DD when Buying on Private Ski Lake

[GRSkier]

First of all, sorry if this post is off-topic. I don't see any sub-forums, though, so I'm hoping posting here is kosher.

 

Here's my question: Say you're looking at purchasing a home on a private, man-made ski lake in Florida. Aside from all of the standard due diligence stuff you would do related to the "dry" real estate (i.e., inspection of the home, survey of the property lines, review of title commitment, etc.), what sort of additional due diligence tasks would you want to complete related to the lake?

 

For example... water tests? Maybe some sort of environmental/geologic survey to determine average water levels? If anyone who has been through this in the past can share their knowledge about what's "standard" in this niche real estate market, it'd be much appreciated. Thanks!

[Andre]

Talk to the neighbors.

See what kind of peoples they are.

Not everyone is friendly and fun to be around.

Also short terms rental houses (if allowed)near your can bring a lot of peoples that think because they are on vacations they re allowed to do anything.

[BraceMaker]

Be curious what people bring up - but I've been surprised by how many properties I see listed on private ski lakes where even if you buy the home you have little/no chance of skiing.

 

Usually the lake will seek to prevent/control skiing/boat rights in order to ensure that;

A the lake isn't damaged

B the lake doesn't have 20 docks/lifts/boats on it.

 

This means that only a certain number of people, usually the first few buyers actually can own their own boat, and then there is a ski club that operates on the lake that you have to join/participate with to ski it.

 

Those details are very important.

[Kelvin]

In no particular order

 

1. Lake use rules

2. Who can use the lakes - just the lot owner, immediate family, extended family, etc?

3. What enforcement mechanisms exist to ensure compliance with the rules?

3. How do turns work? Per boat, per lot, etc

4. How is a turn defined?

5. Guest Policies

6. Restrictions on the type of boat allowed - 3 event only or other?

7. Are PWCs allowed?

7. HOA/POA Dues levels

8. History of separate HOA Assessments - for things not covered by the dues.

9. What does it take to change the bylaws/lake use rules? Simple majority or some supermajority?

10. HOA Finances - do all your neighbors actually pay their HOA dues?

11. HOA Reserve levels to cover major repairs like roads/lake dredging, etc.

12. HOA/Lake Insurance

13. Is leasing allowed - home only or ski rights as well?

14. Tournament activity?

 

[LoopSki]

Request a copy of cc&r , should cover most of what you need.

[klindy]

And to add to what @Kelvin said - along with his #9, how "permanent" are the "traditional 3-event" Waterski rights. People change over time. So do their priorities. Even if it takes a super majority to make a change, are there any rules that can never change?

 

Make sure that "waterskiing" is clearly defined. You may think slalom and someone else will think slalom, trick, jump, wakeboard and tubing (or surfing). What takes precedence and who has priority. What happens if you're the only slalom skier on the lake? Does the course come out or do you do all the maintanance?

 

If jump is important, how many others are there, who maintains the jump? Costs?

 

The guest policy and how ski order is determined are especially important. Even if you do know people who live on the lake, they may move and you'll need a guess to drive, etc. If they can only ski once or twice a month, it'll be hard to find a driver.

[LakeOneSkier]

Not all ski lakes (and neighbors) are alike, I learned the hard way. ;) Go out there at midnight on few Fridays or Saturdays on a few different weekends. Are there one or two PITA neighbors who party all night all the time?

[Ed_Johnson]

I have lived on 5 Private Ski Lakes over the last 30 years. One in Hawaii, two in Texas, and two in Florida. Everyone of them has had Bylaws, similar to what is listed above. One thing I have learned for sure is you need to put yourself on the board governing the Lake, if at all possible. It is the best way to insure your rights are protected. On my current Lake here in Orlando, of the six member advisory board, three of us are Tournament Level skiers. This insures are rights are preserved with everything, including the budget, that gets passed.

 

[UWSkier]

@Ed_Johnson what do you mean by "rights are protected?" Are there actually people who move to these ski communities that want to limit property-owners from skiing? Or is it more people trying to infect lakes with things like tubes, wakesurfing, and PWCs?

[BraceMaker]

@UWSkier Yup - a few of the houses sell, a few peoples kids grow up and move away and next thing you know the property owners vote to fill in a land bridge to the turn islands so people can walk out there to fish. Or they vote on quiet hours.

 

[Kelvin]

No 2 lakes are the same and they all have some sort of drama. People buy property on ski lakes for a variety of reasons that may or may not align with your reasons for being there. Some may want to get rid of the jump because only 1 or 2 use it and it gets in the way of their wakesurfing, others may prefer not having tournaments, etc. Some may age out and quit skiing. If that happens to too many of your neighbors, it can be difficult to get them to pony up the funds when things need to happen.

