2018 Denali c-65

[Wish]

Dang! Must be a Hoax. I had a feeling Cord was gonna do well.

 

[B_S]

@Than_Bogan and @Nando As @Horton will attest, unicorns DO have magical powers! I, for one, can't wait to get mine and experience the magic!

[Wish]

And to "tie Nate"...how often do you hear those words? And for a guy that skis part time.

 

 

 

 

[gmut]

Wow!! Look at the difference in the reach between Nate and Cale.

[lpskier]

I haven't had an opportunity to ski the C65, but I saw it in action again Saturday. It seems like you can stand anywhere on the ski and it still cranks and goes. I seems to be reliable, fast and glued to the water. The ski looks the same turn after turn on both sides of the wake.

 

I watched Adam Cord on it yesterday at Regionals. We (the East) had a qualifier and finals format (M1 was head to head). Adam made the M2 finals and went off the dock at 32. His form and position looked great from the gate at 32 to 4@38. Five ball was another story. He was a mess position-wise and I thought he was done.

 

Nope.

 

With his lips on the tip of the ski, he turned the crap it of five and ran the pass. How the ski ever got back in front of his nose to cross the wake with speed and direction is an engineering miracle.

 

I don't intend to demean Adam's skiing in the least- he's far better than I am and very few of us are technical masters like Nate Smith. I do want to say that I doubt he would have run the pass much less gotten a full five on most other skis. The C65 saved his bacon for sure.

 

If I hadn't hopped on a different ski in the spring that I am enfoying very much, the Denali is the direction I think I would surely go. Plus it looks cool as hell.

 

I had the opportunity to watch several folks not named "Adam" ski the Denali when I spent several days at Trophy in June. The ski appears to work very well for skiers with different styles and at different ability levels.

 

FYI: M2 Eastern Region Slalom Champion? Adam Cord.

[Ed_Johnson]

Can't wait for the 68" to be produced for us BIG Guy's !!!!

 

[Razorskier1]

When I was testing skis for Denali last year this was one consistency. The tip support was insane. I kissed the tip and still kept skiing on multiple occasions. You just couldn't stop the ski in the turn. It would keep moving regardless of your position. I think that was what worked for my brother on his 2-4 turns. On other skis he would dig a hole and dip his elbow waiting for the ski to move. On the Denali you just can't dig a hole.

[mwetskier]

@gmut -reach isn't everything. in college i once lost a boxing match to a guy who only came up to my chin. the problem was, he came up too often.

[Wish]

What @Razorskier1 said. 2 things I could not do on the skis was go OTF or blow out the tail. I was getting new settings about every other week and what I started to notice was not having to be tentative and feel things out first. Could just go full tilt from the pull out to exit gate and not really worry about the bad. Matter of fact, just tested some setting significantly off from where the fin was...just went after it knowing the bad stuff was not a worrie. Remarkable.

[Than_Bogan]

I'd like to point out, since it was partly my idea, that the c is lowercase. c is the speed of light, seen for example in E=mc^2.

[rfa]

@Than_Bogan ....in that case, I'm willing to give you all the credit for new ski...ha...i also was able to watch with @lpskier Adam ski yesterday at the ERs...impressive ski and skier. Probably more important, I met and chatted with Adam for while and thoroughly enjoyed discussing the ski as well as personal stuff...very nice young man.

As an old engineer with grad degree on fluid/aero dynamics, I was very happy to discuss the ski design with Adam (I did tell him I don't remember any of that science stuff). When they have a 65in ski, who knows what I'll do?? Haha

...and no, I did not ski well myself...but then again, I wasn't on a c (lower case) 65...

 

[thager]

@Than_Bogan I c! Sure wish I could try one.

[AdamCord]

@lpskier @rfa it was great to talk to both of you guys this weekend!

 

@lpskier I take no offense about my skiing, I know for certain that this ski is letting me ski above my abilities. Before this year I had run 38off once in a tournament. So far this year I've run it 9 out of 12 tournament rounds, and the few I missed were in some pretty adverse conditions.

 

@Razorskier1 you haven't yet experienced this (new) level of stability/forgiveness in the turn. We haven't really talked in this thread much about the S-Wing. The design of the wing is such that coming into the turn the wing acts like a bigger wing than it is, pulling the whole ski very deep into the water. The result is you feel very slow and stable into the buoy and through the turn. From the backside of the turn and into the wakes, however, it acts like a smaller wing and lets the ski lift higher in the water and accelerate. This works because the cross section of the wing relative to the flow of water changes drastically as the direction of the water flow changes. I'm sure that sounds like BS but I promise, there is legit hydrodynamics behind the design and it works!

