Baller_ Jody_Seal Posted March 23, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted March 23, 2015 Spring is upon us and everyone want's to get on the water. But getting on the water at any cost can be very dangerous. Installing Automotive parts on an enclosed engine configuration is a NO! NO! Non Ignition protected Marine parts is what happen to this Yellow Malibu (Automotive parts). The second photo is of a guy who had brought me his Cheyenne skier, After opening the engine box we found Automotive Starter, Distributor, Alternator and a fuel supply line set up that was real dangerous. We explained to the customer that we would not work on this boat unless the problem was rectified, The cost was overwhelming for the customer and it was suggested that he park the boat until it was brought up to standards. the customer pleaded that he would sign a waiver that we declined and the photo seen on the right is of this Cheyenne skier parked under the shed of an unscrupulous shop owner in the area. I expect to see this boat in the same configuration as the Malibu , I just pray no one is hurt! If you locals see this boat on any of the local lakes stay as far away as you can it is a floating fire bomb! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boarditup Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Word to the wise. Former USCG here and have seen similar results - with people in the water. Fuel, ignition, starting, hoses, electrical are all marine specific for a reason - paid for in blood and burns. Worst offenders - starters, alternators, fuel pumps, and carbs. You will pay the money either way - up front or on the back end, like in the photos. Great post, Jody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rab Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 My boat is 30 years old and I wouldn't be surprised if some of these critical parts are not original. I know that my alternator, fuel pump and carb are marine. Is there any easy way to visually inspect if my starter is marine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller oldjeep Posted March 23, 2015 Baller Share Posted March 23, 2015 If it is a marine starter it should say SAE Marine on it somewhere and if you were to remove it and look down into where the starter gear is you should not be able to see the motor windings because there would be a spark shield there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibumm Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I am original owner of a 20 year old boat and have not replaced starter. alternator, or fuel pump. I have changed the cap and rotor and plug wires and were told that there was not a marine version of those. Does anyone know if that is true or not, as I no likey burning boat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller oldjeep Posted March 23, 2015 Baller Share Posted March 23, 2015 Typically marine caps have brass terminals, don't think there are any safety related changes in the cap and rotor. The distributor itself is marine specific. Although I do always get caps, rotors, etc from Bakes, or Michigan motors when I get my yearly maint stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted March 24, 2015 Baller Share Posted March 24, 2015 I just have to be a bit contrarian. An engine is an engine regardless of it's application. A fire in a car is a safety hazard as well. Many automotive parts are the same as marine parts. And there needs to be a chain of failures to cause a catastrophe - just a substitute part does not assure an explosion. To be sure, carburators are different. But if you replace the automotive overflow vents with the marine ones, you have the marine carb. Starters can be canabalized for the marine spark damper plates (actually it's easier to take the automotive guts and replace the rusty crappy marine parts to do your own rebuild of the starter). Distributors are tougher but it is possible to mix and match parts to do a successful rebuild. Realistically, buying the proper part from Jody or another marine shop is much easier, safer and in the long run cheaper. But sometimes that is not an option. New boats are harder to apply auto parts to it. They are hard enough to troubleshoot, adding in the questionable auto cross references just makes it so much harder. And the auto parts aren't any cheaper or more available. Use the proper marine parts. Jody's right. But you can survive (at risk) emergency use of automotive parts. When that fuel pump fails and drops raw fuel in the bilge (because it is an auto knockoff) that automotive starter will set off enough sparks to blow you up. But hopefully you will not have the fuel pump fail the first weekend. Have Jody replace the parts when you get home and accept his lectures. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted March 24, 2015 Baller Share Posted March 24, 2015 I just have to be a bit contrarian. An engine is an engine regardless of it's application. A fire in a car is a safety hazard as well. Many automotive parts are the same as marine parts. And there needs to be a chain of failures to cause a catastrophe - just a substitute part does not assure an explosion. To be sure, carburators are different. But if you replace the automotive overflow vents with the marine ones, you have the marine carb. Starters can be canabalized for the marine spark damper plates (actually it's easier to take the automotive guts and replace the rusty crappy marine parts to do your own rebuild of the starter). Distributors are tougher but it is possible to mix and match parts to do a successful rebuild. Realistically, buying the proper part from Jody or another marine shop is much easier, safer and in the long run cheaper. But sometimes that is not an option. New boats are harder to apply auto parts to it. They are hard enough to troubleshoot, adding in the questionable auto cross references just makes it so much harder. And the auto parts aren't any cheaper or more available. Use the proper marine parts. Jody's right. But you can survive (at risk) emergency use of automotive parts. When that fuel pump fails and drops raw fuel in the bilge (because it is an auto knockoff) that automotive starter will set off enough sparks to blow you up. But hopefully you will not have the fuel pump fail the first weekend. Have Jody replace the parts when you get home and accept his lectures. