Baller colo_skier Posted December 9, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 9, 2014 In misconceptions thread @RazorRoss3 and I had different ideas about ZO and the letters. I then saw in the ZO poll that @lpskier stated that ZO switched the A and C around. So my question is does anybody know which ABC setting the z-box emulates of the ZO? From what I feel behind the boat I would say the original ABC of ZO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller DanE Posted December 9, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 9, 2014 @colo_skier If you run the latest version Zbox letters should be the same as current ZO. That said, Zbox will never feel exactly the same as ZO but imho is close enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller RazorRoss3 Posted December 9, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 9, 2014 ZBox is as close as you can get to ZO and works fairly well. To my knowledge ABC 123 mean the same thing across systems since I was on ZBox up until last year and ZO this year. I've always used the same setting between the two although this year I switched down to C1 from C2. Definitely catches you off guard when you accidentally say the old setting and then catch the more aggressive hit when you hook up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted December 9, 2014 Administrators Share Posted December 9, 2014 the few ZBoz boats I have skied behind were not right. PP Classic is a better option to me. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller RazorRoss3 Posted December 9, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 9, 2014 @Horton, where you going from consistently skiing behind ZO to running behind another skiers ZBox boat? I could definitely see that being detrimental because while the pull is similar it is not close enough for the skier to not be able to tell the difference so I could see that screwing with a skier who is behind ZO as their home boat. When I skied ZBox it was my home boat and then I'd ski ZO on weekends and at tournaments so ZBox was my baseline and it wasn't bad to go to ZO every now and then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller DanE Posted December 9, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 9, 2014 @Horton Setting up Zbox to work for shortline slalom is an art. Been in contact with PP several times for support but they really don't get it, or I haven't gotten in touch with the right person. Out of the box background settings are crap if you put it in an SN bubble butt or newer 196. Those boats would realistically be the first choice if you need a cheap slalom tug so I find it a little surprising they didn't work harder to get it right. Let me guess, pull through entrance gates felt a tad soft, same out of buoy 1 then after buoy 2 all hell breaks loose and your chasing the boat until buoy 4 where it finally settles in. Close enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller colo_skier Posted December 9, 2014 Author Baller Share Posted December 9, 2014 @DanE I wrote a thread on exactly the pull description you describe above and what I had to do to fix it. Search for wonky to find it. The reason I brought all this up is that I have a 07 bu with the first year zbox and have it set to C1. It's what I am use to and like. I have been lucky enough to ski behind a few boats with ZO and of course asked for C1. Sometimes I didn't always feel able to ski well behind the boat. It may be a host of things such as I don't ski that well anyway but it would appear that if I want to ensure have a ZO boat react in the same manner as my z-box, I would need to know what year (version) ZO decided to switch A and C operation. I could then ask for A1 or C1 based upon the year (version) of ZO that the boat I was skiing behind had. At least then the pull would be closer to what I am use to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted December 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 10, 2014 I don't have vast experience, but liked @razor1skier's standard SG (drive by wire) better than with z-box. He spent the time to dial it in but I continued to feel that both as a driver and skier that the throttle responses were more brisk than with ZO making it a more difficult pull. One could feel it skiing and hear it driving. I didn't do it to my bubble butt SN at the swamp for two reasons. 1.) my time is seriously limited so I need to get to the lake and get it done...I don't have time to micro-adjust my speed control system so I can ski 2.) even if I did the end result isn't good enough...and I don't have a regular ZO training experience for comparison. If it ain't good enough, I'll keep skiing the other ain't good enough system--PP classic where adjustments are a piece of cake and my ski time is efficient. I haven't liked standard SG on throttle cable boats, either...leaving me back at PP until the big ZO upgrade that I may justify one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller DanE Posted December 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 10, 2014 @6balls I would have to respectfully disagree, latest Zbox version properly dialed is good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GOODESkier Posted December 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 10, 2014 I ski behind my own Zbox boat for 60% of my training and ski the same behind it as I do ZO. As said in all the threads, a lot has to do with setup of the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller colo_skier Posted December 10, 2014 Author Baller Share Posted December 10, 2014 Anybody know when ZO and z-box reversed A and C? