Baller_ Wish Posted October 21, 2013 Baller_ Share Posted October 21, 2013 The the portion of the exhaust system that quiets the noise is cracked about half way down the unit on the side. Water comes out. Noticed bilge pump running often. Checked the usual with the engine off saw nothing. Turned the motor on and hello poring water. The smile crack is a tad more then an inch long, horizontal and there seems to be a second pin hole just below. Any ideas how to fix this?. I'm assuming the unit is made of fiberglass. Can I glass layers over it?. Anyone seen this before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jhughes Posted October 21, 2013 Baller Share Posted October 21, 2013 Yep, sand and glass over it. Use Epoxy resin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted October 21, 2013 Author Baller_ Share Posted October 21, 2013 Forgot to ask. Does it need to be removed completely or is there an easier way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ForrestGump Posted October 21, 2013 Baller Share Posted October 21, 2013 Not entirely uncommon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Waternut Posted October 21, 2013 Baller Share Posted October 21, 2013 It would be easier to repair once removed but I wouldn't think it's required. Just make sure you sand everything really well, route out the cracked area, and clean it up really well as epoxy resin won't bond well to water and/or exhaust soot. With that rubber spacer there, you might be able to presoak a fiberglass plies and just wrap them all the way around and pull tight. Will be messy if you do it in the boat but nothing a little paint and water won't clean up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ DW Posted October 21, 2013 Baller_ Share Posted October 21, 2013 You can glass over it to repair, I would suggest removing to fix to ensure a good, solid fix. I would recommend drilling a hole at each end of the crack to stop further propagation & lay on a nice fiberglass patch using epoxy resin. Removing the pipe will also allow you to thoroughly dry the pipe to ensure a good bond & long lasting result. If you need it to make it a few more weeks or for a short time, simply take an inner tube and hose clamp a simple band aid over the crack for a short term fix. That does work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Jody_Seal Posted October 21, 2013 Baller_ Share Posted October 21, 2013 Just Imagine what it looks like on the inside!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allycat Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 wonder what a new ones worth it may be better to replace it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted October 21, 2013 Baller Share Posted October 21, 2013 I repaired mine. Removed the muffler, sanded and dried it then epoxy/glassed it. The repair has lasted for years. I field repaired it with a big stainless steel hose clamp and some rubber. That worked OK. Even I will remove the old muffler before slopping resin on it. You will not get acceptable bonding unless the part is clean, oil free, dry and roughed up adequately. Plus, gravity will assist the layup. Good luck, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted October 21, 2013 Author Baller_ Share Posted October 21, 2013 Thank guys. Looks like I will have to remove it. Any tips there? It's only been on there since 1997 and almost 1000hrs. Should just slide off right??? Also @Jody_Seal, your comment scares me. How bad could the inside be?? What would a replace cost me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GaryWilkinson Posted October 22, 2013 Baller Share Posted October 22, 2013 I've heard those mufflers go for around $500 bucks but have a look on correct craft fan forum: http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=10&PN=2&title=boat-parts-for-sale I've done a lot of fibreglass work and it's imperative to have no grease,water or oil stains on the outside of the surface you want to adhere more fibreglass to. So best to take it out but if you can't, use a degreasing agent. Even using Dawn dish soap with water and sponge will help. Lather, rinse, repeat! Then blow dry but leave engine cover open and no conditioner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogexpress Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Just repaired my '07 with 1850 hours. Same symptoms you described - warm water in bilge. Easy fix with alittle fiberglass repair kit. Even more convincing when you look at the price of a new one. Hard part is getting all hoses off. As mentioned above Dawn dish soap and warm water. Be sure to check inside muffler and check that the baffle hasn't broken loose. If so, you can get to it with a stick or brush to secure it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted October 22, 2013 Author Baller_ Share Posted October 22, 2013 @hogexpress how did you get the hoses off. That is my BIG concern with removal. With it being 1997 SN I'm guessing they have welded themselves on over time. Any suggestions welcome.!! @Jody_Seal any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jhughes Posted October 22, 2013 Baller Share Posted October 22, 2013 Getting the hoses off is not that hard. This little hose pick from HF is a life saver for working the hoses off: http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-radiator-hose-pick-96572.