 

This let's us get away with running a ski design that naturally rides very tail deep, which is awesome in the turns but traditionally would be slower behind the boat. The wing let's the tail lift as you pull into and through the wakes, making the ski much faster and more efficient in that zone.

 

This is why I can get away with skiing like a wally :#

[Razorskier1]

@AdamCord - sounds like a winner! If I can get consistent at 35 off again and start running 38's it might be time for a test drive!

[lkb]

@AdamCord I placed an order but haven't received the ski yet...can I go ahead and join the Denali forum? Not sure how to access it, if so.

And can you give me any updates on how production is going?(order #95)

[AdamCord]

@lkb I just got off the phone with @adamhcaldwell. He's up to his elbows in epoxy so your ski should ship soon. I'll email you an update with more info.

[skihart]

I find it amazing that these skis are being hand built by @adamhcaldwell. Not some guy in a warehouse in an industrial plaza pumping them out, but by the guy/guys that actually engineered the thing! Crazy cool! It makes the price tag seem kinda cheap in retrospect.

 

Out of all the new skis out there this is the one that I would love to try the most.

[Wish]

I watched a "How It's Made" episode on some exotic car. The final inspection was done by the designer/engineer/race driver all rapped up into one guy. Quality control on steroids. Guessing that adds a few more bucks to the car build with that kind of quality control

[B_S]

Like @lkb , I'm like a kid waiting for Christmas (order 97)! A ski that turns easily, accelerates quickly, AND is easy on the body? Yes please!

[CaleBurdick]

by the way guys, if you ever get a chance to try an S-wing, don't just slap it on your own ski and expect magic. I, against sound advice, tried that. The wing alone doesn't do what Adam described above. It only makes sense as a whole, with the right fin and binding adjustments on a Denali. Comparing how the S-Wing felt at first to when I dialed in all the other necessary settings was night and day....tight lines for days! and tight lines equal better skiing and less injury.

[Horton]

@wish have you ordered your C-65 yet?

[Than_Bogan]

What's a C-65?

[AdamCord]

After the Big Dawg debacle @adamhcaldwell said he was going back to 36mph for a while. He's been busy building skis so he grabbed a production 66" and took it out for a test spin last night...

 

39 and 41 @36mph

[Bruce_Butterfield]

That boy gets some serious lean out of his offside turn! Ski looks good too.

[Than_Bogan]

Woah. He's gonna RUN that pretty soon...

 

My latest intel was that some c-65s might ship today!? Despite my mere 0.001% contribution to the design of this ski, I am awfully excited to see what it does in the hands of mortals. (Eventually including me, but I've gone and hurt myself...)

[Adam Caldwell]

As @AdamCord Cord mentioned, I skied a total of three practice sets last week at 34mph to dial into the BigDawg event this past weekend that unfortunately fell through for me....

 

Im not much for sharing video of my skiing, but here is a clip of 34mph/39.5 on a stock 67".

 

Compare to 36mph/39.5 on a stock 66" here.

 

Fin numbers and flex progressions are nearly identical on both skis, with roughly 1/2" boot position change (29.75 to 30.25) with fin set between 2.475-2.485, 6.830, and .725 with a 10-11deg wing on each one.

 

At a towering 5'9" - I havn't felt like 41off was a possibility for me to run cleanly EVER. However, the last two times I have cut to 41 I am getting looks at 4 ball that are blowing my mind...easier feeling then 39 was even 3-4 years ago. Crazy considering I don't spend more then couple sets on a ski before pulling my bindings off and jumping on something else.

 

My lifelong goal, and motivation behind ski design and GUT Theory is to Run 41 in a Record tournament at 36mph. I figure until that happens, we have a lot of work to do. Its no doubt that this new C-65 is a game changer for everyone I have seen mount it up thus far. In all honesty, I am afraid to change anything about the design. I think @AdamCord would agree.

 

The plan now is to stay on this shape for the next 12-18mo and work with the masses to tweak and optimize fin settings more and more to help other people share the physical and emotional experience of running the slalom course on a Denali!

 

[ktm300]

The real metaphysical mind blower is that in the 36 vid you were driving and skiing.

[MattP]

@adamhcaldwell just looking at the loads out of the buoy.. ever have any back trouble?

[B_S]

@Than_Bogan I hope your Intel is correct, because this waiting is torture!

