Need some boat choice advice

[Nicad]

A year and a half ago I posted this thread about looking for a ski and how some old timers had kept a water ski weekend tradition alive with the purchase of a new boat.

 

Well I quite like the ski I ended up with (A Radar P6...Thanks), but now I have found myself the owner of a few boats through a cottage purchase, but none of them meet the bill when it comes to pulling a slalom skier.

The big boat (Cobalt 226) has way too big of a wake and burns too much fuel. The smaller boat (Edgewater 15.5 with Tohatsu 90 HP) also has a big wake and is completely gutless when running from a dead start. I'd like a ski boat that meets many variables. It's gotta be safe in bad water. Friendly for a teenager to drive, space efficient for carrying dogs and groceries, relatively fuel efficient. Well built.

 

One friend says to get a fish and ski aluminum boat.

The local Marina says Boston Whalers plane quickly and have a decent wake.

Another ski guy says that I should get a purpose built boat like a Charger , J craft or Mastercraft barefoot 200.

 

Well I drove a Charger with a 115 HP Tohatsu today and it was impressive. I did find the wake a little big at the speeds I would be skiing at. Maybe it is more suited to faster speeds.(Seemed to top out around 55MPH)

 

What do you guys say about the Boston Whaler or aluminum fish and ski style boats? Can you enjoy slalom skiing with the wake they make? Suggestions greatly appreciated. Will be selling the edgewater boat to make way for a skiable boat. Looking for a good used boat.

 

Thanks, Bob.

 

 

[TallSkinnyGuy]

What's your acceptable price range? Do you need open bow? Do you want to do anything else with the boat other than ski?

[Nicad]

I'd say my price range is probably around 15K. Open bow would be preferable. I'd prefer an outboard, and easy to drive, confidence inspiring in bad water with predictable handling. Getting up holeshot I can deal with mediocre. Top speed around 35 mph would be fine. Thanks for the reply.

[gmut]

@Nicad What you really need is an open bow inboard boat circa 1994 thru 2000 probably would be in your price range. Outstanding for most watersports and can be used to fish,swim off of, sunset cruises etc. imho. http://www.ski-it-again.com/

[UWSkier]

@Nicad tell us more about the body of water, the "bad weather," etc. High winds and large swells are a very bad situation with inboards. Is that what you expect to have to deal with?

[LoopSki]

Sounds like you wants Mastercraft Powerstar. May not be easy to find though.

 

 

[Nicad]

The body of water is Lake Muskoka in Ontario. It seems to get choppy weather, and I am told it can get rough. If the Edgewater was not such a slug when you hit the throttle I'd consider keeping it. That Mastercraft looks very nice. Thanks for the replies.

 

[6balls]

Ski ray made an outboard ski boat for a while similar to the Mastercraft above. There is one on my lake.

That MC powerstar looks like the ticket.

[Nicad]

The mastercaft barefoot 200 looks pretty nice to me also , certainly not as practical as the powerstar. Can't seem to find any of those in my search so far.

[TallSkinnyGuy]

I grew up skiing behind a tri-hull open-bow outboard and it actually skied pretty well. Even used it with a portable slalom course a couple times. Outboard motors are relatively light, and if you get a boat with a hull that is not too deep-v you can end up with a pretty small wake (though maybe a bit firmer than modern inboard wakes). If you haven't already and can get the chance it may be worth it for you to take a ski set behind a 1990s+ inboard ski boat so you have a measure to compare against.

[andjules]

@Nicad I spent a lot of time driving J Crafts, Chargers, Whalers and inboard ski boats on the Muskoka Lakes when I was younger. They all have pros and cons, of course.

 

If your place is out on the open channel (or especially if you're on an island) you might want to keep either the Cobalt or the Edgewater for rough days. You can certainly learn to drive any mid-size boat safely in the kinds of waves you find on all-but-the-worst-days on Lake Muskoka, but that doesn't mean it'll be a comfortable or dry ride.

Are you thinking $15k US or CAD?

