Please help my boat issues!

[ricski39]

I have a 1999 Malibu Response which had a pretty substantial leak last season. By substantial I mean that the bilge was in constant operation. When I looked under the boat for the source of the leak I saw that there were some sizable cracks around the rudder. So I asked around the area for a reputable boat fiberglass repair shop and dropped the boat off. I picked the boat up about a week later and everything looked great.

 

However...I dropped the boat in my pond last weekend for a couple of sets with my girlfriend and noticed that the boat, when operating at 34-36 mph tends to "slide". As I'm driving down the course the back end will slip out, I'll over steer to correct, and it will slip out again. This will happen about three times during the length of the course. It drives fine at trick speeds but it keeps you on your toes when driving slalom. I'm hoping that someone has experienced something like this before because I really don't want to turn into a dedicated tricker.

When I pulled the boat out I checked the rudder hoping that it was loose and it would be an easy fix. No such luck.

 

My new theory, as I sit here at work, is that when I get up to slalom speed the new glass is putting air to the prop and the cup of the prop is pulling it one direction. However I'm not totally sure if I remember it only sliding in one direction. I had a constant "oh shit" look on my face all the way down the course.

 

Any remedies, theories, or black magic would be greatly appreciated.

[Horton]

@ricski39 are you saying that when the glass shop was done fixing the bottom of the boat => the shape of your boat had changed? They added to the bottom of boat?

[Jody_Seal]

Scary! Some photo's may be in order.

[ricski39]

@Horton The botom of the boat doesn't look any different when I gave it the eye test. But that's the only thing that I could think of that would cause the slipping in the back end. As if the back end of the boat is getting lift now and slides out. Maybe a giant spoiler on the back end would do the trick. I could be a trend setter.

[Tidbury]

You aren't missing a tracking fin are you? I have a Malibu Sportster that came with only two tracking fins and has the same "slippery" back end when in the course.

[ricski39]

All three of the fins a present and accounted for. I'm trying to upload some pictures now.

[ricski39]

It seems that I can't copy .JPG files here from my computer. Am I missing something?

[oldjeep]

@ricski39 - I assume you are using Internet Explorer. The file upload doesn't work for IE on a pc for some reason, but does work with IE on a Windows Phone. It works with Chrome last time I checked.

[ricski39]

 

[Jody_Seal]

my neck hurts!

[oldjeep]

Have you got any before pictures?

 

Just curious, what does that repair job look like up close? Seems odd that the gel coat over the repair actually looks darker than the old gel - looks grey.

[boarditup]

An easy test is to fill in the area between the rudder bolting plate and the pocket with silicone. If you have caviation that is in that area filling in where the "bubbles" hang out may change it a bit. I also noticed a ding in your prop, that can also cause similar issues. Try the quick and low cost thing first. If they did take out the "hook" in that area, you may have some grinding ahead of you.

[ricski39]

Sorry, no before pictures. My flux capacitor has been acting up. And yes, @Jody_Seal my neck is hurting now also. But now that I'm looking at these pictures again I'm wondering if when the boat gets up to 34-36 mph the new fiberglass is causing the boat to lift, then slows down enough to sit back in the water, I steer to correct it, then it gets back up to whatever this critical speed is, and then it lifts out of the water again.

Sorry if that's confusing, but it made sense in my head.

[MISkier]

Is the rest of the bottom stained from water? I wonder if the cleaning in that one spot to do the repair has produced an imbalance with the rest of the hull. One thing I would try is to clean the entire bottom of the boat to be more uniform (either via StarBrite Instant Hull Cleaner or wet sanding or both). Perhaps that repair area has different "grip" than the rest.

[MattP]

The patch area of the boat looks substantially cleaner than the rest of the hull. Could a cleaning product be too slick causing the boat not to sit in the water rather ride on top?

[MISkier]

@MattP, great minds.

 

If you ever saw the Jimmy Fallon "Tankman" sequence, the line "That's what I just @$!%&? said, Phil" comes to mind.

[gregy]

I'd check all the link connection etc on the rudder. They may have not tightened something or put a part on wrong. Might try grinding some on the rudder to give it some tension.

 

Also looks like some rope pieces stuck on the prop could there have been more. My buddy's MC gets loose when weeds wrap in the prop.

[jhughes]

As an aside, is that the original CVP stainless prop? Those were known to self-destruct by throwing blades on that era Malibu. Any modern CNC prop will be a HUGE upgrade on that boat.