 

A few years ago a pro skier that did a lot of traveling clinics commented that the ski lakes that held the original owners vision of a 3-event tournament friendly lake the best were those with a single owner that made all the decisions and ran the lake as a club, but even those situations can come and go - i.e. Cottonwood.

[klindy]

@Kelvin as our friend @ral says "benevolent dictator".

[Kelvin]

@klindy Exactly!

[crashman]

In addition to the rules/by laws when I bought my lot I wanted to get a feel for the mechanics of controlling the water level- a good water source and controlled outlet to ensure droughts and floods wouldn't interfere with the ski season.

[BraceMaker]

Best I've seen acts like a camp ground slabs for trailers. Water hookup and no owners

[Ed_Johnson]

@UWSkier ... Depends on the kind of Lake you are on. Texas was the best, since the Lakes were purposely built as Tournament Level Ski sites. In Hawaii and Florida, even though you may be on a Private Lake, your in a situation where a majority of Home Owners are not skiers. Now your facing Fishermen, Tubers, PWC's, etc.

When I was in Hawaii, I had to fight like hell to keep the Slalom Course in. Fortunately the Pres. of the Board was a 70 year old Slalom Skier. Here in Orlando only the 3 of us on the Board use the Slalom Course and have convinced the others that it will increase their Home Values to have it in place. So each situation can be different. Always check the existing Bylaws and who is on the Board.

 

 

[GRSkier]

Thank you all very much for the comments. I'm working my way through the DCCRs, bylaws, etc. I haven't seen anything crazy... yet. The thing I keep coming back to is my desire to understand the lake's water levels. The lake was dug maybe ten years ago, and I don't think it has any streams or creeks flowing into it. I've been told the lake is simply "fed" by the underground aquifer/water table. I suppose that means I need to get an understanding of how much the water table fluctuates seasonally.

[BraceMaker]

And if they spend 10 grand a year running a well.

[StephenFawcett]

All of the above, and stability of the existing owners on multiple levels and future expectations of same.

[Bobross]

My wife and I have lived on a three event water ski lake for the last 10 years. The kids have moved out and my wife no longer skis so we're looking to downsize. I'm concerned the local Realtors will not know how to market our home. Any recommendations on how to get the word out to those interested in living on a 3 event lake?

[MISkier]

@Bobross,

 

First, tell people on this forum about the sale and provide details and photos.

 

Second, put a listing on Ski-it-Again in the real estate section.

 

Third, see if there are opportunities to get exposure through boat dealers. Sometimes, word of mouth can connect potential buyers and sellers.

[jjackkrash]

Have a land use lawyer look at the CC&Rs and and have him tell you what rights you have that are "property rights" that can't be changed over your objection and what "rights" you have that can be voted out by a board. "Rights" that are subject to a vote are not really rights.

[lpskier]

@Bobross Start by filling out your BOS profile so that we know where you ski.

[skimtb]

If you are Bob Ross, I’d start by painting a picture of the lake and house for your advertising. With lots of little happy trees.

Sorry. Couldn’t resist.

Agree with above - ski it again and here.

Also, are there other clubs in your area? Let them know.

Maybe MC, Malibu and nautique forums as well.

[mwfillmore]

@bobross I would do exactly what @MISkier said. And I would also put an advertisement through USA waterski. Good Luck.

[LakeOneSkier]

@Bobross , we sold a home on a private lake a few years ago. We did the research, we knew the market, we knew the comps, etc. Just for grins we had a realtor come out and give us her opinion. She was supposedly the top rep in her office, talked a lot about herself, looked at the house and went on her way to do her research. She came back a week later with a very professional looking assessment and proposal. We said thank you very much but no thanks. We sold the home 6 weeks later for $100k more than what the Realtor told us it was worth.

 

Unless you are in FL where you can find a rep who knows about 3-event private lake living, do your own research.

[Stevie Boy]

I have never owned a lake property but know of several in Florida, what I am aware of is that there can be some hidden cost, some of the properties I know of, there is a Huge variation on yearly running costs, you may have the money to buy, but do you have the income to maintain and run it.

[teammalibu]

Number one by law at Cedar Ridge is that it would take a 100% vote of the property owners to limit skiing in any way!

 

[Drago]

Define “skiing”...

[teammalibu]

Tournament slalom skiing!

[MISkier]

@Drago,

 

Here is the definition:

 

Skiing (noun) - /’skeeiNG/

 

1. The activity involving a towed watersports configuration of powered watercraft, towrope and/or boom, and zero, one, or two water skis resulting in the ability of one or more human participants to traverse across the surface of the water. Ideally, the use of a series of floating buoys in a structured pattern is included, along with a floating wedge-shaped fixture used as a inclined launching surface to propel the participant into the air over the water surface.

2. The single most discriminated against activity on public waterways.

[Broussard]

Bring back the ramp! @teammalibu

 

[Drago]

Nice, so that includes wake board, surf. No tubing