My Impressions of the Ventral Wing

[Boody]

Skibug, I feel a lot like you. I skied on my vw last night for the first time. The tip stays down, period. I don't have to climb all over the front at short line to get a nice pre turn and turn. Its almost like cheating. The turns feel really good. I did not try 38.

 

I am suspect of how much it slows down the ski, I only really felt it on my off side pull, but I felt it. However, at short line I seldom have a problem getting speed across the wake. I obviously want it to work at short line. I am going move the wing from 9 to 8 degrees.

 

[Wish]

Skibug. In taking it off, do you think things changed at all in the skies ride characteristics with two small holes in the front of the fin?? I finally had a chance to build one last night. But still a bit aprehensive without glowing reviews. Especially if I do not like it and am left with a different feel to the ski based on the new set of holes.

[skibug]

Boody, I think it helped my gate too. I am RRF and use a real short 1 handed gate; it really seemed to help smooth out the turn in or at least made it more consistant.

 

Wish, I did not notice any adverse effects from the two small 1/4" holes in the fin. But, if you are worried about it; I think you can buy a blank fin for around $15 - $20. I actually have 3 fins and fin boxes from previous skis. I only drilled out the one fin. I keep the other two set up as spares or if I want to try something without messing with the settings on the fin that I like. I just unscrew the six screws and remove the whole assembly and insert the other one. It works great if you want to try a whole new set of numbers that are quite a bit different from what you are currently running.

[A_B]

OB, are you on stock fin settings?

[Deanoski]

Boody, let use know how it feels at 8 degrees.

 

I ordered mine today

[Boody]

OB, get out of there! Go get a set on the Nano and report back.

 

Deanoski, will do, hopefully taking a set today. Should be in the mid 70s this weekend, plan on doing a lot of skiing.

[MattP]

@OB waters up to 80°F at WSA - time to break out the Nano and run some 38's

[MattP]

@OB whatever I knew it was one of the two...

[A_B]

OB, no golf?

There are some awesome courses over there.

If you can't ski, golf.

[thager]

Same here! You'd look great in a striped shirt with plaid shorts and a scrambled eggs hat though.

[Wish]

Home mad VWing on.. first set in the can. I likey! Seems to smooth everything out. Especially the glide for pregates and the turns.

[Ed_Johnson]

Anyone get their VW's from Goode yet? If so, how long did it take. Coming up on two weeks since they said they shipped mine. Wanted to test them all out on my Mid. before the Nano gets here.

 

Thanks, ED

[Boody]

It took a long time, Just under 2 weeks. BTW, it works. Backed the wing off to 8 degrees. Perfect.

[teammalibu]

This is just the old Tool and Die maker in me talking but you could build a small progressive die for less than the cost of a Nano.

If you had a old press (ebay) you could crank out thousands of vwings a day for less than the cost of a newspaper.

Great Idea I am testing one now. Paid 64.50 just ordered another one. Inc shipping sold out till mid May

We will do any thing for one more !@#$ bouy!

[skibug]

Boody, your move from 9 to 8 seemed to free the ski up? That sounds promissing. I will need to put mine back on and drop my wing from 8 to 7 and see if I get the same effects.

[Boody]

I also put it on my wife's ski and didn't tell her. I put her ski out on the starting dock so she wouldn't see and she put it on and jumped in the water. She has been struggling a bit this year, running 28 off 60% of the time about. She went out and ran back to back 28s off the dock and then ran a 32 off. On the second set, same result but didn't run a 32. I backed he wing off 1 degree also.

 

I then ordered her one but like previously said, they won't ship until mid May. So, she is gonna ski with two extra holes in her fin until then.

[bmiller3536]

I am anxious to see some scores with more skiers trying this VW

[bmiller3536]

put that post in the wrong discussion

[skibug]

Any new feedback. Those out there still riding them? I put mine back on last night after having it off for a half dozen sets so I could see if the data is supported. It seems to be. I skied more consistent with the VW on; but, I still get the sensation of reduced speed cross course. Also, the ski definitely wants to engage in the preturn sooner; so, I have to carry the handle longer. The turns, especially the finishes, are great! I backed off my normal wing from 8° to 7°; and, this seemed to help a little. I am not sure if I need to continue in that direction of tuning or look somewhere else. I was contemplating taking off the normal wing to see what happens. Anyone play with that configuration yet?

