Build a better boat.

[BrennanKMN]

My steering cable was only a pain the first time and even then it was a hour job. Now each time I tie a pull rope to it and just pull the new one right in. Easy. The longest part of the job is removing the center floor section.

[Stevie Boy]

I have changed two steering cables on two different Nautique 200s, both were a pain because of where they had cable tied the steering cable during manufacture, there is one really awkward bit by the seat under the floor where it is difficult to get the old cable out and the new one in, I think there is some kinda stringer there, you have to move the cable around until you get the right angle while somebody pulls it through, (yes I did attach a pull through to the old one when I took it out) with a little bit of thought it could be so much easier, a plastic conduit would be a simple cheap Mod for the Manufacturer, bet their Dealers would love it, Nautique would save loads on warranty claim regards time for labour.

 

How Much Do These Boats Cost ?

 

How Much Does Five Feet of Plastic Conduit Cost ?

[swc5150]

My steering cable install would be easier if I didn't have the heater hoses in the way, which is where a nice size conduit would come into play.

[thager]

I always use a cable pulling fluid to make the process go easier. I had trouble with the heater hoses also until I lubed them up.

[spicoli]

I want a hydraulic platform with up down button on transom .push it it lowers foot under water and then lifts my old ass up

 

[rayn]

Not sure I saw this one.

 

2001 Malibu RLX price.

[RAWSki]

Good Call on the Acc-Ski get-up DaveD. ;-) Why not get that same pull AccuSki Pull from a GPS based system without having to choose between 18 possible settings!?? Love the MC ZeroOff interface and the bow cover, but the cover isn't new, there are some 20 Year Old American Skier Volantes with the same feature. The MC ski rack is super cool too!

[slow]

I steering cable you don't have to replace. Can't be that tough of an engineering problem.

[BraceMaker]

@slow it's called hydraulic steering.

[harddock]

Once upon a time wind shields were hinged so the could be raise about 2" off the deck allowing airflow on a very hot day. I'ld love to see that comeback.

[Waternut]

One way to eliminate that steering cable issue is a small hydraulic pump, electric assist, or steering by wire for power steering. I'm sure steering by wire would scare people but throttle by wire scared people as well and it's been reliable. I think the biggest hurdle for that will be driver feel. We want a firm/loaded steering wheel at speed through the course but being able to throw the wheel 2-3 rotations at idle is massively convenient.

[eleeski]

Had an interesting conversation with Greg Meloon of Correct Craft. A lot of the boat design is driven by the rules. Cost effectiveness also matters. And manufacturing processes add more limits. Not sure what will come out of CC but it will be carefully and thoughtfully engineered.

 

When I complained about the boats being too big to tow, he just smiled and said to get a bigger truck.

 

Eric

[Wish]

So I met a skier today that has stripped everything but drivers seat, passenger seat, wheel and dash out of a 2002 SN recently re powered with ZO. And I mean EVERYTHING down to gel or fiber glass. Some new glass work has taken place on the floor and the gas tank has been moved/changed. He is a master at glass work and knows how to gel coat. This inside will be something to behold as he describes it and I believe him. It WILL be the ultimate ski tractor with a 0 maintenance interior. Think club boat that never gets messed up..ever. I drove it today. WOW. The boat is so light without all the crap in the back (trunk, tank, seat..), still tacks like normal but has tremendous hole shot. Hoping he will let me post picks..prob not till done but maybe. I love his ideas.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@eleski : "A lot of the boat design is driven by the rules." Huh? What rules pertain to the boat design? I can't think of a single one.

 

@wish cool idea, but I can't think of anything I could take out of my '97 that would make any difference. The back seat came out when I bought the boat. Carpet doesn't weight much and I keep weights in for balance.

[Wish]

There's more crap in the rear of a 02. Let's just say the looong bolt that runs from the rear lift ring down to the floor is 100% visible top to bottom. Smaller gas tank as well and no longer in the same place.

[BraceMaker]

Paul Jager (FM) has vids of his 196 w stripped out interior on YouTube.

 

The most impressive single item is how high the rear spray pockets are out of the water at idle. Looks to be 2-3" more freeboard.

[eleeski]

@Bruce_Butterfield Specifically, Greg was talking about flotation requirements. But he also mentioned the engine and emission issues (plus ZO) as driving up the hardware costs into a different class of boat. You can't just slap a carburated V8 (or V6) in a hull anymore. A bare bones boat will still be ridiculously priced.

 

I do remember a requirement for the gas tank to be in the rear of the boat for gasoline power. Might not apply to diesel. Hmmm, maybe I should marinize all those VW diesel engines that will be taken off the road and sell boat kits?

 

Eric

[Hockdog]

Sounds like a great business plan to me!

[DW]

@wish @BraceMaker : reducing weight particularly at transom works, I have done a fair amount of weight reduction on my vessel with excellent results. Used a fair amount of carbon fiber for various teak and glass parts, aluminum in place of cast iron & have a pile of 'extra' parts in the garage. Move the GC forward, reduce a bunch of weight and it is amazon how nimble a boats gets & depending on vessel changes the wake. Similar 2" difference in change in platform height.

 

@spicoli : Cobalt has the flip down platform for those challenged at climbing on the platform.

[BraceMaker]

When I ran carbed only I usually kept <6 gallons in the boat at all times. Now with fuel injection that can burn up a pump real quick. So 6 is my add fuel level.

 

VW unfortunately will probably have to destroy those engines @eleeski so buy em while you can? Its the marine turbo and zero off issues that will kill that.