 

Really tiny (outboard) wakes tend to come from light, flat-bottom or low-deadrise boats (J Crafts, older ski-focused Chargers, older/smaller Boston Whalers), but that tends to make them especially uncomfortable when the waves kick up. As well, if/as you get more serious about your skiing, you'll find that despite the tiny wakes, they get pulled around a bit (which is one of many reasons most of the skiers on this board opt for inboard ski boats). They're also awful for wakeboarding - don't know if you or your teenagers care about that. Lastly, J-Crafts and (older, ski-focused) Chargers are likely to have been built with wood floors & stringers, so watch out that that they've been stored well. Once the stringers rot, they're not worth the restoration.

 

If you think you're going to stay pretty recreational about skiing, then a good all-around fish-and-ski might be just fine, especially if you're really attached to having an outboard. If you're getting more serious about slalom, I'm with @gmut and like a late 90s/early 2000s inboard, although I know prices are pretty inflated up in Muskoka, and the gas consumption won't compare to an outboard on a lightweight hull. The inboards tend to be built with a little more heft which in some ways make them feel a little more solid in the chop, although again, not always comfortable. The ski-focused, moderate-freeboard outboards mentioned above (MC PowerStar, Barefoot 200 or even an outboard SeaRay "SkiRay") would be a nice compromise in some ways, if you can find one.

 

P.S. If you do want to take your skiing more seriously, I recommend getting the occasional coaching session from Bush's in Bala. They'll point you in the right direction and give you lots to think about when you're skiing at your own cottage.

[Nicad]

Great comments. I am on EIlean Gowan island, so the Cobalt for sure is staying in the family. I am also purely a recreational skier. Not serious at all, close to 60 and unlikely to pull the boat around enough to make much difference. There is a nice looking barefoot 200 in Ottawa for sale with a 200 HP. That must fly!. There is also an older 17 foot Whaler Striper for sale with an Evinrude 100 in Sarnia. The Edgewater is too small and heavy for our family of four and a dog. It supposedly will be easy to sell on Lake Muskoka.

there seem to be a lot of Chargers and J boats for sale for reasonable money as well. I think if the Whaler can ski decently, it might be the logical choice. As for budget, 5K Cdn past what the Edgewater sells for would be OK.

[Jordan]

The barefoot 200 is a decent slalom boat and is not terrible in rough water- a very high quality boat...with the 200hp it will go about 60mph.

Chargers are good in rough water but only so-so for skiing. They have had several owners over the years...in the 80's they were balsa cored racing boats. In the 90's they got progressively cheaper in their build quality. I believe now they are owned by Tempest- a cheaper line of boat

J-Crafts are fun and plane almost instantly. harsh in rough water, and a miniscule wake... but you will pull it around and if you ever intend on shortening the rope, the wake though small gets very hard.

I wouldn't get a Whaler for skiing.

I think you could consider a used Mastercraft or Nautique inboard...they are fabulous to drive and to cruise around in and the swim platform makes them great to swim from out on the lake.

If you want to try one, go over to the ski school at Cleveland's house and go for a ski or ask to ride in the boat while they pull a few lessons....you could also go over to Bush's ski center over in Bala and do the same thing.

[jjackkrash]

I got my PB in Slalom and Jump one college tourney long ago behind a barefoot Sanger with 200 Yamaha. I thought the wake was awesome and the boat was very fast. You can still find them if you look hard enough.

[Nicad]

OK thanks for the tips. Will check out those ski schools. I certainly want to avoid a problem boat with a rotten structure. Guess I am asking one craft to do too much. 60 MPH seems awfullly fast a boat to throw a 16 year old the keys to. I think I'd get in trouble at 60 MPH eventually as well.. ...

[Kdinger838]

What's the coast guard rating for the edge water? Could you repower?

[Nicad]

It's rated for 90 HP. It used to have a Yamaha 2 stroke on it and now it has a Tohatsu 90 HP two stroke. I think I heard it ran better with the Yamaha from the previous owner.

[Kdinger838]

@Nicad that's a bummer. We just rigged a a 115etec on 17ft Carolina skiff and it would suffice for what you're looking to do. I'm partial to the e-tecs,More power to weight and torque. The evinrude 90 ho is actually a 4 cyl and the same block as the 115-135 and may be worth consulting with a local dealer about.