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BraceMaker Posted October 22, 2013 Baller Share Posted October 22, 2013 Have you had any issues with lost impellor fragments/overheat alarms etc in the last year or so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted October 22, 2013 Author Baller_ Share Posted October 22, 2013 Impeller replaced along with thermostat in the last yr trying to track down a somewhat overheat issue. In the warm summer water temps here in FL the temp will climb to 200 after a run through the course and then left to idle. Drops back down to 170 underway. This time of yr with water under 80 it seems fine. Been feeling like its a water flow issue. Was told old manifolds to be the cause as all hoses and tranny cooler were checked. Yr and hours would suggest that. Freshwater only boat BTW. What's your thought @BraceMaker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BraceMaker Posted October 22, 2013 Baller Share Posted October 22, 2013 Enough heat will delaminate fiberglass - the rubber hoses will sometimes bubble etc. I would just be curious if one of your mufflers started failing, if you noticed anything associated - particularly on the same side of the engine... rubber hose failure - if you'd lost an impeller with chunks missing and not retrieved I would consider looking for those bits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogexpress Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 A bit intimidating at first, but I was able to wrestle them off. The hard part came in putting it all back together. My advice for the reinstall is to work from back of boat forward. I found it easier to manipulate/bend the hoses coming straight off the manifold risers because I had more 'play' in those hoses and could slide them around more. Soap and water is your friend. Oh, and I also used Nitrile gloves- they grip the hoses really well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogexpress Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Sorry - Realized I really didn't answer your question. I took a flat head screw driver and pryed the hose up and around and poured some soapy water around hose as I did that. I was able to work the hoses loose that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller davemac Posted October 22, 2013 Baller Share Posted October 22, 2013 ironically, my buddy tackled this job over the past weekend. He also has a 97 (500 or so hours I believe), noticed the bilge pump running more frequently and finally traced it back to underside of muffler. The rubber pad had shifted causing muffler to chafe on hull. After removal, interior of muffler was intact. He found the easiest way to remove the muffler was to remove the riser from the top of each manifold...which means you need to order two replacement gaskets for re-assembly ($8 each). He then had a helper twist/rotate the riser and attached hoses while he used thumbs, WD40 and a screwdriver to gently work the hose off the muffler. Said took less than 10 minutes each side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Skihack Posted October 22, 2013 Baller Share Posted October 22, 2013 Put some cherry bombs in place of them. It would sound awesome, maybe. I have seen some folks straight pipe the exhaust when those things failed. I am thinking the pipes looked like stainless steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GaryWilkinson Posted October 22, 2013 Baller Share Posted October 22, 2013 Another question to @BraceMaker is "I would consider looking for those bits" how does one do that inside the water jacket of an engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BraceMaker Posted October 22, 2013 Baller Share Posted October 22, 2013 Well first did it fragment? If so I start by pulling hoses, thermostat/housing. Manifold drains etc. I think a small amount of rubber in the waterjacket isn't an issue - its when a flap of rubber plugs up the inlet to the manifold or similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted October 22, 2013 Baller Share Posted October 22, 2013 The fiberglass muffler does not seem to be prone to plugging up. Mine seemed to be just some opposing direction open tubes which should pass any debris that might get through the manifolds. My muffler failure was either due to the chafing or stepping on the muffler when servicing something with the cover all the way out. It did not plug up and burn up. Manifolds are subject to plugging up with either debris or scale and rust. I don't know how to assess the level of obstruction without taking the manifolds off and apart. That is quite invasive. Watch the temp gauges and be aware of the status of the engine. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted October 26, 2013 Author Baller_ Share Posted October 26, 2013 Ok, taken a crack (pun intended) at this while muffler silencer is still in the boat. Photo is obviously sideways. If someone can rotate horizontal, great. Was able to prop it up off the floor enough. Red line represents the crack (spidered a bit). Blue dots represent where I should drill holes????? Yes???. Have been able to sand a good distance all around the cracks. Enough I believe. So, worried about drilling, not knowing what's on the other side. But will do if that's the recommendation. Also, motor has not been run and it's been on the lift for days but water is weeping (crazy slow) out of the crack. That's why you see shadowing around the red line. 1) do I drill where the blue dots are and what size bit? 2) do I need to stop the weeping before glassing and if so how? 3) what should it be prepped with before glassing? 4) how many layers of glass should I apply? . