Howa1500 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Seriously considering the radar senate or HO CX for next years season. I love you BOS users, you guys have great tips and advice. Can anyone help me out here? And hardcore slalomers have or use either of these skis? Just looking for an overview and some opinions on this ski. Would also love to know the main difference between the graphite and alloy, except for the graphite is more $expensive$. Was also thinking about the TX.....thanks guys! 5'10" 170 32-34 mph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller TallSkinnyGuy Posted September 30, 2015 Baller Share Posted September 30, 2015 I was just looking at the Radar brochure and it describes the "Graphite" as 100% carbon composite laminates with the PU core while the Alloy is also a PU core but with Carbon/Glass combo laminates. They describe the Alloy as more forgiving, which I assume means its reaction time is a little slower. Personally, I very much like the forgiving nature of the PU/Carbon/Glass ski I had for a couple years and I also liked that it was relatively damp which made it feel smoother and more stable to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member TustinTom Posted September 30, 2015 Supporting Member Share Posted September 30, 2015 I am no hardcore slalom "course" skier (I am struggling to make 15 off). However, I have both the HO TX Superlite and the Senate Graphite. One of my ski partners had the HO Coex. At those speeds AND in the right hands, those skis are all exceptional in and out of the course. It is truly the Warrior and not the weapon. @Horton has reviews on the Senate, Senate Lithium and Coex/CX. You can watch manufacturer videos of guys (pros) ripping it up on those skis. My impressions, couched with me being 6'4, 255lbs, 50 yrs old TX Superlite: Very forgiving/stable and doesn't sink at 28mph. Plenty of room for me to grow. Trying to learn the course at slower speeds, truly a fast ski when in good body position. Not a ski you can "hook". Not a damp ski (it's a Superlite core). Widest of three. Senate Graphite: Forgiving/stable, Turns great. Fast pretty much everywhere and I will never see it's potential. Fun out of the course at 34-36. A little damper than the Superlite series. HO CX Superlite: From watching my partner ski, and having its wider big brother. This ski is fast, a little harder to get up on (narrower than other two), but turns faster. Again a very competent ski that would never see its potential in our boat. I would say you could easily embrace any of the skis you mentioned, as they all have plenty to offer and are pretty tried and true winners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howa1500 Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 What exactly is a "damp" ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller TallSkinnyGuy Posted September 30, 2015 Baller Share Posted September 30, 2015 A "damp" ski is one that absorbs fluctuations in the water surface more. When I switched from my ski with the PU core and carbon/glass laminate (the damp ski) to a ski with a PVC core and nearly 100% carbon laminate I was astounded at how I could feel every ripple in the water with the new ski. I think that is why many people recommend using a more damp ski if you often ski in public water or conditions that are rarely perfect. The damp ski provides a smoother ride, but for shortline ballers who want faster response from their ski they care less about the smoother ride and more about the responsiveness. For most of us that level of responsiveness is unnecessary and a damp ski may provide a more enjoyable riding experience. It all depends on what your goals are and what you care about most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingshredd Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I have a 2014 CX Superlight and really like it and it is getting me started in the course. I did demo the Senate before buying and the CX won it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bill22 Posted September 30, 2015 Baller Share Posted September 30, 2015 @kingshredd do you remember which Senate you tried? Graphite or Alloy? In 2014 the Senate got the Vapor shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingshredd Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 It was the alloy and I believe the 2013 model year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bill22 Posted September 30, 2015 Baller Share Posted September 30, 2015 I was asking because I have the Senate with the Strata shape and I am thinking about upgrading to a Senate with the Vapor shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jpattigr Posted October 1, 2015 Baller Share Posted October 1, 2015 Hi Bill, I made the switch this year in Senate's and went with the Graphite. Very happy with the new ski. Biggest difference is I can slow the speed down and work on new line lengths with the new Senate much easier. I am 6'5" and about 235lbs and both are 69". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Glydon Posted October 1, 2015 Baller Share Posted October 1, 2015 @Howa1500 another ski you may want to consider is the Connelly V or Carbon V ... another great ski to add to the above mentioned ski's which are also great. Horton did a great review of it and the first time I skied the V it was not released to the public , all black top and white bottom with not even a branding on it. Kyle Eade hooked me up on it at SkiFluid. I was at home on it from the first pass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Chef23 Posted October 1, 2015 Baller Share Posted October 1, 2015 The Senate and the CX are a little bit different when it comes to shape. The Senate is a wider version of Radar's skis. The CX is a narrower ski. Either will ski well at 34 mph though but the Senate might be a little more stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howa1500 Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 What's the difference in the "core" of the skis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller TallSkinnyGuy Posted October 2, 2015 Baller Share Posted October 2, 2015 Generally only the top-of-the-line skis have a PVC core and they are usually priced at over $1K. Most modern skis under the top models have a PU core. The Senate Lithium has a PVC core but the other versions have a PU core. I think HO calls them "superlite" versions when they have a PVC core (Radar's "Lithium" is HO's "Superlite"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller savaiusini Posted October 5, 2015 Baller Share Posted October 5, 2015 @Howa1500 allow me to shed a little light on the CX shape... First