Do you change your pull out when the line shortens?

[Razorskier1]

need to be slightly earlier, with the same objective -- get frickin' high on the boat!

[wtrskior]

I've been told by a few pro coaches that you can pull out later as the line shortens as the distance to reach the gates is shorter.

 

I start at -22 and I pull out a little earlier here than I would at -28 to -35 (where my ride would typically end). I can't say I adjust my pull out from -28 to -35, but if I did it would be maybe a fraction later and/or a little stronger. If you pull out too early, you loose the speed you need to match the boat's pull and can get sucked back in. As the line shortens you need to have a steeper angle through the wakes.

 

After reading Jmac's blog and getting some solid coaching last weekend on my gates, I feel later is better if you can time it right.

 

http://www.jmacskis.com/

[Horton]

@wtrskior LONG LINK PANDA!

http://media.tumblr.com/fe497dd337d9af8479bb6398b9565d16/tumblr_inline_mg6n5ltl6X1rxe4lt.gif

 

[Horton]

In practice I go off the dock at 32 and always run it at least twice before I shorten. In tournaments I go off the dock at 28.

 

The reason is as follows - The gate is 28 is so different than the gate at 38 that I do not want to practice it. When I get to a tournament I generally need some more warm up so I have to use 28. Bottom line is I do a longer line gate as rarely as possible so most of my gates are more similar to the pass I really care about.

[RazorRoss3]

I feel like I pull the same for every line but I have a suspicion that my pull out timing becomes earlier as the line comes in because I think that the visual I am looking for actually moves earlier as the line gets shorter and my start point becomes more and more beside the boat vs behind it at the longer lines. The big thing for me regardless is to make sure I get really high on the boat especially as the line starts turning blue and purple where it becomes a make or break variable but my -32 is also way cleaner when I start higher.

[6balls]

I go slightly later when it's shorter because you get high quicker at short line as there is less travel outbound before the trajectory of the rope comes up the side of the boat. It's subtle, but I play it.

[lpskier]

I pull out at the same spot for 28, 32 and 35. At 38, I go a perceived two feet earlier. I have very limited experience beyond that. Maybe that's why....

 

I can also say that I ski on an eight ball course and I go around "zero ball" through 35. At 38, I go before it or over it (we can sink zero.)

[h2onhk]

My first ever 32 pass this summer came when I pulled out a little later. Allowed me to stay high and not have slack out of one. Had a hard time repeating it until I mentally convinced myself that I was not going to have a really late gate by doing so. Standing tall on the glide and handle position right before the turn in played a big part. If i reverted back to my old of habits of riding the tail and arms out with rope chest high I screwed up the gate every time at 32 and 35 and would struggle getting back ahead at 28.

[ricski39]

This was the closest option to my approach to my gates. As the line gets shorter I may pull out slightly later, but the main thing that I try to change is the intensity of my pull out. I try to add about 10% more than the previous line length. I just don’t need to be as far up on the boat at 28’ as I do at 38’. In my humble opinion there’s no right or wrong way to time your pull out. As long as the end result is that you’re wide on the boat and don’t drift in before you start your turn, then it’s all good.

[ski6jones]

Am I the only one slightly confused by this? Depending on what you use to decide when to pull out you'll get different results. I use the boat in relation to the 55s. If I always pull out when the boat is a set distance from the 55s then I'm actually pulling out later relative to the coarse with each shortening even though I'm pulling out at the same time with respect to my key, the boat and the 55s. If my key to pull out is something relative to the coarse alone then it works differently.

 

Using the boat/55s then I start my pull out when the boat is a bit further from the 55s for shorter lines than longer lines. This get's me started outbound at about the same place relative to the coarse, I think.

[MISkier]

Given @ski6jones assessment, I probably could change my answer. I judge my pullout from the front of the boat at the 55s. When I shorten the rope, I then pullout with the boat a few feet before the last time. Depending on how much I shorten, I am either pulling out the same (if my pullout adjustment matched the amount of shortening) or later (if my pullout adjustment was less than the amount of shortening). I'm relatively sure I don't adjust my pullout timing to be earlier by more than the amount I've shortened.

[skidawg]

Well said @ski6jones - definitely smarter than the average bear

[6balls]

@ski6jones true if you want to start out at the same spot regardless of line length. I would argue it takes less time to get to high at shorter lines given same intensity pull out...with that I could go at the same spot boat relative to 55's and be a later pull out or exaggerate it a bit more allowing the boat to be closer to the 55's as I get short.

Not sure I'm right...just what I do.

[ski6jones]

@6balls i think i want the intensity if my pull out to be consistent from pass to pass. Adjusting slightly the timing of the pull out start is easier for me. I get what you mean that same intensity pull out at shorter line prob gets you to full width faster. Food for thought.

[Waternut]

I like how @ski6jones clarified this but then again I never knew any other timing method for pull outs other than where the boat is in relation to the 55's.

 

Generally speaking though, at -28 to -35, I'm pulling out right about the time the bow goes through the 55's. I generally just hold the outbound edge on the shorter lengths a bit longer. The only exception is my typical 32mph -28 opening pass to warm up where I pull out with the boat halfway through the 55's.

[Texas6]

My reference point from just outside the trough is the same every time. The second the bow of the boat hides the right hand 55 from my vision. That way I never have to estimate or adjust distance of boat from 55's, and the timing for me is more automatic so long as I start my pullout from precisely the same spot just outside of the trough. In that scenario to back up what @ski6jones says, in theory my intensity stays closer to consistent as the line shortens

[disland]

waiting for @Than_Bogan to chime in with some physics. If using the 55's for reference and using a consistent intensity then there are two variables.The duration of the pull and the start point. If the objective is to be as high on the boat as possible and to turn in with the skier matching the speed of the boat then the two variables have to be managed and or changed as the line shortens.

 

[Horton]

Two things

 

Gate pull out timing and intensity is something that I have struggled with for years.

 

I wish there was a 57.5 or 60 meter ball help me with my timing.

[MISkier]

@disland, I think there are 3 variables. The actual rope length for each pullout will return a different response for the same intensity. I think the geometry changes for the shortened rope and gives you different speed for your same effort.

[disland]

@MISkier Your describing what you feel. STEM guys will tell you the boat speed is fixed, the buoys are fixed. When the rope changes provided your intensity is the same the only remaining variable is when you start and when you finish.

[jimbrake]

Being consistent in judging your "spot" to begin to edge out, intensity and duration of load, stance over your feet, and other small details like wind direction and speed is one of the toughest, but important things to do in slalom. I learned this year that when I focus on keeping the line tight all the way up to the end of my arc or swing and stand as erect as possible right before I begin to move back in that mysteriously the quality and consistency of my gate goes way up. I have sets where I come back in and go "I nailed 100% of those gates". Then another set I'll lose focus on that tight line and here comes the variability.

 

I don't understand the mechanics of why this works so well, I just know that when that line stays tight good things happen.