski will result in a finish on the backside with almost no effort at all (vs a "turn and load" style of skiing). 

 Rambling . . . I know.  Thanks to everyone for all the input on this.  Talking about skiing is what gets me through winter!

[Old MS Accout]

After reading the response from Bruce, that is what I was trying to say. My thinking is taht I cant get to the bouy line but after I am at full reach with the handle, that is the point where the finish of my turn takes place. As close to the back side (N) of the ball as I can get is my goal. I think everyone here is in agreement with that but it comes back to my origional comment on Verbage. What people hear and think are always differant. Words mean differant things to everyone. I think its the southern drawl.

 

  

[9400]

Razor, I like your ramblings, it makes me think of things in different ways. I've gone back and read your first post a few times about being light and try to figure out how I want to think about it on the water. The one above about movement speaks to me better (i think). I've been trying to ski some throughout the winter, but water temp in the 40s has been freezing my movement some. I can get the feel I want a few buoys at a time, but keeping the feeling with six turns and loads has been escaping me. Fortunately my expectations aren't high right now, but I think I need to be lighter into the centerline so that I can feel lighter leaving the wakes in a better position.

[9400]

MS if your southern was better, I would have understood your message better......but I definitely got lost.

[danbirch]

OB, I'd love to see your path on a GoPro. You will be amazed at the different "appearance" of a skier's path from the boat vs. from his head. The angles/distance from the boat are skewed (in the skier's path respect). The GoPro gives a much more accurate perspective of path.

[scoke]

ban! all of you

[9400]

I'll just go ahead and ban myself....

[danbirch]

OB, here is what Rossi says on the subject: "The idea is to only ski with the maximum angle that does not put load on the rope. This ski angle is so much less than you have ever skied with it will inevitably scare the living you know what out of you. Your mind will race and tell you that you will never make the next buoy, but over time you will learn to stay calm and trust it. I think of looking for the turn that leads me all the way to the second wake. At the apex, instead of worrying about turning your ski, think about finding a way to fall all the way to the second wake. Another way to think of this is to be one moment ahead of the rope. There is no pushing on your ski to turn and definitely no pulling in on the handle to turn. Only pure falling all the way to the second wake. This thought will trip you up at first. To that I say that you have always fallen back to turn your ski. Actually, it’s more correct to say that you have fallen back to skid or slide your ski around. This causes excessive loading of the rope and a very premature edge change. Look at this photo and imagine surfing like this all the way to the second wake before ever catching the boat’s pull. This would be the perfect line. The closer you come to skiing this line, the more buoys you will run. Oh, and one more thing, because you are never loading the rope, your body will feel much better, too!

 

I can't wait for you to post some of your new GoPro video's. It will make clearer what you are doing, with no needed verbage added (wide/early/narrow/late/east/west/north/south). It WILL say what you ARE doing. They say that a picture is worth a thousand words, well, then a video would be worth a million words, as far as ski path is concerned. It's no different than if I went to a show in Las Vegas, and tried to explain the show to you. The picture in your mind will probably be much different than what actually took place. BUT, if I showed you a video of the show, you'd have a very clear concept of what actually took place.

[Razorskier1]

I agree with Rossi in that the intensity should be the same for all passes.  I think the trick is finding that "right" level for each skier.  I started out as a heavy loading skier.  You know, one of those guys who used to beat the old Perfect Pass into submission as a way of catching back up in the course.  That was way too much intensity for modern boats with strong motors and ZO or SG speed control.  So the right level of intensity was to be less intense from 28 off through 38 off. 

 I also agree with Rossi about the turn.  When I get it right I don't turn my ski.  I'm riding the arc of the handle (and ski) in such a way that it just comes right in on the backside of the ball (if you trust it).  I come out of the turn with speed and angle, a tight line and a light load. 

Now, as MS can attest, when I don't get it right I can and will still do my best to put a hurt on the boat! (see Razor ski messy 35s!).  Funny thing is that those can be followed by really nice, light 38s.  Go figure.  Can someone just make this sport a little easier?????

[Razorskier1]

I agree with MS on most things too, but am reticent to say so lest I be banned.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

 Brad, if you loose speed when you're early, its because you come off the handle too soon. Holding the handle longer will keep your speed and energy.

MS, you need to switch from Southern Canadian to English and get rid of that Shiner Bock accent. Maybe then, the rest of us could understand you. You also need to quit pulling like a junior girl.

6balls, note that we are talking about “ideal†path. How many of us, including the high end skiers, actually ski an “ideal†path all the time? When any of us get to our harder passes we turn more downcourse than we would like and get farther away from the “ideal†path. The goal is still to apex well in front of the buoy and backside every turn, even though that doesn't happen every time. If you can ski the “ideal†path on any given line, you probably won't be swimming for another 2 loops.

One of the biggest “Ah ah†moments I've had is from Andy's video a few years back where he talks about creating space in front of the buoy. When you have space, you can deal with all kinds of mistakes and still backside the buoy. More space gives you more margin for error.

[ForrestGump]

Dan, see where i differ from you is that I don't get the same perspective when seeing the view from the skiers head. Because the head is inside the turning circle of the ski and the skier can move it all over. I would much prefer end course video. But that's just me. 

[ForrestGump]

"First, the earlier my edge change, the earlier and wider I am at the ball.  Interestingly, I find this to be true even when I come off the wake later than I'd like.  I used to use that as an excuse to pull harder and longer.  Now I just swing the edge big off the second wake if I'm late and am surprised to be early looking at the ball.  "

This was something that Mueller clued me into last year and it made sense once I thought about it.  The later you move the skier out from under you, the later the line you will ski.  This is also why pulling long into the buoy makes you narrow.  At least as I understand it.

[6balls]

Thanks again, Bruce.  Bring spring.

[ForrestGump]

I somewhat disagree OB. If you look at the geometry, which is what Mueller had me do, pulling long will put you closer the south side of the buoy and make you apex on the north side and wider. It's because of the delta distance between where your ski is when it's on it's pulling edge and where it is on it's turning edge, which can be 8 ft or more. 

[bmiller3536]

Bruce agreed staying on the handle longer will help maintain speed and energy but staying on the handle too long will creat down course speed.

[Old MS Accout]

Shiner Bock Rocks aye..........

[Wish]

This has been a very educational thread for me. I haven't heard anyone mention how wide and early matches up with different ski shapes and skier styles. Isn't that more of a factor for the "ideal path" ? The following are two vids of Thomas D and Chris R 2009 Worlds. They both get it done with almost identical timing but seemingly different paths as it relates to Wide Early North South East West. Two different shaped skis, two different styles and two seemingly different paths.

 

[MattP]