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller oldjeep Posted March 24, 2015 Baller Share Posted March 24, 2015 @eleeski - unless you live in the middle of a desert it isn't that tough to get the correct marine parts for a 350, not sure what "emergency use" of auto parts would be unless you are talking about pulling a starter off your tow vehicle. Around here you can get common Marine parts at Napa, O'reilly or one of the dozens of boat dealers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Intheday Posted March 24, 2015 Baller Share Posted March 24, 2015 Funny this whole conversation as an Australian most of our early (old) boats have marinised car motors in them. By maranised I mean exhaust and water pumps and used standard starter motors and alternators and maybe some maranised carbies but a lot of off the shelf holies. Guess it's what you are used to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boarditup Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 For those asking what the big difference is, here is the scenario: Gasoline vapors will collect at the lowest point. In a car, the engine bay is open to the atmosphere and the vapor dissapate quite easily. The vapor concentation will never get to the Lower Explosive Limit - the minimum amount of gasoline vapor needed to have an explosive mixture. Boat motors are in the hull have a bottom - where the vapors will collect. If there is a leak of fuel, and the primary candidates are hoses, connections, fuel tanks, and pressure relief valves (found on automotive carbs and fuel pumps), the drops of gasoline will vaporize. You can have one of three conditions - concentrations lower than the Lower Explosive Limit, concentrations between the Lower Explosive Limit and the Upper Explosive Limit, and concentrations above the Upper Explosive Limit. If there is a spark - typically from a non-marine grade starter or alternator - and the concentration is below the Lower Explosive Limit, you are safe. The mixture will not ignite. That is why we run the blower for a full two minutes. If the mixture is between the Lower Explosive Limit and the Upper Explosive Limit, the mixture may, or probably will, ignite causing a explosion and likely a fire. The force of the explosion is in direct relationship to the amount of gas vapor available and the amount of confinement it has. Most of the time, it is impressive to watch. If you have a mixture above the Upper Explosive Limit you will not have the explosion as the mixture is too rich to ignite. However, you are not safe because as soon as the air moves and sufficient oxygen replaces the gas vapor, the mixture will then be between the Lower Explosive Limit and the Upper Explosive Limit and it will ignite if you have a spark. This can be seen at fueling docks when the boat goes a short distance and then explodes. This is where most of the deaths and serious burns occur as the boat is typically loaded with people. The United States Coast Guard has standards for many of the critical items that carry fuel or electrical current. Some automotive parts are identical, but some are not. Early boats had lots of fires until the culprits were engineered to be safer. In general, if the part carries fuel or electrical current, make sure it is marine grade. Be safe out there. An emergency on the water can ruin more than your whole day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted March 24, 2015 Baller Share Posted March 24, 2015 @oldjeep I do live in the middle of a desert! Marinized parts are not readily available. Fedex has changed things a lot so I no longer honestly have that excuse. But Chief (now Autozone) saved the day too many times. Not wanting to blow up, I modified those automotive parts to give the features of the marinized parts. My old boats and modified parts gave me decades of good safe service. Still, I do recommend the proper marinized parts. They are easier, more reliable and actually cheaper in the long run. Since you need specialized parts (like impellers) might as well get all the other parts from the marine supplier. BOAT = Break Out Another Thousand Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Jody_Seal Posted March 24, 2015 Author Baller_ Share Posted March 24, 2015 People like @eleeski who understand and try to make their boats correct are not the problem it is the weekend warrior (and we all know one or two of them) that due to lack of finances or just plain ignorance will install and or modify thinking they are working on the street hot rod in the ski / wake boat they own. Generally when These owners are educated and they are shown photos of burned up boats and people they realize the error and it all becomes clear and they fix the issue..... then there are the one's that want on the water and don't care! These are the dangerous