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rockdog Posted October 27, 2013 Baller Share Posted October 27, 2013 @wish I have a similar water problem in my 97SN also and after seeing your post I believe it may be the same issue. Just had a look at my baffle and found it has already had a repair in the same spot. I will be testing on Tuesday and think I may find it's now underneath that has a crack. I'll report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kona Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 @wish yes it needs to be dry. So although not necessary to drill to stop the cracking you could drill to get the water out. I had this problem on a MC and I just removed the hole thing from the boat, fiberglass can messy and the prep work will require sanding to make sure you have a good rough surface for adhesion of the patch repair. You do not want it to leak. Just remember if its leaking water, it is also leaking exhaust gasses. Without getting into all the details and weights of fiberglass cloth, just patch it with a ""chopped strain" piece and go well beyond the area of the crack. Once that dries sand it lightly to knock down the pokies and reapply more resin and cloth if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ DW Posted October 27, 2013 Baller_ Share Posted October 27, 2013 @wish: you might want to look at your raw water pump, the overshoot temp when you come down to idle could be some leakage around the impeller so it does not provide much water flow at idle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted October 27, 2013 Author Baller_ Share Posted October 27, 2013 No leaks. I and others think its corrosion in the manifolds. They are original to the 97 and 1000hrs. Flow issue there I think. But will check again. Well, I just went for it and glassed it in. We will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller otisg Posted October 27, 2013 Baller Share Posted October 27, 2013 Wish - Check the swirlers - they are at the end of the cast iron and swirl the water out & around the exhaust tubes to keep the rubber & fiberglass parts cool. I had the same problem with the fiberglass 135 deg. angles. Just wire brush and a little rustoleum. Pay particular attention to those if you operate in salt water... Learned the hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted October 27, 2013 Baller Share Posted October 27, 2013 @Wish I cleaned out a bit of my plugged up manifolds by forcing a piece of welding rod up the manifold outlet. Take off the big rubber hose to expose the exit of the manifold. Stick the welding rod into the water holes and work it around. Harder than it sounds as I encountered quite a bit of blockage and had to work pretty hard at it. I think I got things started with a drill through the visible plugs at the end and worked up with the welding rod (not an approved @Jody_Seal repair). It did cool things down a bit. There were other issues with the manifolds and I eventually replaced them completely (the approved Jody Seal repair). Surprisingly, the replacement was not that hard or expensive and the boat ran a lot better for a long time. Use anti seize on all the bolts in case you keep the boat long enough to need new manifolds again. @Wish Another question - why didn't you remove the muffler to glass it? While it might be a bit sticky to loosen up the rubber (I run a thin flat screwdriver around the diameter to unstick things), the removal makes the glassing (and inspection) much easier. If your glasswork doesn't work, it may be too damp. Pull it off, dry it and sand off the bad resin and redo it - if it leaks. Or get one of those fancy new ZO complete engines... Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted October 27, 2013 Author Baller_ Share Posted October 27, 2013 @eleeski Well, it was just to accessible to consider pulling it. Pretty sure those hoses are well secured to it. I think I actually got it. I think the part I always worry about is did I put enough hardener in the mix. Hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rockdog Posted October 30, 2013 Baller Share Posted October 30, 2013 @wish I tested mine yesterday as I said and discovered my leak is actually the water pick up through hull, so I'm of no help sorry. But I do have a decent size patch on the side of the baffle somebody else had already done. Good luck with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted October 30, 2013 Author Baller_ Share Posted October 30, 2013 Water test today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller LeonL Posted October 30, 2013 Baller Share Posted October 30, 2013 @Wish, Enough hardener in the mix....if it sets up and isn't tacky you're good. If still tacky 6-8'hours later put another coat of resing on with more hardener. Too little is better than too much, it will be brittle. The over heating you mentioned most likely caused the problem. Has it gotten louder? If so your baffles are burned put. That what Jody meant (I'm pretty sure) when he said "imagine what the inside looks like". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted October 30, 2013 Author Baller_ Share Posted October 30, 2013 @ LeonL Hmmm? Louder?. I don't want to admit it but yes....a little I think. Hard to say. It's been so gradual over a long time. And I'm comparing to late model 196s I ski behind. It's not MC or Boo loud by any stretch. Still has that Nautique sound.....maybe louder. Ok, let's assume baffle is shot. Can that do any further harm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted October 30, 2013 Author Baller_ Share Posted October 30, 2013 Well, no leaks that I can tell. Theres always a little water sloshing around but after 2 sets the bilge is the driest I've ever seen it in a long time. Bilge pump never ran. Gonna give it a few weeks before calling it a success. Thanks for all the advice!!!! BOS is AEWSOME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller LeonL Posted November 1, 2013 Baller Share Posted November 1, 2013 @Wish, if you've burned out baffles, or just damaged them due to overheating, no further problems should arise. Just louder. Glad the leak is fixed, but still should look into the excessive heat that was mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted November 1, 2013 Author Baller_ Share Posted November 1, 2013 @LeonL thanks. That make me feel a little better. The boat is not all that noticeably louder then other SN I've recently been in sooo thinkn not worth replacing..yet. Have run 6 sets and all is good. With that said, @otisg "the swirlers"?? have not heard of that before. Where exactly are they and how do I get to them? Your cleaning out method? Is it what @eleeski is describing?