[DW]

@BraceMaker : that amounts to 36 # of extra ballast at transom. Seems like several of the tanks are shaped in a way you can't really get the last ~5 gallons out simply due to slosh across a wide surface when running.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@eleski - ok I'll buy those. I was thinking usaws rules. Flotation seems like basic design and shouldn't be anything new - I think most of us have seen the videos of the ski boat (mastercraft I think) nosediving and getting submerged.

 

And yes our wonderful EPA. It would be interesting if the manufacturers could disclose just how much extra cost is added for catalytic converters and other emissions compliance.

[BraceMaker]

Correct. Fully rear rigid ballast for surfing.

Why marine tanks don't have a molded sump and fuel cell foam to keep the fuel at the pick up point.

[skierjp]

I keep my 200 full of gas (27 gal) and half the time the back seat is in and I can't tell the difference. My wife starts at 30mph 15 off and skis into 28 off at 32 ( women's 5 ) and she can't tell the difference between a full tank and one that is empty.

[Ralph Lee]

windshield wipers!! duh...

[Roger]

@skierjp -

 

"I keep my 200 full of gas (27 gal) and half the time the back seat is in and I can't tell the difference. My wife starts at 30mph 15 off and skis into 28 off at 32 ( women's 5 ) and she can't tell the difference between a full tank and one that is empty."

 

Same with my Mastercraft ProStar (2016), can't tell the difference. I also ski behind a 2015 6 liter Centurion and can't tell any difference with that hull either. I have no direct access to a Malibu, but I suspect it's similar in that respect as I don't notice the wake at all in a tournament where the tank is usually pretty full. The last boat I had that I really noticed the fuel level difference in was my 1994 Ski Nautuque and it wasn't a severe difference, but noticeable.

[Jody_Seal]

I read all these suggestions and concerns and realize that many of you are to some degree clueless of what is involved in bringing a EPA compliant vessel to market in today's world. The price for light is significant in this world. In order to meet floatation regulations for any inboard boat under 20 feet is substantial price wise. Since our own organization and rule's are generated around current new boats as is the status quo of our sport the price to play is going to continue!! $150K ski boat? just around the corner!!

[Wish]

@Jody_Seal buzz kill..

[Jody_Seal]

Yea sorry Brian but sometimes a bit of reality needs to be brought out. I would like nothing more then to see new boats priced below $50K. would like to accept that our sport is not record and performance based. but until the Status quo decides that the competition side of the sport is on it last swirl of the drain the price to play is going to continue!

Just got back from two world level championships and the technology perceived to operate is just stupid. However one highly respected international official said it best. Get rid of records and performance based ideology and the sport will regrow!!

[Jody_Seal]

Oh and one other thing Hydraulic steering in a ski boat is the worst combination I have ever experienced. Been there done it!! Cant feel the rudder due to the bleed off in the system. load up the rudder all you want and still cant feel and it becomes a whole lot of steering movement when driving slalom or jump.

[MISkier]

If a boat is sold for a private lake and never to be registered for public water, would that boat need to comply with all the regulations? What if they were sold as kits that the purchaser assembled?

[Wish]

Just trying to keep the flavor of the thread light. We all have a fare idea of the BS regulations that hinders boat builders. Many threads on that subject. I'd suggest most that have posted already knew of it. The thread suggestion I gave at the onset was centered around what one would put together to build the better boat from design elements of boats that already existed and perhaps already met requirements. Posts sort of drifted into the imaginary. Hopefully less imaginary and closer to reality posts will happen so "reality" or "honesty" doesnt have to be pointed out since it's not based on any. But hay...imaginary is fun sometimes and I learned today that machanical steering seems to be the best with little hope for an alternative.

 

I'm gonna add to my list as others have mentioned the MC ski racks but with some sort of covering or redesign that does not allow any point for the rope to catch if handle pop puts slack line on it. .

[ALPJr]

Gekko GTR 22

[Wish]

@MISkier if the EPA gets the regulations it seeks in the name of "clean water" there won't be any private lakes. Oh crap..now I'm the buzz kill.

 

But I'd like to know the answer to your question.

 

Back to list:

Classic color color schemes..less neon, glitter, and the all white hulls.

 

[oldjeep]

@bananaron - I'm going to assume that you are the GTR22 I see on O'doud every time I ski with my brother inlaw. Only lake where you see much of a Gekko presence, although I have seen a couple of their rental wake boats on Minnetonka lately. I can't figure out why people don't buy them either except maybe that not a lot of people know they exist. No presence at the boat shows and no local dealers except that one up in Alexandria.

 

Oops, or maybe not now that I see your brainerd location

[swc5150]

When seeing that Gekko for $26.9k brand new, my mind starts to wander. If THAT is possible, then why can't CC dust off the 196 molds, and build a stripped out tug at a price point? Just thinking all Seadek (floor, combing pads, etc.), optional rear seat/s, no trunk. Does CC use such superior raw materials that it still wouldn't be possible to keep it at say $40-50K?

[Wish]

Hmmmm... Not that it matters to a thread that centers around the fantasy of "the better boat" but it's starting to become a completely diff thread. Just sayn.

[DW]

And as the various posts reveal, a 'better boat' means very different things to different people all logging on to a hard core slalom site. Imagine the variation to the range of DD slalom boat buyers that the actual boat builders have to satisfy to succeed and make a profit.

 

@MISkier : The loophole in the automotive world is "for off road use only", you can license an 'off road but meeting certain criteria' vehicle in some states but not all. Doing that with a ski boat would certainly hurt resale value as the pool of second customers shrinks dramatically.

[jpattigr]

Seeing some comments about the Gekko GTR, and also lots of comments about low priced ski boats. Here in Calgary they have a brand new 2015 GTR for $49.9k CDN ($37,800 usd) and that includes a trailer. Amazing they have not sold this boat in 2 years, it is black / white good looking boat. http://www.gilligansboats.ca