one's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower220 Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Use of your blower helps reduce explosive gasses. Regardless of the safeguards on your marinized engine parts, the blower is the key to getting rid of those gasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jhughes Posted March 24, 2015 Baller Share Posted March 24, 2015 @maxpower220 right on. We generally run the blower at all times when the boat is running FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller oldjeep Posted March 24, 2015 Baller Share Posted March 24, 2015 @maxpower220 - nice thing is that the newer boats are smart enough to turn the blower on for you. As soon as you hit the master power switch in the Malibus, the blower comes on and stays on for some period of time or until after you start the boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted March 24, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted March 24, 2015 Quick thread steal...Speaking of blower, mine is starting to sound more like a blender then a blower. Replace it or is there something I can do to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller oldjeep Posted March 24, 2015 Baller Share Posted March 24, 2015 Blowers are cheap and not really serviceable unless something got sucked into it. $32 for the common 3 or 4" replacements http://www.bakesonline.com/SearchResult.aspx?KeyWords=blower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inland Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 @Wish I have the same issue. The Attwood blower that's $32 at Bakes is $16.16 on Amazon FWIW. I just ordered one and I'll take it at half price over Bakes and free shipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted March 24, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted March 24, 2015 @inland link please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inland Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 @Wish Not sure what boat you have, but this is what works in my boat. http://www.amazon.com/Attwood-Blower-Resist-White-3-Inch/dp/B001O0DE9E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427216228&sr=8-1&keywords=attwood+blower+white+3-inch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller alex38 Posted March 24, 2015 Baller Share Posted March 24, 2015 @Jody_Seal Hi, I was troubleshooting my 2002 SN with a pro sport 5.0 last year and replaced a fuel pump, I got it at autozone but it is marine grade. Looks just like the old one but original one had more coating on it. Should I fix that? And I'm ok if this is the stupidest question ever. However, I did have a reputable dealer solve my issue, go thru the engine and he never said anything about pump, I think I even mentioned to him to look at pump to make sure I installed it properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Lovell Posted March 25, 2015 Baller Share Posted March 25, 2015 I know very little about engines, but quite a bit about boating safety and have hundreds if not thousands of hours in competition ski boats. I generally have someone else work on the Nautique save for things like oil changes and impellers. That being said I managed to identify the solenoid as a problem a few years ago. Proud of myself, I went to AutoZone got a new one, put it in and problem solved. Does this pose any safety risk? Been running fine for around 5 years with no issues. I'm sure this comment shows my ignorance about engines, but I don't want to burn up my boat or get anyone hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Jody_Seal Posted March 25, 2015 Author Baller_ Share Posted March 25, 2015 There are many many parts on the current marine configurations that are common to the Automotive side. Parts like relay's, spark plugs, some fuel pumps such as in tank pumps that MC utilizes and many other parts are no different then that of the automotive application. The parts that need to be ignition protected and what are most commonly replaced with Automotive parts are Alternators, Distributors and associated components,starters and Carburetors along with the fuel pump and feed hardware. I see a lot of DYI electrical repairs that are true nightmares. Owners that have to have the biggest baddest audio equipment installing a high amp Automotive alternator. Suggestion is for the DYI person do your home work, ask questions and make sure you are installing the correct part for the application. After all is saving $40 on a part that should be marine designated worth the possibility of injury to your crew or loved ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller oldjeep Posted March 25, 2015 Baller Share Posted March 25, 2015 Looks perfectly safe http://columbus.craigslist.org/boa/4929558645.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Jody_Seal Posted March 25, 2015 Author Baller_ Share Posted March 25, 2015 An open engine configuration not a big deal.... Safe however???? Crazy!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boarditup Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Some soleniods are sealed and are the same as the marinized versions. You can cross-check part numbers to be sure. The typical "Ford" solenoid is fully sealed and is safe. However, some others are not. When in doubt, get the marine version. Autozone and Advance do have the ability to verify the marine application of some parts if you get the right person on the computer. NAPA is much better at marine-specific parts and even has their own catalog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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