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller JC McCavit Posted December 10, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 10, 2014 Anyone comparing PP SG w/zbox to ZO needs to clarify the version they are running. I feel more of a difference between ABC settings behind different manufacturers, Nautique, MasterCraft, Malibu, Centurion with ZO than I do between my zbox equipped BB Nautique with Gt-40, and my ski partners 2008 196 with ZO. I will admit the early version of zbox was a little harsh and had a tendency to run hot around 3 ball, but I do not have that problem with the latest version of the software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller colo_skier Posted December 10, 2014 Author Baller Share Posted December 10, 2014 In my original post to start this I stated that @lpskier stated that at some time ZO switched how A and C are applied. Basically they were reversed. Someone else also stated that z-box followed suite. I am really trying to find out when this occurred since I am using an older version of z-box software. I guess I could just assume everyone else is running newer software for both ZO and z-box and thus a C1 for me is really A1 everywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck_Dickey Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 @colo_skier I never head anything about A&C reversing pull types. Revisions have enhanced the pull an helped Zbox feel more like ZO. Me and several friends lived through the evolution from PP to SG then Zbox, work differently in every carb boats. Much closer in DBW boats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller DanE Posted December 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 11, 2014 @colo_skier I believe Zbox have not been around long enough to have switched letters. The ZO swithing took place before Zbox entered the market. That said, latest version is better (more consistent) than the early ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller colo_skier Posted December 11, 2014 Author Baller Share Posted December 11, 2014 @DanE Now that just shot a hole in one of my excuses for skiing like poop!!!! Anyway thanks everyone looks like I will have to figure out a different excuse. @Chuck_Dickey I had PP in a carb Gekko and now have SG with z-box in 07 Bu. Agree that the DBW is much nicer. Now that I have mine all dialed in I am reluctant to upgrade software. I guess it's just a response to me living the Microsoft upgrade roller coaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ozski Posted December 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 11, 2014 Now if microsoft made speed contol we would have something real to bitch about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller DanE Posted December 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 11, 2014 @colo_skier Then make up some new ones, endless possibilities of excuses for skiing like poop. Seriously, if you have an old version dialed getting the latest dialed should be a piece of cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller LeonL Posted December 11, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 11, 2014 @colo_skier, there has been no switch in the letters with ZO since 1,2,3 were added with Rev Q. That, I believe, was in 2009. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller DanE Posted December 12, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 12, 2014 @efw Have you heard anything about the pure GPS version? (good or bad) Sounds very promising (a real attempt to mimic ZO) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller DanE Posted December 13, 2014 Baller Share Posted December 13, 2014 @efw Had no idea I could leave crew and skier weight out so never tried it. How about pull characteristics, is there any difference between different weight settings or are they there just to tweak baselines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ lpskier Posted December 15, 2014 Baller_ Share Posted December 15, 2014 The A and C swap were between the first and second versions of ZO (maybe as far back as 2006 or 7), long before introducing the 1,2 and 3 sub settings and long before Z Box. I have no idea why they swapped the two designations, and I have no clue whether the original "A" pull was modified in any way when it became "C," and vise versa. Lpskier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Stejcraftben Posted January 4, 2015 Baller Share Posted January 4, 2015 I didn't want to start another zbox thread so I'll just add to this one. I currently have pp star gazer wake edition which I use in slalom mode. I've been skiing at a local club behind boats with zo and I love it. I'm looking to upgrade to three event with a z box. I free ski a lot more then I do in a course so my question is will z box work when free skiing or does it have to be set up as a course for it to work?? Thanks Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller colo_skier Posted January 4, 2015 Author Baller Share Posted January 4, 2015 z-box effects the way the boat responds. Since I don't ski outside of a course I have no experience about how PP works outside of a course. I would assume that PP in z-box mode would respond to the load the same as if it was in a course there would just be nothing to time against. In all of the various discussions about what various boats and set-ups do going around turn islands the course does not seem to be the mechanism for the speed control response just the timing. I am sure someone else will chime in with real world experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller brody Posted January 4, 2015 Baller Share Posted January 4, 2015 I have z box and you can free ski no problem with it outside of a course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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