[Wish]

Well, gotta chance to ride in much better conditions with my home made VW. I still like it. Does what eveyone is saying. Makes things more consistent. Especially at the finish of the turn and glide for pregates. I don't notice that much drag. Guessing it's due to the constancy of the ski and just being in a better posision through the entire pass. Not feeling the need to make up ground with speed. Have skied very little this spring and struggled to get to my average. First day in good conditions with VW and back to average without scrapping. I generally stay still but out of shape and lack of practice causes me to move around on the ski a bit more. Seems to me that without the VW, intentional and unintentional weight shifts cause issues at the finish of the turn (tip rise, biting). With the VW that seems to disappear. Generally if I make a waight shift intentionally the outcome may or may not be good. With the VW it seems to be good most of the time. Not used to that. Still need more water time though.

[Boody]

I suspect the vw may not work as well with all ski combinations. For example, when I went from an A1 to a Goode, there was a signficant speed increase accross the wake. I do think the vw slows the ski down so a vw on a slower ski may not work as well.

 

Also remember that we want the ski to work the best at our hardest pass. For me, that is 38 and it feels dramatically faster than 35. So I need some help getting the tip to engage and slowed down in the preturn. I have skied 38 with the vw and it does help, not hurt. I don't have a problem getting width at all, my biggest problem has been dealing with the speed at the short line length. With the vw, my tip starts engaging before I can get my body in the right position. One my body gets in the right position, it makes it even better. At my opener, I can feel the ski slow down a bit too much in the turn but who cares, I want it to work at the hardest pass.

 

Both my wife and I had our skiing improve with vw, instantly. So there is something to it. Bottom line, the benefits outweigh the negative.

 

 

[skibug]

Boody, I agree with your comments. I am just looking for tuning suggestions. I do believe the benefits outweigh the small downside. I don't mind having to work a little harder behind the boat for the benefit of keeping the tip down and the ski moving through the turn.

[Wish]

There's that speed issue again. What is speed. Kinda relative really. If the ski or skier can't deal with the speed at the shorter line lengths (tip rise, bite, tail blowing out) than what's the point. Fast does not equate to success. It still takes the same amount of time to get through the course. If a "slower" ski or extra wing puts you and your style (speaking to the average masses here) in a better position both in and out of the turn then speed is almost irrelevant. Skies are being designed to ski faster but they go beyond just speed. They are being designed for us to deal with the speed (that's what they claim anyway). If a VW puts u in a better position throughout the course and your skiing better at the top end of your ability than speed is irrelevant in terms of "it feels slower". That may be a good thing. Question is does that ski or wing make you ski better (more buoys less effort or both)

[skibug]

For me, so far, it is more consistant scoring; but, more physical (harder work) effort. As usual, we are all looking for that balance point.

[GreggyC]

Okay, I'm back, albeit temporarily. Glad to see so many of you getting the results. As mentioned before, went from no wing to large VW prototype and loved it. Better acceleration, traction, staying on plane and less load. All the benefits of no wing + the attributes described. I found that adding the smaller vw forward made it even better albeit with a little more drag, but since I stayed connected to the boat longer to get wide, I was able to use the energy of the boat for width and drop into all the angle I needed with less load and subsequently less of a hole shot that generates unwanted speed. I agree that you want to set the ski up for your harder passes. If I were a 38 off or greater skier i'd be real tempted to go with three, like Chet, but I am not. Bottom line is if you don't want to add another vw in lieu of the traditional wing, I'd keep backing off the angle of the wing until you get what you need...and it is ski and skier specific. My bet is you will ditch the old wing at some point and add another vw...maybe two. There are a number of combinations that have not been tried that may be better still, like three small vw's. I do know the large vw forward with a wing is very clunky.

 

Have fun guys. Looking forward to hearing how things progress.

[Ed_Johnson]

Tried the front mounted Mini Ventral today for the first time and it is definitely a keeper. Wind 10-15 with Moderate Rain, not the best of conditions, but I couldn't wait. Ran 4 32's and 2 35's before torrential rain came. Did not notice any extra drag. What was quite evident is that the tip stayed down through the finish of the turn on my offside so much better than before. Also very stable throughout the whole course. It does not like you to turn hard and will grab more angle than your use to. Once I backed of my intensity a little, especially at 35, it skied much nicer.