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ DW Posted November 1, 2013 Baller_ Share Posted November 1, 2013 @Wish: another area for increased noise would be less water flow. The water mixing with the exhaust is a form of baffle in the system. Before digging in to the mufflers, unless you know they have an issue, I would change your impeller and check the results. I have seen an impeller change make a difference. If you have a similar boat that you ski behind, simply look at the amount of water coming out when at ski speed. In addition, the rubber baffle at the tip also does an impressive job of additional noise reduction. Check for damage or ease of being pushed open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted November 1, 2013 Author Baller_ Share Posted November 1, 2013 @DW Thanks will look. I't been a long term prob. Impeller, therm, changed as well as all possible connections and seals looked at. Kinda thing it's the old manifolds. But will look all that over again. Been a bit since I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator1 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 @wish, if you've got a clear plastic "sediment bowl" screen strainer on the raw water input, check for hairline cracks at the top of the bowl where it meets the threaded rim. Antifreeze left in the bowl over winter attacks the plastic and rots it, creating cracks. Hard to see, but the result is the raw water pump sucks air as well at water. Also, disconnect the inlet hose from the thru hull fitting, clamp in a garden hose and run that to a 5 gallon bucket. Run the engine while using the bucket as your cooling source, and refilling it with a garden hose with a hand squeeze nozzle on it. Anywhere from 40 to 60 psi water supply, you should just barely be able to keep up with the engine sucking water by refilling the bucket continuously with the squeeze nozzle wide open. If you CAN easily keep up with the engine slightly above idle, something is wrong somewhere in the raw water system. Pretty crude measurement, but has worked for me for years, on many different boats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted June 22, 2014 Author Baller_ Share Posted June 22, 2014 Well, resurrecting this old thread. Had a small leak in the muffler silencer again. I glassed it. It's fine now. While waiting for it to dry, I went ahead and changed the impeller. I'm pretty sure after doing this and water testing, I have 0 water go through the system based on heat, and sound. What I did do to dry out the muffler system before working on it was to flush out some water in the system by running the boat for a few seconds to push out water while up on the lift. The impeller install went well I thought. Pulled the whole pump off boat and did the job on the bench and reinstalled. I see no leaks at all with regards to the pump. All hose clamps were tightened. Surprised that most of them I could do a full turn and then some but all tight now. Having flushed exhaust to do the muffler repair, have I stopped the pump from being able to prime? Do I need to fill the system with water somehow. What else would cause it not to prime if not from flushing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller gregy Posted June 22, 2014 Baller Share Posted June 22, 2014 Try hooking a water hose to inlet hose to see if it will prime. If it's not working then I'd say your impeller is spinning on the shaft or there is to much clearance on the ends of the impeller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Jody_Seal Posted June 22, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted June 22, 2014 OR!!! You put the pump back in bcakwards! GT-40? Drain screw facing out or in? if it is facing out you installed backwards or up side down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted June 22, 2014 Author Baller_ Share Posted June 22, 2014 Crap, was gonna make this into a contest and see who would be the first to guess what stupid thing I did. But the "Boat Whisperer" aleady did. I have come to dislike the engineers a Sherwood for making an item that can be installed upside down. Thanks @Jody_Seal you win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GAJ0004 Posted June 22, 2014 Baller Share Posted June 22, 2014 If you have a leaking muffler JB Weld works as a patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator1 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Hell@wish. That ain't nothin. In high school, I put 351 from a Torino in my dads CC. Didn't know CC ran the motor backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted June 22, 2014 Author Baller_ Share Posted June 22, 2014 @Jody_Seal sent you a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rockdog Posted June 23, 2014 Baller Share Posted June 23, 2014 Changing impellars in the GT-40 is a crap job compared to an Excal, they are so much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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