[AdamCord]

@MattP He's actually a lot lighter on the line and smoother now than he used to be (vid from 2009)

 

Skip to about halfway through to get to the good stuff :#

 

[Adam Caldwell]

Thanks a lot @AdamCord for sharing that. I truely have to thank my good friend Scott Behner in NH for that amaing editing and sweet audio track to my gnarly shredding back in the day. Thank God theres no footage (except for on VHS) when I got started in the course in 1999/2000

 

@MattP - Never had back issues. Im sure it may look like a lot of load, but its really not. I have been tweaking fins on skis since I started the slalom course in 2000. I figured out a long time ago, that a small tweak to a fin can take away LOTS of unnecessary LOAD and produce speed instead of excessive line tension and drag on the ski.

 

The trick with fin setup is to remove enough surface area that the tail has just enough downcourse slip when loading/pulling into the first wake that you don't get ripped apart by center-line and can stay connected, yet still be stable enough to shut down and turn early and not send you flying past the next ball. This is where the FAT Fin tuning (Asymectric Fin Area) on a Denali comes into play, and really is magical once dialed in.

[CsSkis]

Two comments:

(A) @adamhcaldwell has made huge advances in his skiing since 2009.

(B) @adamhcaldwell made my mouth drop open and say various expletives regarding his skiing in the 2017 video, above. If he gets much lower to the water in his turn he will need a snorkel.

[MattP]

@AdamCord that's some good video right there.

@adamhcaldwell interesting makes since and seems to be working well for you.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

Oh to be young and strong!

[MattP]

@Wish when is your C-65 showing up in OTown?

[AdamCord]

@MattP here's a casual 39off 34mph pass for you. This is about as low energy as Caldwell gets:

 

[MattP]

@AdamCord BOOM that's awesome!

[rfa]

Wow...great videos, great skiing! Curious @AdamCord, what was the Big Dawg debacle you mentioned above?

Sent you a email last week, just in case you missed it.

[AdamCord]

@rfa You can read about the Big Dawg situation here. TLDR Caldwell wasn't allowed to compete and it's @Horton's fault.

 

Email replied ;)

[Razorskier1]

Caldwell can flat out ski! I've seen it! He is right about loads though. He keeps his speed, so loads are less. Those of us that slow down at or after the turn generate way higher loads at longer lines than Caldwell. All about the speed -- with enough of that, you can lean as hard as you want!

[Ed_Johnson]

@Razorskier1 .... Agree 100% on that one. In all the Formula Race Driving Schools I ever attended, a main ingredient was "Acceleration off the Apex." Look at skiers like Nate who so efficiently move their COM off the Apex and immediately generate a ton of acceleration combined with angle.

 

That technique of smearing the ski as you drop in versus skidding the ski is HUGE. The difference being with smear, the tail is moving to set angle while ACCELERATING. With a skid the tail is moving, but you are SLOWING down. Ala, a Hockey Stop. Followed by a huge load that is sometimes unsustainable.

 

Answer being, Caldwell, Nate Smith, these Guy's can generate acceleration INTO load and SUSTAIN the tremendous angle they set so efficiently.

 

I also credit the Adam's for ultimate adjust-ability of the Fin/Fin Box on the c-65 with differential depth adjustment, plus the S Wing. This will aid in dialing in smear and acceleration.

 

 

 

 

[Horton]

Everything is my fault

[Razorskier1]

@Horton - that applies to pretty much everything, not just water skiing.

[Razorskier1]

@Ed_Johnson - wish I could do it as well!!! Regardless of ski, I've always had a tendency to snap a hard turn, stop the ski in the water, then get the slingshot across the wake. Funny thing is that if I really work to do what the great skiers do, then I am WAY earlier to the next ball. In a 16-17 second pass, that "moment" where you stop and then need to re-accelerate is a big, big deal. Smoothing it out and keeping it moving makes all the difference in the world (doesn't feel as "aggressive" but you are way faster). Your analogy of a hockey stop is perfect, cuz that's what my turns sometimes feel like. Today I spent time at my easier lines just trying to be good at moving through the turn. Much easier, much faster, much earlier and more consistent.

[Skoot1123]

The "65" in the name of the ski - anything to do with Atomic #65 in the periodic table of elements?

[Adam Caldwell]

Ha - don't hear much about Tb65 very often!

@Skoot1123

[Than_Bogan]

To be honest, I'd never even heard of Terbium until I just looked up atomic number 65. Looks like its most significant use is now obsolete: CRTs. So perhaps not the ideal thing to name a cutting edge ski after. :)

[Skoot1123]

@Than_Bogan yes it is (was) used in CRT's but is also used in x-ray machines, lasers, fiber optics, and iPods among other things.

Lasers and the speed of light, now that is a combination.

[CaleBurdick]

you guys are dorks

[gt2003]

Should let someone like me (3@15 off, 26 mph) ski one and see how it performs on this end...68 or 69 inch please! Will return in perfect condition...if I return it! Hmm, is it the magic unicorn???