US Open & Big Dawg Results

[DanE]

Speaking of the thread title, where are the results?

[wtrskior]

@wish it's not the 80's and 90s any longer where getting into 37' was a feat. These were the same tournaments that held 4 buoy courses and we're highly populated. You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth. You feel skiers want 6 buoys but non skiers can't understand what line off means.

 

It's pretty simple. The skier who goes around the most buoys at the shortest line, wins.

 

It's just as easy to know that 39 feet off is shorter than 38 feet off just as 35.5 is shorter than 37 feet. America and americans refuse to join the world with the metric system and for that reason I'm affraid you are stuck with the off designations. Please Give it a rest, it's tiresome constantly reading it.

[Wish]

@wtrskior agree on meters. Would be better to anounce that way here on the US. Would actually make it easier for public to understand and folks would get a nice lesson in the metric system.

 

As for both sides of my mouth..that's kinda funny. You may want to reread my posts on this matter. And if you still mostly disagree that much and just want the same you probably need to find all my posts related to this on other threads and place your disagree next to all the likes. Actually you may find you agree more then not. And thank you Freddy Winter for the like and having an open mind to new pissabilities in keeping our sport at the forefront of inovation and willingness to discus.

 

 

[wtrskior]

@wish I disagree it would be better to announce meters in Florida. Americans by and large have no idea what a metre even is! Just stick with what has been working for 50 years...

 

What I meant by suggesting you are saying 2 conflicting things is that 4 buoy courses and speaking in how long the rope is in feet were things that were common place during the bud pro tour days, when there were thousands of fans.

 

I'd suggest that neither of the 2 things you suggest are paramount to the success of these events. I have read other posts of yours on the subject and in the past you've suggested concessions and access being important, and that I would agree with you.

 

The biggest problem with the US open was the total lack of promotion (I knew people involved with it who were asking me in September if I knew anything about it & I come here for my info! - Ridiculous).

 

There should never have been a big dawg in combination with it either, but that has been beaten to death.

 

I think it was @liquidD who I believe hit the nail on the head - just look at the MC throwdown - some of the biggest publicity the sport has had in ages. Attach it to other extreme sport, music festivals, and food/drink events. You have mentioned these things and I'd suggest to focus on that and get involved - you are local and tapped into the ski community.

 

I am a die hard skier and most waterski events are totally boring to attend - for me a skier! Put on a ski show at the same time, a jet ski race, wakeboard big air contest, music festival, ramp dirtbikes, etc. Something else to attach our sport to, in order for the public to actually enjoy themselves a few times a year.

[MattP]

@Wish I find it really funny that @TFIN has said MULTIPLE times that the fact that is 4 ball does NOT matter to him or the skiers in attendance. I got a phone call from another Pro skier last night who skied in the Open and he said they are all fine with the 4 ball course. It's not like everyone is running a full 4@41 and getting into 43. The cutoff for the finals was the highest in the sports history. KC got a PB with a piece of 4@41 and did not make the cut. While everyone here is ignoring that fact and keeps saying how it is not fun to watch.

 

The 4 buoy course actually levels out the playing field with Nate a little. He is capable of running 4@41 almost every time he skis. He also has not been past 2@43 in a few years. The whole finals field made it to 4 in the prelims. In theory everyone there had the same shot at winning as Nate did. For me it made it one of the most interesting finals we have seen a LONG time.

