Learning a new stack.

[sunvalleylaw]

Trying to learn to improve stack. Reading tons of stuff here and watching lots of vid to try to figure it out. One main focus is to get more weight over my front foot. I plan on thinking tall, tall tall (particularly with rear leg) and using front ankle flexion for that, and learn to complete my turn differently so I can start the crossing of the wakes in better position. The idea of the better position will be to be in a strong, stacked position with shoulders and hips over the feet (pelvis over front foot as a goal), erect chest, elbows on vest. Also, where I am on the ski is important I think. I have always pulled against the pylon. I want to change that to work more with, rather than against the boat. This Chris Rossi article really hit a chord with me.

 

Rossi Power Triangle

 

This one paragraph really hit me as describing the difference between pulling from the back, and leaning/leveraging in good position more centered on the ski. "So our goal at the finish of the turn should be to connect what I call the “Power Triangle.” It is defined as the outside hand (trailing arm), the outside hip (trailing hip) and the handle. At the completion of a buoy one turn, your right hand will connect to the handle and the handle will connect to your right hip (or slightly below). When done properly, all three will connect at the same time. You will feel your outside elbow tight against your vest. This is very similar to old school skiing except that it is not done with the inside hip and elbow."

 

If I think about it, if the old focus is inside elbow, the handle is more ahead of you. So you are then pulling from behind the handle. If the focus now is outside hip, you move your COM overall a bit more forward and you are leveraging on the ski, hopefully on edge, rather than pulling as much. This is what I was seeing in some vids of Nate and others, but could not understand what was happening. I could not see how I would move more forward and not start breaking at the hips. Inside hip to outside hip. The rest of stack stays the same. Staying open with the chest and upper body, (for me, eyes down course longer), tall in the legs, front ankle flexion, elbows to vest.

 

That is really enough to work on for now. The rest can flow from that. Review of @Than_Bogan 's primer for 15 offer's will also continue. Thoughts?

[sunvalleylaw]

Playing with the above using some of these drills collected by @Gloersen could also factor in. I have not done many drills in the last few years. Also, will find a good place to put a handle at the house for dryland. How high does a guy tie a line on a post for dry land?

 

Here are the drills: Gloersen Drill Collection

[Fam-man]

I feel I'm in the same situation, trying to learn stack and am actually considering a foot switch to see if I realize any improvement at getting my COM moved forward. Its an interesting process, I think there's some progress then I watch video and see I'm using the same old technique to chase balls. I think setup is critical, lately I picked up that I'm ok in the glide but when I got to turn in I do it with a hips back movement setting me into that attitude for the run.

 

I'm currently LFF confirmed by all the usual techniques. What I've been noticing is a natural tendency to put weight on my right foot. What I mean is when I'm just standing I will almost always unconsciously load my right foot. Also when skating I will more naturally drive with my right leg.

 

As I'm converting from free skiing to course skiing I've noticed in video my right leg seems to be driving my movements through the course which results in being very tail heavy.

 

I guess I'm contemplating if bent waist, tail heavy skiing is a defensive approach or the result of having my right foot in the back. Going to give a foot switch a try next time out, should be entertaining if nothing else.

[sunvalleylaw]

@Fam-man Interesting! I thought about a foot switch as well, after reading some other stuff, but I am left foot forward on any one board sport I have ever done, and tend to approach the stairs left foot first, etc. So I think messing with that would just mess with me more. Better just to improve how I use my natural board stance. No "sit and spin" on the tails of anything, more stand, lean and move, using more of the ski. I know how to do that on snow skis. The big thing for me in the stuff I posted above was the focus on which hip the handle comes to. It makes a big difference I think in terms of where the body is experiencing, and what the body is doing with, the load. Now to see if I can do it out on the water. Hopefully I can ski in a couple days and find out. Away from home without a boat at the moment. Oh, an with a ski with a ripped binding.

 

Here are the vids I posted in another thread of how I am skiing now. I, like you, am a freeskier looking to move more into the course, now behind an inboard as opposed to the outboards seen in these vids.

 

End of last year

 

Last week

 

Frankly, I don't consistently get the handle to my inside or center of my hips all the time in these vids, much less well connected to the outside. But I can remember trying to sweep the handle down and across to the outside hip, while staying more patient and more open with the body in other runs, so will return to that. It seemed to help.

[Fam-man]

@sunvalleylaw there are so many great resources and information here.

 

There was a post a while ago with a video of Chet Raley discussing connection as you exit the turn, I'm sure you've seen that.

Another one I like is a Terry Winter video on Youtube called "just some 32's". It shows a chest camera image from Terry which provides an interesting perspective.