Right now I feel it is actually less work skiing with it and I am having to back off my intensity. I will know a lot more after skiing in good conditions and can get a better feel for it. Plus decreasing wing angle may also help. Currently used OB's exact settings. Thanks OB.

 

Goode Luck, ED

[acmx]

ED, did you mount the VW to the slot fin or a Goode fin?

[Wish]

I know it's semantics but I feel that the issue, as some have mentioned, of having to work harder in my case was not due to drag. Quite the opposite. At the end of my set I did not feel I worked harder but felt an over all fatigue. Makes sense, I skied more passes (no falls or misses). Before the VW (this spring) I felt like I was working harder but just parts. Lower back, back leg, fore arms all due to my inconsistent skiing. Those part(s) of my body caused me to end a set. I was working harder to maintain balance and technique. At the end of a set, the part was fatigued not an overall tiredness/fatigue as felt with the VW. If the consistency stays with the VW all my correct muscles get the workout instead of overloading certain ones here and there based on inconsistancy to the point of stopping.

[Ed_Johnson]

ACMX,

 

I mounted the VW to the Goode Fin, exactly the same settings that OB posted. Next I plan to add the Large VW in the normal wing spot with Tips down. Identical to what Dave Miller has. Following that, three VW's like Chets. After all that, I plan to experiment with the VW's on the Slot Fin. By that time my Nano should be here and I will know what I feel is the best setup for it.

I have a feeling that the Speed Slot Fin with the forward mounted small VW may be the ultimate solution.

 

Ski Well, ED

[Dirt]

I tried the small VW forward and reduced my wing from 9 to 7 degrees. I thought I felt a tiny bit more drag than without the VW at first. As the ride progressed, I found that I was actually skiing earlier and wider than without it. That was my first set on it and I was behind a sweet boat (91 MC w/ PP Classic) on an easy lake. I will ride it a few more times and then try moving the bindings like JD suggested. It felt like it had potential.

[skibug]

I went from 8 to 7 on the wing. At this point, just for kicks, I was thinking about taking the normal wing off instead of decreasing to 6 or 5 degrees. Any opinions on that; other than try both? Also, my home made VW has a sweep of 40° leading edge angle with a downward bend of 110° (meaning 20° past a right angle). I am wondering if the downward bend is too much? Anyone have an opinion on the effect of the downward angle?

[Ed_Johnson]

The one I have is 120 degrees or 30 degrees down from horizontal.

[Boody]

I've been sharing my ventral with my wife while hers is on back order. After a set where she skied great I went to take it off and realized I mounted one side upside down and backwards. Lol, but it still worked, she ran her hardest pass with that set up!

[Ed_Johnson]

As I stated before, the front ventral is definitely a keeper. Since my Ventral's from Goode didn't come in yet, I decided to modify the stock wing and try that. I cut off both ends about 3/16 to 1/4" which changed the ends from round to straight. This matches the shape of the Ventral exactly, and decreases some fin area. I also reduced the wing angle from 8 degrees to 7.

 

When I skied it today I told my driver I would be really easy on the first pass at 32 off and may only run a couple of buoys or shadow them to get a feel for the fin. To my SURPRISE, I ran it fairly easy. I then did three more 32's testing getting forward and back to see where its limits were. The sweet spot was definitely a Neutral Stacked position, which for me is the easiest place to ski. I then just used that position to run a couple 35's.

 

Overall, I felt a definite improvement in performance. It seems reducing drag when having the front Ventral really improves performance. I really want to try the large ventral on the rear, but until it comes in I will try reducing the wing angle one degree every set to feel its effect.

 

Ski Well, ED

[Wish]

Two sets today on the home made VW. like like like like. Period.

[skibug]

I think I found my combinations too. I cut down a standard wing like richarddoane did. For me the non-bent VW seems to be what feels best. No significant feeling of loss of speed; but, still with the stability and the tip benefits.

[block]

I tried the ventral this weekend- I did not care for it. My ski and set up ,68"Elite regular wing upside down (-2 degrees 9 to 7) , and small ventral as drawn on the Goode website.

I was not able to get width and ended up skiing at the buoy and stabbing it . I ran 10-12 -28's .The ski was much more stable front to back but it took me off my balance point and I could not adjust (maybe move bindings back). I did not feel a lot of extra drag just much more tip engaguement.