 

 

@wtrskior as for the slalom final results. None have been posted to the USOpen or Nautique FB Page, Twitter, Website or Waterskiresults.com or scorebooks posted to USAWaterski. As far as I know there has been no press release from the event organizers. I have a friend getting them who works at Nautique

 

Prelim Scores

Skier R1

1 Smith Nate 1@43

2 Asher William 4@41

2 Winter Frederick 4@41

4 Vaughn Corey 3.25@41

5 Howley Joel 3.5@41

6 Wilson K.C. 3.25@41

7 McClintock Jason 3@41

8 Degasperi Thomas 3@41

9 Odvarko Daniel 2.5@41

10 Travers Jonathan 2.5@41

11 Brantley Tom 2@41

12 Sedlmajer Adam 2@41

13 Ronkko Petari 2@41

14 Bartalsky Martin 2@41

15 Parrish Chris 1.5@41

16 Adams Nicholas 0.5@41

17 Campbell Glenn 3@39

18 Kolman Martin 2.5@39

19 Wingerter Dave 2.5@39

20 Winter Terry 1.5@39

21 Detrick Brian 4.5@38

22 Font Diego 1@38

 

1 Jaquess Regina .5@41

2 McClintock Whitney 1@41

3 Lucine Clementine 2@39

4 Costard Manon 2@39

5 Baldwin Brooke 2@39

6 Adriaensen Kate 1.5@39

7 Truelove Karen 1.5@39

8 Franc Ambre 1@39

9 Welter Claire-lis 5@38

10 Dumala Samantha 3@38

11 Dodd Breanne 2.5@38

12 Austin Bailey 1.5@38

13 Krueger Geena 1.5@38

[LeonL]

The prelim scorebook from Travers IS posted on USAWS site, however the finals scorebook (sanctioned as a different tournament) has NOT been posted as of just a few minutes ago. Same chief scorer, so???

[Wish]

@wtrskior haha we do agree on most everything. And I wish the US would have gone metric. All that waisted time in grade school learning it for nothing. And it's soooo much easier.

 

@MattP Honestly, the pros can have their opinion plus or minus on if they care for a 4 ball or 6. What does the fan base want to see with the most prestigious waterski event?. The ones that support their endeavors. I suggest if you took a poll that simply asked which you'd rather have at the U.S. Open..., 6 ball course would win by a wide margin, even if you added that the pros didnt mind a 4 ball. Simple...and @wtrskior even agrees..better show or better location. Can't image the pros disagreeing with that. For some fans it apears that's just to much to ask for I guess. Would actually like to hear @TFIN chime in. :-)

And thanks for the scores!!!

 

Why no run off for second place? Or did I miss something?

 

 

[skierjp]

FYI while helping Nautique set up for the US Open I paid special attention to the idea of 2 courses side by side. Not a good idea. The course that would be towards the middle of the lake would be too far away plus I think it would add to the confusion.

[Wish]

Jim, add to confusion..no. Last man standing wins..easy. That just looks soooo cool.

 

 

 

As to the set up, after being there I agree. And even though it's a 4 ball, one end is crazy tight turn ins. Also the second being set so far out exposes it to more wind. So who gets that course?. Spoke to a BD at the tournament and he actually likes that idea and started to brainstorm ways around who gets what course. He sounded rather excited about the idea but the turns could be a big hurdle.

[jcamp]

@Wish said "Would actually like to hear @TFIN chime in."

 

He did chime in. Then you berated him with a billion different questions, which is pretty much how you've responded to everyone else on this thread. You've asked some good questions and raised some good points. Thank you for that. Seriously. And others have given good answers, even though you might not agree with them. Perhaps it's time to just move on and go skiing, since you are one of the few of us who can actually still ski right now!

[Wish]

What I do try to do is NOT exaggerate, name call and the like. "berate" "billion"..really? I'd like to see him chime in on my few questions. And I have liked and acknowledged other points of view and agreed with some even with the name calling and exaggerations. And I even agree with you...time to ski.

[Ed_Johnson]

As far as the Feet vs Meters thing, a good announcer can do both at the same time. For Example: "Coming into the course now is Nate Smith on a 11 meter line at 38 off."

How hard is that, and everybody is Happy.

 

As far as the 4 Buoy course, I was there and the people around me did not know the difference. Their excitement level was based on how ENTHUSIASTIC the announcer "HYPED" what was going on. I do believe they liked the Head to Head when that was going on, and that could trump the side to side that would have been really difficult to set up and view, as Jim said for this site.