 

If I had water intrusion issues on that era Malibu the first place I'd look is the HDS Box, very common leaking point on those boats.

 

If there are cracks in the fiberglass around the rudder that are literally leaking water then I can't imagine what happened to the boat and wouldn't know where to start.

[bbruzzese]

May be as simple as re-tuning your rudder...was there more steering torque prior to the repair?

[ricski39]

@jhughes I had the HDS Box repaired at the begining of last season assuming that would stop the leak. When the leak persisted is when I noticed the cracks around the rudder.

[OTF]

Could someone with a 99 post a few pics for comparison, although I really doubt it's the glass repair.

[ricski39]

@OTF That's a good call. I just posted a new thread asking if anyone has, or knows someone with a 99' Response. Here's to hoping.

[mrpreuss]

 

[mrpreuss]

There is a recess up into the hull on mine, anyone know if it's the same hull 99-00?

I thought it's the same hull as the 2015 LXR

[MISkier]

They have had that exact hull on the LX from 1999 (1998, too, I think) to now and it is also the hull for the new LXR. I have a 2009 LX.

[A_B]

My WAG. It looks like the repair area is wet sanded and not buffed out like the rest of the hull. Wet sanded finishes are faster in the water so slippier because there is no suction with the water surface. I would put a grind on the back right edge of the rudder and put some torque on it.

 

Does the steering wheel turn to right when you are at speed?

[ricski39]

@A_B Yes the steering will pull right when I'm at slalom speed. It looks like the issue may be that when the guy repaired the hull he got rid of that recessed area behind the rudder.

[MattP]

@ricski39 looks like he too the hook out of the hull.

[eleeski]

Another thought (since I totally don't buy that a small area of polish could have an effect) is the rudder alignment correct? If glass work was done to the rudder box attachment it might not take much to change the rudder angle with a possibly large effect on handling. Shim to test alignment changes.

 

The hook in the hull could have an effect. Look for asymmetry side to side. That could cause your problems. Flattening the hook could do something but I have no clue what. Intuitively, less hook would make the back ride lower and more stable.

 

The bubbler and the micro wedge I tried on the back of the MC didn't affect handling. Sounds like a rudder or steering system issue.

 

Eric

[DW]

@ricski39: do you have access to another Response / Echelon / Sunsetter? If yes, I would suggest you do a comparison on rudder position / angle (both fore/aft and side axis) to see if the rudder is in the same position as previous. Also, check the rudder mount pad for location (vertically and angle to level). Another check should be the steering system, too much play might feel like the boat is slipping as your correction will be delayed. From the pictures, I doubt the surface finish contributes to the effect in question, but a deviation from the design (bump or depression) could certainly contribute). Any other changes or repair areas done at the same time?

[mrpreuss]

Correction on previous thought of recess

there is a slight curve in the tail behind the rudder, NO recess

the first pic is behind rudder to center of back

the second is behind rudder to the side of the rudder, trere is a curve in the tail NO recess

 

[ricski39]

@DW All good things to check. That repair to the bottom of the hull was the only thing that changed from last season.

[MJE]

It's hard to tell for sure, but looking at the third pic it appears the rudder may be mounted on an angle?

 

[ricski39]

@MJE I see what you're saying, but I think that's just the angle that the rudder was turned when I took the picture.

[MJE]

I'm was looking more at rudder mounting plate in relation to the bottom of the boat.

 

[MattP]

@ricski39 have you asked the guy who did the work what all he did to the hull?

[ricski39]

@MattP I haven't paid that guy a visit yet. I just noticed the issue when I took the boat out last Sunday the 12th. It rained here all last weekend so I never got a chance to get out and take another look under then hull. I'm going to take a trick set after work today and will take another look at my hull armed with the notes I've taken from this thread.

[Gar]

I am suspecting even slight changes on the hull can affect steering. I eliminated the HDS box by installing a shaft log on a 1996 Response and did a good bit of fiberglass work where the shaft comes out. After the work, the steering and tracking were not the same. I sold the boat to my brother (that comes with a lifetime brother warranty) and he has used it for years on a river for recreational skiing. Despite installing a new steering cable and checking all components, the boat steering is stiff, it seems to drift or slip sometimes in turns, and does not turn as well to the right verses the left. I wonder if grinding the rudder will help this one?