Any comments?

[Old MS Accout]

Block,

You may have to buy a Nano to make the Ventral wing work.

[jdarwin]

I believe the ventral wing is well suited for the Mid Ride but not so much for traditional shaped skis. The Mid can handle the additional tip pressure due to its size. It did not work on an Elite I saw this weekend and I'm not tempted to put it on my Razor.

[Wish]

I have mine on a 9800sl and could not have asked for better results. No adjustments other than the wing and can comfortably run 35s. Ocational over turn but thats me just being impatient on my on side when I just need to let it do it's thing. Ran 4@38 first crack at it this year and again ball 4 impatiants caused the fall. I'm getting to my onside so much sooner with the VW it's messed with my timing.

[skibug]

I put the VW on my Nomad RC and it really helped the onside (RFF), no tip rise coming out of 2, 4. I did have to change my one handed gate a little bit to accomodate for the amount of edge and progressive angle the VW seems to give the gate shot.

[Ed_Johnson]

SLOT FIN VENTRAL REPORT

 

History: For at least 10 years now I have found the Schnitz Slot Fin to outperform all stock fins on the Goodes ( Reg, Mid, & Wide), Monza, D-3 X5, and Strada. The Speed Slot Fin being the best. The question is, how would it perform with the addition of Ventral Fins? After seeing the improvement testing the Ventral on the Stock Goode Fin, I could not wait to try it on the Slot Fin.

 

Result: Yesterday I tried the front mounted Mini Ventral on the Slot Fin for the first time. Ran 4 32's and 3 35's to get a good feel for it. I felt it added a lot of stability to the ski. It turned well as the Slot Fin always has, but when it rolled on edge, it seemed to hold that edge better. It also keeps the tip down better during the finish of the turn. The only Negative I found was that for the first time I felt extra drag. I did not feel this with the Goode Fin at all. I attribute this to the fact that the only forward location to mount the front ventral was 1/4" closer to the base of the ski than the 1/2" on the Goode fin, thus increasing the compressibility factor. So the quest was on to reduce the drag.

 

Today: Decided to add the Large Ventral, tips down, to replace the rear wing. Set it at 2 degrees. Kept the Mini Ventral where it was. All I can say is "FANTASTIC". Eliminated the feeling of drag, increased roll rate, and turning capability. It was kind of like a gun with a hair trigger. It allowed me, when running late into 4 ball at 35, to crank a turn, make up what I lost, and get back into the pass. For me, that was impressive.

 

I would hope some others would try this and give their feedback. I still plan to try the Goode Fin with 3 Ventral's, when my supply of Ventral's gets here with the Nano. Till then I look forward to keep skiing with the Ventral Slot Fin on my present Mid.

 

Ski Well, ED

[acmx]

Ed,

Did you mount the ventrals on a SPEED slot fin or a regular slot fin? Thanks for posting your impressions of the ventrals.

[Ed_Johnson]

ACMX,

 

I have both, but chose to use the Reg. Slot Fin so I could decrease wing angle. Glad I did since the answer was to remove the rear wing to replace it with the Large Ventral. Definitely the way to go.

[RichardDoane]

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[RichardDoane]

I gave my version of the vw a little downward bend yesterday, moved my binders back one hole, and had terrific results.

[Wish]

Richerdson, what's the purpose of moving the boots back. What did that correct or make better. Like u I have a homemade with the slight downward bend. I like the way it skis but always looking and listening to ideas.

[RichardDoane]

I've had my binders all the way forward, but with the VW the tip stays down, so I moved em back to help the ski carry speed through the turn

[skibug]

richarddoane, I had a machined VW on my ski with about 110° downward bend. I replaced it with a modified regular wing, much like the one you originally had, to see if that would cure the sensation of drag I was having; and it did. The flat VW still gave me the benefit of the tip staying down; without feeling the loss of speed. Was there a reason you felt the need to bend it a little bit? Was it all based on wanting to move the binding back?

[rq0013]

richarddoane, so how did it work on the strada? Any negative effects? Is the large wing a stock wing? I have a strada as well and was thinking about trying it. I am at 36mph and I think you are at 34mph? Anyone try this wing at 36 mph?