They also liked the fact that the skiers starting dock was right up front in the middle and they had really good access to the skiers themselves.

 

 

One of the most popular aspects was the fact of the HUGE full service bar setup, right in the middle, where they could enjoy drinks and watch the skiers at the same time. That area was always full.

 

Overall, I believe those involved, who worked there Butt's off to put this on, did a GREAT JOB with the area and conditions they had to work with. My THANKS go out to them and the Sponsors for promoting this event in Orlando.

 

 

[klindy]

@MattP was the US Open only a slalom tournament? Thanks for the slalom scores, but where are the trick/jump scores. Freddy won by 0.1 meter (about 4" for those metric challenged). Tricks were equally close. And both trick and jump were "per the rules" and not shortened or altered to accommodate the site.

 

Along with the Masters the US Open is arguably the most prestigious 3-event tournament we have. Please don't leave the other two events out.

[GOODESkier]

@klindy there were tricks and jump? JUST KIDDING! Good points that both those events were at par so to speak.

[MattP]

@klindy

yes yes yes! Long live 3 event! I had the slalom scores readily available in my BallOfSpray rankings list. I will grab the trick and jump scores. Note Adam Pickos got a PB during the event.

[MattP]

Freddy Krueger 228 217

Ryan Dodd 227 217

Bojan Schipneer 215 214

Damien Sharman 220 206

Igor Morozov 218 200

Thomas Asher 216

Scot Ellis 214

Jason Seels 214

Zack Worden 210

Martin Kolman 196

Pieter Lagae 177

Corbin Guyer 171

 

Jacinta Carroll 183 175

Regina Jaquess 168 171

Nancy Chardin 177 157

Lauren Morgan 160 152

Whitney McClintock 155 144

Kate Adriaensen 140

Maj Jepsen 104

 

Aliaksei Zharnasek 12000 12020

Adam Pickos 11210 11520

Frank Desboyaux 10830 11230

Josh Briant 11440 10990

Russell Gay 10570 9050

Martin Kolman 10270

Guillaume Tetreault 9760

Adam Sedlmajer 9120

Kevin Jack 8780

Patricio Font 8740

Jason McClintock 8630

Tobias Giorgis 5940

Pierre Ballon 5370

 

Anna Gay 8970 9920

Erika Lang 8700 9000

Regina Jaquess 8470 8470

Neilly Ross 9120 8290

Clementine Lucine 9040 8240

Alex Laurentano 8070

Brooke Baldwin 7750

Paige Rini 7290

Whitney McClintock 6740

Kate Adriaensen 4770

[MattP]

Video archive has started to go up from the finals. All of Big Dawg and Trick finals are currently up.

 

http://www.webcast-tv.com/channel/usopen

[skihard]

Has anyone ever considered just announcing what line length the skier is entering the course at vs what amount has been taken off the rope?

 

I certainly haven't been around this game as long as others but it sure is funny every time I have company over or people who or new to the sport in my boat as me

 

"What does 28 off mean?"

 

So when I answer them the first reply is usually "Isn't that a bit stupid? I mean the rope is now only 47 feet long. Why wouldn't you say the skier is coming into the course with a rope length of only 47 ft"

 

I get the theory behind it for us as skiers because it's what i know but I am left shaking my head on occasion and wonder the same thing when trying to help people understand the sport.

[Horton]

@skihard

Look on the left RIGHT side of this page.... See the skier animation - just above the instagram? Click on it to see the metric, imperial and deltas

[9400]

No...you're other left

[Horton]

Haaaa

[MarcusBrown]

Couldn't keep my mouth shut, and have been on the outside, thinking a lot about these topics...so I Blogged

 

http://marcusbrown.net/the-way-forward

 

[MattP]

@MarcusBrown Very well said!

