What antifreeze?

[Tdub]

I used to go with the expensive stuff but last year I used the pink antifreeze that folks use in RV's johns. I did not have any issues and it is a lot cheaper. I keep my boat in an unheated but insulated garage here in northern Ohio. Is the pink stuff OK to use? Thoughts?

[oldjeep]

I like this stuff - basically non toxic but good to -100F undiluted, so if you wind up with a pocket of water left in the heater it is still strong enough when it dilutes. It also has some corrosion protection that not all of the toilet antifreeze has.

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http://www.bakesonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=2967

 

I think Walmart sells the -50 version, which is a fair amount cheaper. I use 2 gallons of it in my boat, for $40 it is piece of mind. My boat sits in my insulated garage, but the garage is in use all winter so it does get exposed to -20F at times.

[mwetskier]

not only okay to use but zero chance you will poison some ones pet if they stumble across a small puddle of it. plus why pump poison into your lake or any other lake next spring?

[Andre]

Cheap RV pink stuff for 5-6 years now.No problems whatsoever.

It get to -25c here.

[BrennanKMN]

I always use the pink RV stuff; but I also drain the block again after. I fill with anti-freeze and then drain all of it out.

[oldjeep]

@BrennanKMN‌ - why?

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Makes sense to drain all the water out before adding the antifreeze, but why drain out the antifreeze?

[Marco]

I stopped using antifreeze years ago. Do a good job of draining your engine and blowing out the heater, and you should be good to go. Remember, air can't freeze.

[oldjeep]

True, but having some corrosion protection - especially at the knock sensors is a good thing.

[skier2788]

@Marco I like to fill everything with antifreeze. Impellers and seals don't dry out over the winter and steel doesn't rust without oxygen.

[Marco]

Good point Travis. Maybe I'll re-think my methods...

[skier2788]

@Marco just from a mechanics perspective. I know people that do it that way and haven't had any issues. I have run an impeller for 5 years before without changing and I credit that to never taking it out or letting it dry. One other thing to remember is to change the oil. It becomes acid from blow by gasses.

[TallSkinnyGuy]

The impeller can get really deformed if not turned for the whole winter and then not do its job as well. Those of you who change your own impeller know how the fins on one side are really smashed up against the casing. If they stay squished up like that through the whole winter they can stay like that and then not provide as much suction. I take my impeller out during layup, coat it with a silicone lubricant and seal it in a ziplock bag to keep it moist. Of course, it is probably safest just to put in a new impeller each spring.

[oldjeep]

I pull mine out as well. Put a new one in the spring and save the old as a spare.

[thager]

I change impellers about every 2-3 years. Never had an issue. I don't use Stabil or any other chemical in the gas either. I just fill the fuel tank before storing. It's a sealed cold environment and again never had an issue. I change the oil and filter in the spring Any acid in 30 hours of use per year is negligible, I drain the water then fill the engine with -50 pink RV anti frreeze. I don't fog the engine. I have been doing it this way since the 1970's so my data thus far is good.

[oldjeep]

I change the oil before storing, mostly because I have plenty of time in the fall. Also because I take care of 4 boats and don't want to have anyone waiting around for me in the spring to prep the 3 that don't belong to me. I too fall into the no stabil camp, never had any issues with bad fuel we store dozens of seasonal engines. Only engines I fog are engines that are going to sit for years (my eternal street rod project and a spare outboard for the pontoon), and with those it is through the plug holes.

[Edbrazil]

On topic, but a bit of an oldie:

Back when I had a boat: Glasspar Super-G, I had a local auto place do the winterizing. They

apparently poured oil on top of the pistons, as their invoice said. Should have consulted my

boat dealer about fogging oil, etc.

 

Anyway, on startup in the Spring, the oil created hydraulic lock and ended up bending some

valves. So, it barely was able to run, and run like crap.

The same auto place sent a guy who did a valve job. I never paid them.

So, just be careful where you get your advice from.

By the way, the Glasspar G3 outboard was a nice small boat, but the Super-G was a lemon

from the word 'go'. Maybe someone else out there owned one?

[A_B]

I have used both red and green anti freeze. Prefer to use the red or any environmentally safer product now.

I have a 4 foot hose with a plastic joining insert and hook that into the water pickup line and put in a 5 gallon bucket next to the engine that I run my garden hose into on full blast. I warm the engine up to full temp to open up the thermostat then shut it down. Add 4 gallons of AF to the bucket and restart with shower hose open if you have one. Suck the AF down and turn off. Then drain oil and change filter. Use to fog carb on older boats and cylinders, but don't do either now. Don't add Stabil or fill tank. Plastic tanks don't sweat like the old metal ones.

 

Been doing this since 1978 on boats stored outside or inside. The AF helps keep the impeller lubed on fire up in Spring, so mine seem to last a lot longer than recommended.

[Tdub]

Thanks everyone. Pink it is. Al...that is exactly the way I do it as well. Interesting that you don't need to fog the engine anymore. I have been told that there is no need on the newer engines as you stated. That was always a pain. I take it you don't take out the plugs and squirt oil in either? That never made sense anyway. The oil only went down one side of the cylinder. On a side note, bouts come out tomorrow.

