"always keep on skiing, the judges might have missed the call"

[TylerR]

@MillerTime38‌ that is what I'm talking about here we need to change the entire culture of our sport. We should be calling these on ourselves. This sport is much more like golf than baseball. And we should be more concerned with honesty in scoring.

[A_B]

Back when I was skiing for an EP Rating, I don't think my conscience would rest if I skied inside 1@38 and picked up an EP rating. Have I ever been done wrong in a tournament, absolutely! I felt that I had an odd boat path coming around an island and found myself going Mach 2 for the gates (before speed control), and had odd rollers at some buoy when there was zero backwash, probably a boat at the end of the course or something, and no re-rides. Just take your lumps and go forward.

[MillerTime38]

@LeonL I thought I would stetch my examples just like you stretched yours saying I would take $50 from a cashier that gave me the wrong change. I have been in that situation and corrected the cashier and gave money back, if you were really interested. Also, I found $600 cash in an envelope on my way to school and turned it in the the office when I was in Elementary school.

 

@TylerR I am not sure this sport needs a "culture change". I have fun at all the tournaments I attend and genuinely like everyone (almost) I have met through this sport.

[TylerR]

@MillerTime38‌ I would say all we need to change is our culture of scoring. Look at my earlier post in the thread. Our sport is amazing and I am proud to have spent most of my life involved in it. I just think we need to change how we score these events and remove the dishonesty from the way we score. I personally saw a few bad calls the judges made at regionals this year. And 2 of them changed the podium.

[schafer]

I was skiing in a tournament last year. I don't remember the line length or what pass I was on. But I was wide and early at 5. And I finished my turn a little early and went about 8" in front of number 5. Disgusted with myself I quit skiing. Didn't go to number six and got pulled back to the dock. Awhile later the driver came over to me and gave me "crap" for quitting. He said "both tower judges and boat judge have you a full 5. Why did you quit" and I have thought about this a lot since then. And I'm happy with the descion I made and would do it again.

[Than_Bogan]

Firstly, I am among the scofflaws who voted for the first option. I can understand why Horton made this anonymous, but I have no need to hide behind anonymity.

 

That said, it wasn't easy for me to make a selection, and much of the discussion above begins to show why. This is truly NOT a black and white issue. I think I know where I draw the line, and it doesn't change with the circumstances or the stakes. Any intentional attempt to decieve the judges is poor sportsmanship. Continuing to ski as hard as you can and accepting whatever score you get is good sportsmanship. That applies both when you get screwed and when you get something you may not have earned.

 

Consider this actual example from my skiing history:

 

Running crazy late out of 5 at 36/-32, I swung the ski toward six, felt nothing, and then took a slack hit and went out the gate. I did not know if I had gone outside of 6 or not, but since I didn't feel my ski or ankle hit, I was about 60% at that moment that I'd gone inside it.

 

So I asked the boat judge if I made it. He shook his head no, but the only words he spoke were "we're checking with the towers." I knew this boat judge pretty well, and with his head shaking back and forth, my estimate of my miss probability jumped from 60% to 99.9%. At this point, it's arguable that I "know" I missed it. I gave serious consideration to refusing any attempt at -35 and just taking my almost-definitely-wrong score of 6 @ -32. In the end I decided to ski -35 and figured I could always insist that the score not record it if I changed my mind later. I ran 2 @ -35, which oh-by-the-way was exactly an EP. Well crap, this just got complicated.

 

In the end, I saved my ass by running 3 @ -35 in the final round, and never had to make that very hard decision. Honestly, I never have figured out what I would have done.

[Than_Bogan]

(Splitting off to a new message for some academic babbling.)

 

As an arm-chair Game Theorist, one thing that concerns me greatly is unwritten and unenforceable rules that serve only to punish the honest. This is actually very bad for the overall integrity of a sport, because it gives a clear advantage to the dishonest.

 

It is therefore usually better to take unenforceable illegal actions and instead make them explicitly legal: thus allowing both the honest and the dishonest to do them. Of course, when you can figure out how to enforce, that's typically better. But barring that, asking the honest to police themselves is basically asking them to compete at a disadvantage.

 

As a chronically honest guy, I get pissed when I am competing at a disadvantage!

[RazorRoss3]

@Than_Bogan‌, in the first dilemma at 36/-32, I'd say that since you didn't see it and that you weren't sure, that you leave the call to the judges because there is no way you could know for sure.

 

The second part I can't agree with enough. The idea that an honest skier is disadvantaged is really annoying. It does make winning despite it all the more rewarding.