[Wish]

Some of the engine covers were the same back when we had a runabout. At one time we were going to change out covers and have a 90hp cover on a 115 or 135 motor since they were all the same and the boat was not rated past 100. That or change out the decals.

[UWSkier]

Growing up, we had a Concord with a Merc 200 (175 cowl... @Wish trick). It was light, fast, and a phenomenal ski boat. It did great in rough water also. You could trim it up so only the back 2' or so of hull was touching water at 40 MPH or so and just float over the waves. It'd do 70+ MPH trimmed at WOT. Enjoyed that boat for several years until a guy on our lake flipped his (by being very stupid... I saw it go over). Mom put an immediate sell order on that one since she didn't trust my little bro with it.

 

So, something like that or a Baja OB would be a good option and get you every bit as good a ski wake as the OB MCs, as long as you trust the drivers not to be morons.

[Chef23]

If you are looking for just a ski tug when the water is relatively calm it is hard to go wrong with an older inboard like a 2000 range Response LX. It is lousy when the water is really rough you but you can't beat a boat like that for pulling skiers and if it is in decent shape is very low maintenance and durable.

[Steveo]

If you are dead set on an outboard my choice would be the Mastercraft barefoot 200 or power star for open bow. Who knows you may get the barefoot bug. However being a Nautique guy with a $15k budget I would look for a 97-99 196.

[Gar]

Nice one listed on SIA for 12500

[Nicad]

Somehow, I don't think I am getting the barefoot bug.....but never say never.

[Gar]

Correction 9500 with less than 500 hours

[Nicad]

Hey Gar, what is SIA?

[Jordan]

SIA is a website called Ski-it-again that lists water ski equipment and boats for sale

https://goo.gl/zkSB2y

 

[Gar]

@nicad Though it's not an open bow solid hull and boat and under your budget

[slow]

Get a boat with enough HP. Nothing worse than getting tired dragging forever to get up. If i got an outboard i would want at least 200hp and a smallish boat. That being said if you ever ski behind a direct drive in board, you won't go back even if is just casual skiing. You owe it your self to get towed behind one if you haven't.

[Nicad]

Do these direct drive boats require more water depth? I'd say we are at about 4.5 feet where we dock the boat. I know when I first asked a question about direct drive boats to a friend of mine who knows a lot about boats (not skiing though) he seemed to indicate that an older ski nautique type boat might be in need of expensive maintanence. Seemed odd to me, as I would have thought this inline driveline would theoretically be the most trouble free.

[Conor]

I park my response txi(direct drive) in about 30" of water with no trouble. If you have wake board boats or anything creating large wakes next to your dock you might need more water. 4.5 feet..... no problem

[Chef23]

@nicad direct drive boats don't need more depth they might actually need less. I dock in less than 4 feet with no problems.

 

From a maintenance perspective I have a 15 year old Malibu that has needed very little maintenance. They are basically marinized (not sure that is a word) car engines and are very reliable and easy to maintain.

[jjackkrash]

Inboard maintenance is not much more maintenance than similar year Chevy or Ford, except that they need to be winterized if you don't keep them in a garage in colder climates.

[Gar]

Direct drive is without a doubt the way to go. Try one I think you will love it.

[Nicad]

Still thinking about the outboards, especially considering the longer they can stay in the water in Ontario. I am told my Cobalt should be out of the water mid October and the edgewater with Tohatsu outboard power can stay in till mid December. Got my eye on a Barefoot 200. I think I prefer this design to the open bow anyway, as I hate looking through heads as I drive my other boat. The main question is....can you semi daily drive one of these, or is it misery on all but the smoothest days?

[DGravelle]

@ Nicad I'm not sure if it is the same boat you are looking at or not but there is a master craft 200 for sale in toronto that is posted on kijiji the guy is asking 12,500 looks decent (but he only has two pictures) comes with a barefoot boom that if you don't have a use for I know a guy who would be interested in purchasing from you. if you decide to pull the trigger.

 

[6balls]

It's a nice boat, can do way more in chop than the inboards because you can trim it.

A number of years back had 8 in my outboard Centurion skiing smooth stuff but trip home was up the backs of progressively bigger waves. We drove back trimmed out over 50 mph.