[oldjeep]

@Tdub - I'd never squirt oil in a cylinder - if you felt the need to lubricate the cylinders then use a fogging oil through the plug holes so that it gets to all the surfaces. I only do that in engines that are going to sit for a very long time (years) since it is possible to get some cylinder rust over time.

[Tdub]

Thanks @oldjeep. It is a sad time of year. My two sons and I have a tradition the day we pull the course. We play "The Boys of Summer" by Don Henley and down an 8 pack of Little Kings.

[oldjeep]

I know the feeling. The course boat was pulled last week (FILs boat) and mine is getting winterized after our last trip out today. Too many days until the other ski season left, at least I can take my time and really clean and shine the boat up before it gets covered for the winter.

[BrennanKMN]

@oldjeep I always drained it as one more way of preventing freezing. Replace the water with antifreeze that shouldn't freeze, then replace the antifreeze with air that will never freeze.

 

However, after reading a few of the others here I might have to rethink what I am doing. Mostly due to the possibilities of surface rust and drying seals out.

[A_B]

@Tdub‌ - I use to squirt anti fog or dripless oil spray in each cylinder,,leave plugs out and put a big socket and breaker bar on the front crank bolt and turn a few times, but I started questioning how effective it was vs the pita it was. When I fogged the carb, I would stall the engine out, so I figured the cylinders were getting a good coating above the rings, so didn't mess with shooting oil in cylinders. Only did the cylinders on EFI boats, but stopped years ago.

 

I do put Seafoam in the tank before I winterize. I have heard a lot of mechanics praising the product.

[A_B]

 

[oldjeep]

@AB - that is a really extreme way to get the fluids out of the motor ;)

[Ed_Obermeier]

So if I'm understanding what I've read here correctly, with the newer EFI engines there is no need to fog them? I always squirt fogging oil into the air intake as I'm sucking the antifreeze through (5 gallon bucket method, mine has a spout built into the bottom of the bucket with a hose going to the impeller pump intake) then when the bucket is empty shut it down and I'm done with that part. If I really don't need to do that I'm good with not doing it but I was taught that there was value to fogging. Perhaps not so much eh?

 

Like Brennan and Marco I then drain everything afterward. Reasoning - I don't warm the engine before starting the process so I don't know for sure how much AF got into the engine water jackets etc past the thermostat. I know some does cause I can see the color as I drain. My thought is any thing that didn't drain out should have enough AF in it that it can't hurt anything if it gets that cold. I've owned boats for 25+ years, never had a single problem using this method. FWIW I also put Marine Stabil in the fuel and I change the oil & filter before layup also, again never had an issue.

[TallSkinnyGuy]

@Ed_Obermeier‌ -- My understanding regarding the fogging is that not all EFIs are the same and need to be treated differently. EFIs with a TBI (a "wet" intake since fuel gets squirted into it) can be fogged through the intake just like a carbed engine, but the MPI engines have to be fogged in each cylinder by removing the spark plugs, squirting the fogging spray in each spark plug hole, then hand cranking the engine to spread the oil around a bit.

 

I've been told that a ring of rust can develop at the top of the piston head in the cylinder where it is sitting idle for a long period of time during layup. The likelihood of this probably depends somewhat on how long your layup is and how humid your air is, but unless they are making cylinders in new engines out of something rust proof it seems like fogging would still be beneficial since it's purpose is to keep that ring of rust from forming. The ring of rust is unwanted since it can reduce pressure in the cylinder, especially after multiple seasons and multiple rings of rust.

[DW]

@thager: I like to drain the oil prior to a long layup while the engine is warm to drain out the accumulated contaminants in the oil as they are still in suspension rather than letting them settle in the bottom of the oil pan over the lengthy layup period.

 

@Ed O: fogging actually has nothing to do with carb or fuel injection configuration, it is done to protect the machined metal surfaces in the engine internals: cylinder walls, valves seats, etc. The discussion is really on how to fog as some of the FI components can be susceptible to having an oil film on them. If in doubt, you can always fog via the spark plug holes, it just takes longer than spraying through the intake opening.

[RAWSki]

I have heard different opinions on winter storage, fogging and sea foam. Interestingly for my pontoon Yamaha four stroke it's recommended not to fog but to turn the motor over every 4-5 weeks of winter storage with the safety lanyard pulled. this coats the cylinders with oil. If you have access to your ski boat wouldn't this work just as well for a V8 ?? Pulling the impeller makes a lot of sense to me, thanks for the tip!

[eleeski]

I feel sorry for you guys. Happily I have no clue what you are taking about. Pink what?

I have to go skiing.

Eric

[thager]

@eleeski Yes, you sure don't want to waste the 3 or 4 months you can actually sit in a boat seat without requiring a burn unit, IV, and skin graft team!

[shyskier]

@rawski You can use the cranking method if you stop the fuel flow. unburned fuel will wash oil off cylinders & seep into crankcase. Oil may not get onto cyl. walls very well in most engines it is splashed by the crank. yamaha probly has oil injector ports to spray cyls. Some newer v8 engines may have this also.

air will allow rust to form unless all moisture is removed. ( vaccum )