[GregDavis]

MARCUS, YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD. WE ARE ALL IN THIS BECAUSE WE LOVE IT, HAVE A PASSION FOR IT, ETC. NOT FOR THE $$ BUT BECAUSE THE LOVE OF THE SPORT. WE ARE TOO SMALL OF A GROUP TO BE FRAGMENTED. ( AS WE ARE TODAY) IN MY OPINION, THE US OPEN, SHOULD ABSOLUTELY BE IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE US NATIONALS. WE NEED TO REACH OUT TO THAT 8 YEAR OLD BOY OR GIRL. AS THE PROS REACHED OUT TO YOU MARCUS. VERY WELL WRITTEN, THANK YOU, GREG DAVIS

 

Below is some of what Marcus wrote:

 

The year is 1987. The World has 2,200,000,000 less people than it does today, the Giants beat John Elway in the Super Bowl, Richard Branson makes the first Transatlantic flight in a Hot Air Balloon (2,790 miles) & Freddy Krueger is a serial killer….and a 3 event skier.

 

I remember that Plane flight like it was last year though, because it was my first time in an Airplane. Scared, excited, and eagle eyeing out the window harder than anyone in history…there was soooo much to see!!!! And everything looked unlike anything I’d ever seen before….houses, roads, lakes, mountains….all the stuff I’d already become familiar with in my 8 years of life….but it all looked so different from up here.

 

As we made our approach into West Palm Beach Int’l Airport, I remember looking out the window and pointing to the trees and asking my dad “DAD DAD, look at those trees!!!….they look like pine trees!!??…how is that possible??!” See, on the west coast, in my world, I had only ever seen pine trees in the mountains…where it snows. I knew Florida had neither of those things, so it blew my mind.

 

Okeeheelee Park at Sunset, site of the 1987 US Water Ski Nationals and US Open

Okeeheelee Park at Sunset, site of the 1987 US Water Ski Nationals and US Open

 

A couple days later, after my brother competed in his first U.S. Water Ski Nationals, my mind was about to be blown again. Every year back in those days, the Nationals week always finished off with the US Open on the weekend. It was my second year skiing, and I knew all the names of the best in the World…but I’d never seen them ski anywhere other than on TV (remember when water skiing was on ESPN?).

 

The weekend didn’t disappoint.

 

As an 8 year old kid with stars in my eyes….here’s what I remember. These guys were INSANE!!! Some guy no one had ever heard of, Jeff Rodgers, showed up and cranked the shit out of some 1,3,5’s. I remember the rumor being that he’d just started skiing a few years before and ran the slalom course the first time he ever tried it. That, to my little pea-brain, was hard to fathom. And here he was already fighting to beat the best in the World. A West Coast hero of mine, Carl Roberge, ended up tying for 2nd at that US Open, right before my eyes. In 1987 he was the defending Tour champion. (5 years later Terry Winter and I were chasing Carl’s Jr Boys Western Regional slalom record…3 @ 35 off) Andy Mapple Won the US Open that year. I had 2 hero’s before getting to watch that US Open….Bob & Kris LaPoint. They were West Coast skiers, and legends around the World. In 1987 Bob LaPoint won the World Slalom Title at Thorpe Park, London (5th World Title) and won at Marine World (4 Buoy Course) and the MasterCraft invitational. When I left Okeeheelee, I had a 3rd hero: Andy Mapple. I wanted to be out there someday, doing what those guys did…pushing the limits. (*FYI, Kjellander had best performance of 1987 with 4.5 @ 39 at Augusta Tour Stop)

 

I believe it was that same year, interestingly enough, that ESPN decided to broadcast some of the amateur nationals. I remember Boys slalom, and Mark Shaw running buoys with a baseball cap (no Schnitz, you weren’t the first) to keep the rain out of his eyes. I also remember the Mens 3 battle….it was Clinton Knox and Wayne VanWay. They were 2 of the best, and they were polar opposites on the water: VanWay was the first person I ever saw that could slam both his onside AND his offside turns. In fact, I believe he could slam his offside better! It was like watching a grizzly bear getting drug behind the boat. Clinton Knox didn’t do anything,…didn’t turn, didn’t pull…but made buoys. I think he might be Nate Smith’s grandpa or something.