off, you are right in the sweet spot with the 67" at 32-34mph. While the ski is a touch narrower than some of our competitors, the 67" CX is essentially the width of a 68" Syndicate ski so there is plenty of support at lower speeds. We make the CX in two core constructions but they both come out of the same mold. The standard CX is a machined PU core and has a glass/carbon layup. The result is a ski that has a more quiet and dampened feel that rides a little lower in the water; equally perfect for open water ripping and skiing the course. The Superlite CX is made with our PVC core material and has a full carbon layup. This ski is geared more for course than the standard CX and comes with our fully adjustable Syndicate fin. Both skis rotate beautifully around the buoy and build great angle. The clean edge tail reduces drag on the skier and creates lift in the tail. Superlite CX is probably one of the most underrated skis in the market today. Its fast, lively and fully capable of -35 or -38 if you want to take it there. I can't tell you how many people I've put on this ski who have improved their buoy count AND their consistency. The SL CX sells for $899; a full $550 less than a V-Type R... Sam Avaiusini - HO Sports Company - Director of Inside Sales and Business Operations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howa1500 Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 Thanks for the comments everyone, anyone else have some great skis for the course???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller TallSkinnyGuy Posted October 6, 2015 Baller Share Posted October 6, 2015 Stop your research now, pick a mid-range ski and go enjoy it. Start with a mid-range ski that has a PU core (Connelly V, Radar Senate, HO CX/TX) and once you are killing it at 28 off start demoing other skis to see if you like anything better. I tend to over-research and over-think these things, too, but there are significant diminishing returns on your time spent reading about skis and other people's thoughts on skis. If you can't demo then just pick one and go. The top ski companies are doing a great job of producing very good skis that are easy to ride but yet quite high performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howa1500 Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 That's exactly how I am, I think I've narrowed it down to a couple of skis and then I see a different one that becomes a candidate...... Leaning towards the radar senate, I'm an intermediate skier but I'm sure my choice with change 10 times by next ski season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller aupatking Posted October 6, 2015 Baller Share Posted October 6, 2015 I haven't skied the Senate. I have skied the Vapor and the theory. I have skied the A3 and the CX(not super lite). I found the CX far less technically demanding than either Radar. I very much liked the Radars, and feel they could help you improve but, the CX was, out of the box, impressive. I was running -15 up to -32 @ 32 on the CX with almost no adjustment. People love the Senate, so much that they're hard to find on SIA. I'm sure you'll hear the same good stories about the Senate, but that's my experience. I just happen to have really liked the CX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howa1500 Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 Great reviews on both skis!!! Still can't decide, might have to demo both skis. Really looking at whether I want a ski that I can free ski on and use on the course or just a "course only" ski (higher end skis). What is the difference between these categories of skis, does it have to do with the PU vs PVC core or the flex etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bill22 Posted October 6, 2015 Baller Share Posted October 6, 2015 @Howa1500 "course only ski"? you can take any ski out and freeski. High performance skis are not so good that they aren't fun freeskiing. If you can't decide based on ski performance (either will work good for you) use price or graphics to decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller oldjeep Posted October 6, 2015 Baller Share Posted October 6, 2015 I think his point is that you can freeski some pretty choppy water on the right ski where it can be downright scary on a skinny performance ski. Used to have a kd powercarve and you could safely ski that thing in big rollers down the middle of lake Minnetonka, same water is downright dangerous on my senate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogboy Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 @Howa1500, I really like my 69" cx sl. It is the best overall ski I have owned so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller dchristman Posted October 6, 2015 Baller Share Posted October 6, 2015 The Dove Oracle says: No wonder women love this chocolate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bill22 Posted October 6, 2015 Baller Share Posted October 6, 2015 @oldjeep good point. I ski public water but on the River if the wind is east to west we go around the bend and it's smooth. If wind is N to S just go up one more bend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howa1500 Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 @oldjeep is right, not necessarily looking for a ski that I can't use while I free ski (which isn't possible, all skis can be free skied on) but I'm really looking to do mostly 70% course skiing next year. Really deciding if I want a higher end ski such as the super lite HO CX skis or the less advanced regular CX. The radar vapor or the senate. I'm sure both categories of skis can handle its own on the course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller aupatking Posted October 7, 2015 Baller Share Posted October 7, 2015 Like I said @Howa1500 I just got off a 2014 Green Vapor, which I liked a lot but, especially your offside, it wants you skiing very technically correct. Read Horton's review of the blue vapor. If you get one, get the blue one. Otherwise, save the money and get the CX. I almost bought mine back, in the time i was between skis. I'm not a good enough skier to say the Vapor isn't as good a ski, but i found success more easily with the CX, more fun too. Again that was a lot of -15 to -28 at 32mph. I haven't been back on it since I moved to 34mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howa1500 Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 I'm thinking I might just have to demo a bunch of skis, probably the best way to do it. I greatly appreciate the comments everyone!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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