Another wing vs. no wing question

[srr5008]

I had this buried in my "new ski" thread, and figured my question might get more views if it had it's own thread. I finally got a chance to use my new ski last week (Radar Senate Alloy). Made a huge difference coming from off of my dad's old undersized Cypress Gardens Tech-1. However there was one thing I did have an issue with that I think/hope can be fixed with adjustments.

 

While the ski did seem to corner pretty hard, it felt like I was crossing the wake pretty flat. The ski didn't seem to want to lay over on the edge as easily as my dad's old ski. I was wondering if removing the wing from the fin might help with this? (I've never had any experience with a ski that had a wing) Also, the spotter noted that I wasn't throwing up much water when I skied (compared to my dad's old ski, which was always throwing up a rooster tail). This also led me to believe that the wing might be part of the issue, as I read in a waterski mag article that they recommended removing the wing for throwing up more water when freeskiing. For what it's worth, I could care less about how I look as far as throwing water is concerned, but I would like to see if there is something I can tweak to get the ski to go on "edge" a little more when crossing the wake. The overall ride seemed a bit tamer than what I was hoping for (minus the hard cutting on the outside).

 

For what it's worth, I'm skiing a full length rope @ 34mph.

[RazorRoss3]

@SkiJay will know best.

 

The ski being relatively flat in the wakes is not a bad thing if you have generated enough speed and direction from the turn to the wakes, at 34mph you only want to be pulling so much longer than that.

 

Point of clarification, by "full line" do you mean long line or 15off?

 

 

[srr5008]

Full line (sorry for my amateur slalom terminology lol) . I also meant to clarify that I am free-skiing and not running the course. I have not mastered a single-handed turn yet, so I also wasn't sure if that might contribute to me not getting enough angle to keep the ski on edge. However I do ski pretty aggressively two-handed and have never had a problem putting a ski on edge when crossing the wake.

 

Our boat is a jet boat that does not have an ideal ski wake (creates a table that is 8-12" higher than the adjacent water) so being on edge to knife through it is ideal. That's what I am trying to get out of this ski.

[LeonL]

Lean more. Seriously, if you truly are having a difficult time rolling the ski from one edge to the other, you might try taking some depth out of the fin.

[eleeski]

Your fin should be checked to make sure it is close to recommended settings.

 

I find that the wing helps most aspects of skiing. However I usually don't have skiers add the wing until they are at or near their maximum speed in the course. It helps make that top speed feel easier. But it is a very subtle effect.

 

Jet boats are a challenge. There's just not enough traction in the jet so you end up pulling the boat speed down a lot. The feel is quite different from an inboard. And as you noted, the wake whacks you. A strong leverage position through the wakes is critical. Honestly, get as many rides behind a tournament boat (with coaching) as possible and your skills will progress faster.

 

Eric

 

 

[SkiJay]

@srr5008 I'd reinforce what @eleeski said above about making sure you have a proper factory recommended setup on the ski. The odds are overwhelmingly in favor of your fin and bindings NOT being where they should be, regardless of where the ski came from. By your description, it sounds like the fin may be too deep, but you'll do well to find someone with the right tools and skills to check your setup.

 

As for the wing, it won't make the ski ride flatter through the wakes. It's basically a brake that provides adjustable drag to the ski for powerful skiers who have too much speed into each turn. While it increases the skier's workload a bit, it also has the effect of making the ski feel a bit more stable. If you are still working hard to get out to course width, you might like how much taking the wing off frees up the ski for more effortless skiing.

[srr5008]

Binding and fin adjustments appear to be stock. Pardon my ignorance, but i dont see how you would adjust fin depth? Unless the thickness of the ski changes from front to back? (Meaning that moving it forwards/backwards would expose or hide more of the fin)

[RazorRoss3]

On a fin block there is a screw at the back facing forward, this moves the fin forward/backward affecting the distance from tail DFT

 

there are screws down the sides facing into the fin, these just hold it in place

 

There are screws along the top of the block pointing down on top of the fin, these screws set how far the fin can be pushed up into the ski, if you adjust these screws tighter then the fin cannot move up into the ski as far so the fin will be deeper, if you loosen these screws the fin will be able to be pressed farther up into the ski, shallower. Without the proper measuring tools I have made slight adjustments in the past, generally working in 1/8th rotations of the screwdriver although there are several skiers who will call me crazy for making an adjustment without measuring equipment.

[dhofert]

Being on the alloy I don't believe you have an option to adjust your fin.

[srr5008]

@dhofert that would explain my confusion! Guys at Radar suggested I remove the fin. I'll start there.

[Andre]

@srr5008

I wouldn't remove the fin but ,hey what do i know.

The wing maybe... ;)

[skialex]

I just checked the ski at Performance, fin is not adjustable, you can either move it one hole forward or backward.

I would measure and check boot placement.

Do not rely on middle hole for stock.

Then try moving fin forward.

Or you can buy an adjustable Radar fin/finbox and replace it, but that might create more issues

[eleeski]

In the old days, we would put shims under the fin to shallow it up. I added shims until the ski slipped out , then removed the last one. I like a shallow fin as I'm willing to trade stability for quick turning.

 

Try antifreeze plastic bottles for a shim. They are easy to cut, thick enough that you might notice a slight difference and can be added together. Note that the evaluation process for your changes might make your skills and body awareness improve a lot. It can be quite fun!

 

Eric

[Ralph Lee]

I tend to believe that as fast and effortless skis are these days, everyone should use a wing.

[srr5008]

@Andre

 

Good catch. I'm sure removing the fin would make things interesting, to say the least! :D

[ScottScott]

If you're like most of us long liners, you are probably riding the back of the ski a little. With the weight on the back of the ski, its not going to be as fast as when you get better balance on the ski. In that case, the extra drag of the wing is not only needed but will make you work harder than needed. I'm taking the advice I've seen to leave it off till short line (and by the time I get to anything that would quality for short line, I'll probably be on a different ski.) Especially just free skiing....I would definitely leave it off.

[Hockdog]

Fins are overrated.......

[mopowpow]

I pulled the wing off my ski several years ago. I was surprised at how well my ski carried out to the ball. I could get an earlier edge change and not work as hard. I'm in my mid 50s and ski 28-32 mph 15 off.

[TallSkinnyGuy]

You mentioned in the original post that you are not throwing up as much spray as with the old ski. I'm not a physics expert or water flow engineer, but my theory is that a wider ski that keeps you up higher in the water will create a smaller spray than a narrower ski that sits deeper in the water (all else being equal). A smaller spray does not mean the ski is not working correctly or that something needs to be adjusted.