[sunvalleylaw]

@Fam-man , I just returned to wanting to improve, as I was injured in 2013 and 2014 and was just happy if I could ski at all, so just wanted to take it easy and stay erect if I was on the water. But, getting back into it now. So, I did not see those particular vids. I will look for them. I like watching Terry also. I will see what I can find for Chet and connection upon exit, as I think that is a huge key for me. On the on side, making sure I don't hurry it and in the process rock back or close my shoulders and reach early, and on the off-side, again, not reaching early or let my hips fall back.

[Fam-man]

@sunvalleylaw I'm not sure how to link to a discussion.

The Chet Raley video is in the video and photo section and is called "Chet Talks Body Position"

[sunvalleylaw]

@Fam-man Thanks!

[Fam-man]

@sunvalleylaw thanks in part to this conversation I had a couple really good sets last night. Started out switching to RFF which felt awkward but went OK, got up first try and made it around the turn in. Was just going to pull wide on my offside past the course and see how it went. After making it half way and falling I decided that wasn't the answer and went back to LFF.

For the rest of the evening I did a few things

1)Forgot about the balls. Was still skiing in the course but wasn't trying to make the balls

2)Focused on keeping my hips up especially at turn in and on my offside lean. Found some success with really trying to ski my hip to the handle and lock it in there (power triangle) along with keeping my elbows on my vest.

By my last set I was noticing better wake crossing through stronger position on my offside, more speed across course and an earlier line. Now I need to keep the momentum up so the position continues to improve and become more natural.

 

Thanks for the chat, that's one of the things I like about this forum.

[sunvalleylaw]

@Fam-man , thanks to you as well! And good to hear about your progress. I might try one set RFF just because to see the results but I think I will find the same result as you. I also look forward to trying a course soon, and will take a cue from you and ignore the balls. Maybe after a few warm up passes out of the course, I can try to just do a decent job with the gates and then ignore the rest of the balls. How did you focus on keeping hips up? I was thinking about just thinking tall (and long rear leg), and trying to imagine my pelvis over the ball of my front foot. We'll see what that does for me. I don't know if I can get on the water in the next couple days, but did pick up my new boat, so am excited to work on this as well. Let's keep the conversation going.

[lcgordon]

Is that that sweet barefoot brendella in the first vid?

[sunvalleylaw]

@lcgordon , no. Not so highly powered as that. But it was still a fun boat, just not great at altitude. It was a 1988 Seaswirl Tempo, with a 120 carbed Johnson. Pulled pretty well at sea level, but at the lake pictured in the vid, (7000 feet elevation), could not keep me at speed very well. That was shot with the boat at full throttle, and the motor trimmed up a bit.

[lcgordon]

Never mind somebody posted a pic of there brendella and it had a white motor thought it was it. Still cool tho I think outboards are sweet.

[ToddL]

Key points that seems to always come up with stack discussions:

1) Maintaining stack from a great start is easier than fixing stack after a bad start. Get stacked before the pullout to glide and work to maintain from then on until set down.

2) If you have to "fix" or get back into stack, one place to focus on is right after the edge change. Repairing/adjusting stack coming into the buoy will ultimately result in better stack when the load comes.

 

I like the discussion above about the focus on outside hip/arm at the finish of the turn. Interesting way to think about it. I would add that coming into the buoy (before the turn, but after the edge change) the focus is on the inside hip as leading the COM forward. This is easy to simulate/feel when thinking about your on-side turn. It is a bit harder to do on the off-side. Find your favorite pro, though, and take a look at where their inside hip is as they approach their off-side turn. It is probably leading more than us mere mortals are doing.

[sunvalleylaw]

@lcgordon , it's for sale if you are interested . . . :)

[lcgordon]

Haha na. If I somehow had the money for a second boat I would get a sanger or a flightcraft. Need way more than a 120 to barefoot at elevation also

[Fam-man]

@sunvalleylaw not so much ignore the balls because developing timing is still important but more not really worrying about being inside or outside them. I find that discipline tough because the idea is to get around those balls, however going for 1 more and wrecking the pass isn't worth it when trying to improve form.

With this mindset I wasn't "pulling as hard as I could" using the same old form to get across which gave me time to make the turn and set/adjust position as I was leaning.

 

I find the balls come very fast and when set down I chat with the folks in the boat and pick something to focus on next time in. I try to keep my focus to one thing per pass because when trying to do too much I find myself simply reacting.

 

For me thinking of an action gets better results then thinking of an outcome. When I need to be more open I think about looking at the back of the boat. Similarly I got better results with "there's the handle, get my hip to it" then I did just thinking hips up.

 

I've lost count of how many passes I've made this year which is my first ever skiing in a course. I'm still 15off @ 30mph, I could run faster or possibly shorter but would plateau very quickly because the form isn't there.