 

 

 

Here’s the point: those guys were great skiers,..talented, dedicated, etc. But they weren’t the reason I wanted to become a Skier. The US Open was the seed planted….it was everything I needed as a kid looking for something to hold onto…and it was a pivotal moment in my “career”….the moment that sparked everything that was to come.

 

[liquid d]

The Open at the Nationals was always great! If the Open is to be separate, it can still be great; but they need to be open to ideas.

[Freddie Winter]

First off before I say anything else I would like to say I enjoyed the US Open a lot. It was my first time skiing in this type of event on a 4 bouy course on a big public lake and it was a lot of fun. I was pretty happy with how I skied and I took home more money than I left with. Grateful for all the organisers did for us etc.

 

I can see everyones point about the 4 bouy course not being perfect. For me as a skier it dumbed down the sport a little (3 big turns instead of 5) and I can get how the viewer might not see it with the same level of interest as the loss of those turns and their potential for a fall lessens the drama. However, the lake wasn't big enough for a six buoy and I definitely think the tradeoff of losing a couple of buoys was worth it to get the ski out in front of people that don't usually see the sport.

 

I am definitely with @Wish on this one in terms of describing the length of the line in feet off etc. Why on earth, if we are trying to sell this sport to those who have no idea what is going on, would we talk about the rope being so many feet less than a line length that no one slaloms on anymore? It's insanity. I understand that this is how it's been done over here forever (and I appreciate I am a happy guest in America) but when someone asks me how long the lake is I don't tell them it's 400 feet less than 2000. Because that would be confusing and stupid. To make slaloming understandable and therefore interesting to the uninitiated we need to tell them that at some point the line is shorter than the distance to the buoy line, and by how much. I'm not saying talk in metres, as that would again make it opaque to the majority, but tell them in feet. Its just under 38 feet to the buoy line and there are skiers that turn buoys when the line is 32 feet long! This is awesome and needs to be communicated. I remember when @MarcusBrown was commentating at the amazing Calgary Shootout last year he made this point. If we are going to communicate our sport to newbies it cannot be in reference to an irrelevant 75 foot line.

 

One more thing. When I was driving to the event at 10am there was a ton of traffic on the motorway right next to the lake. I could see the skiing. Russell Gay was tricking. It looked awesome. However, if I wasn't already involved in the sport, I would have had no idea if it was a tournament and if it was, which one. I'd have probably assumed it was bloody wakeboarding. Basically if I'd wanted to google it from my phone I would have had zero idea what to search and if I'd wanted to go watch I'd have had no idea where. After all the good work that all the organisers did it was a shame not to have some banners next to the road/ floaty things on the lake to show what was going on. Thousands of cars passed by a ski tournament in the 'home of water skiing' and had no idea what was going on. For me, these are the small opportunities that can make a big difference in terms of increasing participation and viewership.

 

@MarcusBrown, loved the blog post. This is why we love you.

[Than_Bogan]

Dammit. Now I have a man-crush on Freddie Winter. The guy speaks better than I do, writes better than I do, and skis waaaay better than I do. And those are three things I'm pretty decent at. @FWinter you better not be a good algorithms programmer or I'm officially packing it in!

 

Now if I ever meet Freddie I'm gonna be all rambly and droning on about skiing, math, physics, technology, technique, safety, bringing waterskiing to the masses, and how this all relates to online gaming.

 

Oh wait, that's how I always am.

[Than_Bogan]

Follow-up note: If Marcus Brown and Freddie Winter were announcing Synchronized Swimming, I would watch it.

[Wish]

@Than_Bogan add Freddy Krueger to that mix and I'd DVR it and watch it agian.