Outboard ski boats don't take chop like a stern drive run about but way better than inboard ski boats..and they throw tiny wakes...even at long lines n slow speeds for kids. I've run buoys hand timed back in the day at 36 mph into 35 off. More of a handful but possible. Hydraulic steering a must.

They are not great at making big wakes and don't like wakeboard speed much...they try to plane and go faster vs sink back in the hole so constant throttle adjusting. It's better heavily loaded can get it to sink in some.

It's great to have SO much interior space, but a downside is small platforms.

[BraceMaker]

I get the allure of the long season - but you do have the big I/O run about for cruising the lake on choppy days - I'd personally get the ski boat you want.

 

In re: freezing on the lift - there's nothing about the inboard that won't let you use it in cold water - you can get the water out of the engine enough for it to live on a lift in ~10 minutes - less if you practice.

[Nicad]

Update, looking like I have found my boat. A 1992 BF 200 in Montreal. Going to check it out today and hopefully tow it home if the compression is good. Probably will switch it to hydraulic steering over the winter. My daughter is really enjoying water skiing and is perfectly fine behind the HUGE wake of the Cobalt 226. I keep telling her it will be better behind a proper ski boat. This boat will stay in the water till freeze up.

[MuskokaKy]

Hey @Nicad , As you can tell im on Muskoka too. Torrance. If you need any help let me know i always have my ear to the ground on anything within 5 hours of us. Options are endless and i know what conditions you are dealing with. The colbalt is an easy sell on our lake and so its the edgewater ( especially for islanders). Let me know if you end up getting the BF 200. Good Luck!

[Nicad]

Thanks Muskokaky, I did buy the BF200 and towed it home Friday. It is in Superb shape. Really enjoyed driving it around the lake yesterday. Seems fine in chop and I quite like the ride. Wake looks a little big at water ski speeds, but goes to practically nothing at higher speeds. I guess that is why they call it the BF 200. Have to do a couple of small changes to it. It has a Mini steering wheel that is resisting coming off. I have the original one and hope I

get it swapped in later today. There is nowhere to tie this boat up. Needs some hardware installed to make it dockable. It also has a slow draw on the electrical. I left the battery on last night and it was flat and non starting this morning. Skied behind the Cobalt today for hopefully the last time. Probably going to keep all three boats for the time being. I am on Eilean Gowan, where are you?

[Nicad]

 

[Nicad]

I think this boat is basically 80's ski clothes. Kinda gaudy, but can't look away either. Feels like the space shuttle when looking out the cockpit.

 

[Jordan]

I have skied behind a number of Mastrcraft barefoots....they ski well and give a pretty good pull.

Enjoy it and squeeze a few fall weekends out of it!

[Nicad]

Found a perfect fitting wetsuit in the closet today that the previous owner of the cottage left behind. Should be good to 40f with this setup.

[6balls]

Cool boat does look stern low n bow high.

[bassfooter]

@Nicad - Congratulations on the new boat. You're going to love that Barefoot 200. One of the ski clubs in San Diego runs MC outboards because they ski the Colorado River (shifting sandbars). With all due respect to @6balls, I don't think you need hydraulic steering, especially if you have the dual cable rack & pinion. I do agree with @6balls, however, that she seems to be low in back. If it's like the BF200 out here, it has a huge gas take - like, over 35 gallons. Not filling that tank past half-full will make the wakes much smaller. Have fun and be safe!

[Nicad]

Interesting observations. It also has two large batteries back there and the tank is full, that might add to the angle. Was thinking of maybe moving the battery up front under the passenger seat using one of those low weight glass mat batteries. After charging the battery, I pulled my daughter up for a ski and she got up on one ski for the first time in a long time. No more dropping skis for her I am hoping.

The steering feels fine to me. I put the standard wheel back on. Other observations, it doesn't like idling in gear very much. Bit rough at low speed.

[6balls]

@nicad would replace the plugs and see if she's happier at low idle. Go lighter on fuel and move the battery up front.

[Nicad]

Plugs are pretty well new. It idles dead quiet in neutral, just has a bit of vibration at idle in gear. Top end and throttle response seems very good. I think this fuel processor will be thirsty. I'd have to think I have 100 pounds of batteries in the back.

I noticed in another thread someone using a plate to reduce the wake even more?