[LeonL]

Harkening back to the title once again. Results or scorebook. Still no scorebook posted. Is it because of the 4 buoy course? I have to assume that due to the sanctioning (F/X) the scores cannot be entered and go against the ranking list. I may have just answered my own question. I still don't understand why trick and jump would be F/X. There should have been no deviation from standard rules for those events.

[klindy]

@LeonL both trick and jump were sanctioned class R.

[MattP]

@leonL Trick and Jump were sanctioned as R. Slalom was F/X.

 

I was away from my computer this weekend and was unable to watch the webcast. Nothing on the Event FB Page, Nautique FB page, event website or Nautique website along with their twitter accounts. No scorebooks have been loaded for the finals. Waterskiresults.com has jump and trick scores but are considered unofficial. USAWS press release only has Nate and Reginas scores. The skiers in the event have nothing on their respective social media accounts about their scores.

 

I watched the webcast archive and got this:

Nate 1@43

Asher & Freddie 3@41

Vaughn .5@41
 - Was frozen during his skiing but announcers said this score later in the show.

Howley? - Did not show him ski




Regina 1.5@41

Whitney 2@39

Clementine 1@39

Manon 3@38

Brooke 2@38

[MISkier]

I think I saw Joel Howley fall at 1 ball on his opener.

[Wish]

Joel did fall on his opener. Very loud gasp by the crowd. What I'm confused about is why they left it a tie?. It was a class F..they can write any rule they want for the most part. How does that payout work if there is no tie breaker? The prelims had a run off. Any explanation for leaving it a tie??

[MattP]

@wish,

@Detrick expained it to me but I can't remember exactly what he said. I'm sure @FWinter can explain it. I would assume they combined the 2 & 3rd place money and then split it.

[DooSPX]

@MarcusBrown and @FWinter, cannot have ever said it better. We need much more of you guys in our sport to bring idea's to get it into the public again. Thank you so much!!

[LeonL]

@klindy and @MattP I'm just going by what USAWS said (still there) on the website. It says all 3 events were to be run as F/X. Guess that was wrong. I couldn't see any reason for it not to be R. That begs as to why no scorebook has been posted. Pros want good scores posted to the world listings.

[klindy]

@LeonL odd...this morning I could see the event registration notice online. Now it's gone for the finals but the qualifier/prelims still shows.

 

Anyway despite the press release the registration form (which reflects the sanction) showed class R for both trick and jump. I have no information whether it was run that way.

[Than_Bogan]

Omg Freddie Winter just awesomed my post.

 

/faint

[BG1]

I would prefer to watch the pros up close on a 4 ball course than further away on a 6 ball course. Also, passes would be run at a slightly faster pace which would add to the entertainment factor for me. I could see where head to head competition would be easier for the public to understand who the winner is. Dual, parallel courses would be awesome but the possibility of very dissimilar conditions determining the outcome instead of the talent would rule that out if I were putting on a pro event.

[unksskis]

Freddie brought up a great point about awareness of the event. I think it is fantastic that Nautique brought it back, supported 3-event, etc, but can't help but feel it was half efforted in some ways. The webcast was fantastic, and had me drawn-in on and off throughout the entire day, as it was very diluted with slalom combining the BD tour. However, I wonder where was the social media marketing blast in regards to the webcast? Nautique had 1 post that day, and little to nothing that I noticed prior to. This is from the same company social media that had every athlete, including 3 event skiers, blasting about a new #gamechanging wakesurf boat for months, nearly on a daily basis. Where was the social media push, from the company and athletes? I know some athletes posted a few, but seemed little effort in way of promoting the event and creating online awareness.

[Ralph Lee]

If a 4 ball course brings in a huge crowd, I'm all for it. If the same family and friends crowd are the only ones who show, then a non regulation course is stupid! If your going to screw around I'd rather watch a "wrong foot forward" tournament, or have a 70's themed event with 70's boats, skis, wigs. Drop the speed to 34 for the men, 32 for the women and see what the pros can do. Blindfolded tournament? If the scores don't count, there's all sorts of fun tournaments to draw crowds.