Are high end skis for everyone?

[Andre]

Simply put.

If you're skiing 28-30 mph, 15 off on the latest top of the line ski outhere can it be bad for your skills or will it help any level skier already on a decent ski ?

Example:If you're on a Pro built,will you get more bouys moving to a Senate?

[Chef23]

I think you might get more buoys on a Senate than a Vapor if you are struggling to run 15 off. The Senate will be more forgiving of errors in body position.

[Stevie Boy]

Whether it be a Pro Build or Senate I would think both of those skis start to work properly @34 mph and are OK @32mph the senate is definitely going to ride better at the lower speeds just because it is going to have more area in contact with the water giving you more support especially in the turns @28 - 30 mph I would suggest that the Senate would be better, I am not talking more bouys, I am talking about the ability to improve technique which would then give you the opportunity to score more bouys.

If you do not have Technique there is not a ski on this planet that will give you more bouys.

[andjules]

I think there are two aspects to this:

1. shape (+ size)

2. stiffness/materials

 

1. I think there is a benefit to being on a less-than-pro shape/model when you are a less-than-deep-shortline skier. As others have stated, a ski one-or-two levels down in the product lineup will be more stable, forgiving, and ride better in the turns at slower speeds. As @Stevie Boy hints at, your boat speed affects things, so when you see a manufacturer's size chart, if your weight is near the upper limit for a particular size of ski that is designed for 32-34, you might want to consider sizing up a little if you are going to be skiing at 28-30.

 

2. Despite all that, if you are skiing the course, in my opinion, you still want a relatively stiff ski made with good materials. Lower-level skis are often made with little or no carbon fibre and cheaper materials to save money. If — as is becoming more common these days — the ski you're looking at comes in two versions, one with cheaper materials/layup and one with stiffer, choose the stiffer one. When you finish your turn and need to get to the next buoy in a rush, you'll be thankful. Stiffer, lighter skis (combined with good technique) take a lot less effort to generate speed.

[BraceMaker]

Imo that specific zone is the zone of pain. Where mortal skiers bang their skull at 15 off and struggle.

 

Switching it up going to one of the newer hybrids and working on shorter lines with lessons and specifically then they can and should demo skis as part of those lessons.

[Windsurfnut]

I’m a 15’ off 30mph skier and had both a graphite senate and graphite vapor. Hands down the senate is a better ski for me. Vapor was too quick to accelerate and didn’t support me in turns. Senate let me get more bouys but more importantly, let’s me focus on technique versus being too conservative on the vapor

[OldboyII]

I'm 15off and ski Senate. Surely this ski for me for forseable period of time. But from time to time I switch to Goode XT which immediately shows me my mistakes because it is less forgiving.

 

[Keith_Menard]

I am by no means an example to follow...but I went from a Senate to a Vapor Pro Build during the mass 2018 upgrade and took advantage of the 2017 used ski pricing.

 

It was like I didn't know how to ski

 

(check out this gem)

 

But precisely because it is less forgiving than my Senate (I never even knew what that meant until I jumped on the 66" Vapor from a 67" Senate) that I have had to work even harder on my form. You get instant feedback on the Vapor...rear pressure? Oh...that's ok Mr. skier guy, I am just going to stop and let you figure out what you did wrong while you gather all that slack that is about to go away. Balanced on the ski and good tip pressure in the turn? REV UP THAT ENGINE, WE ARE GOING FOR A RIDE!

[swc5150]

My wife is a 24 to 26mph -15 skier, with newbie technique but good balance. Can't speak to the Senate, but she tried our niece's Lyric and couldn't wait to get back on my Vapor LE. The sluggishness of the Lyric in comparison made her use more energy/effort to ride it, if that makes sense? I think it's more about the individual's comfort zone and not so much the level of the ski. My brother still shreds on a white top Nomad but can't get used to any of the modern sticks he's tried.

[Deke]

@swc5150 what size are the Lyric and Vapor she rode. At that speed size is going to make a big difference, Maybe more than anything else.

[swc5150]

@Deke Both 66".

[foxriverat]

I'm a 30 mph skier on a 16 66 lithium vapor at 5'6 165 I came off a 67 senate. I just love the way the vapor turns compared to the senate. Could be the size also. I had a pb over the weekend of 4 and 1/2 at 28 off.

[Lobonator]

Kinda comparing apples go oranges here because the shape is different. I'm 6' 155 lbs and I demoed both the 67" 17 lithium Senate and 66" 2018 vapor pro build back to back. I'm s freakier and am just learning the course, but felt way more stable on the vapor at 34mph than on the Senate. For some reason that shape felt so natural compared to the Senate (which is a fantastic ski) and I immediately skied better every pass. I haven't ridden any lower end course skis, but IMO a lot of the modern course skis are going to be plenty forgiving and will have significant performance advantaged down the line

[BraceMaker]

Be nice if there was an equivelent of blacked out hockey sticks for slalom skis. Make sure when you try different skis that you check their fin measurements and boot spacing. Particularly on skis eith slider fins atleast check the DFT and boot position.

[Deke]

Be nice if there was an equivelent of blacked out hockey sticks for slalom skis.

@BraceMaker what do you mean?

[BraceMaker]

@deke there is a company that sells unmarked hockey sticks. No logos or stickers or ID. Id wager that if you had a variety of skis like senates lyrics vapor pro builds d3 skis ho and connelly and you could disguise them enough so a skier wasn't sure what they were using they probably would pick a dofferent ski than when they know. My wife is on a Vice i want to try her on a womens omni. She probably won't like the graphics...

[swc5150]

No graphics to sway your mind set. We used to do that with alpine skis back in my racing days.

[baja]

I'm 64 years old, 6'2", 175 pounds, 30-32mph @ 15 off. Skis have been 2014 Senate Carbon, 2016 Vapor Lithium, 2017 Senate Lithium. All skis have been 67"and skied each ski for 2 full seasons. Always the same boots Radar Vapor/Strada /RS-1 over the years. Never changed boots at the same time as changing a ski. Always set the fin and boot settings accurately to the same Rini or Rossi numbers I'd been using. Skied 3 days a week almost year round for the last 5 years, so 200+ set a year. Always at my club lake at The Quarry in Corona, Ca. (which now is shut down with no water). All the major variables of boots, fin setup, site, boat and conditions are neutralized. So when I changed my ski, I would take one safety pass without chasing the balls to make sure nothing felt odd... never did. Then straight into my normal set. Run my 30 mph opener 3 or 4 times in a row, then run 32mph a few times. Each ski felt very similar but only "better" in some subtle way that I continued to appreciate the more I skied the new ski. Changing from the 2016 Vapor to the 2017 Senate Lithium I definitely felt the Senate was easier on my body after skiing. I believe that the RADAR design philosophy for the Senate as a slightly wider version (0.2 inches) of their highest performance ski is key to my experience.

[Chef23]

When comparing skis if you are comparing a Vapor to a Lyric it is way more than a shape comparison as the construction is very different from the Vapor to Lyric. The closest thing you can do now is compare the same construction Vapor to Senate as they are the same ski with a little more width.

 

@Lobonator you are probably on the small side of the 67" Senate so I am not surprised you felt a substantial difference between a 66" Vapor and 67" Senate.

 

Most of the 34 mph skis (Senate, Omni, V) don't come in even lengths. My guess is that most skiers looking at those skis aren't at quite the same level so the length isn't quite as sensitive. I do think if you are looking at 28 off and shorter the even lengths could make a difference. The ski manufacturers might feel they won't sell enough of them to justify the molds.

[Deke]

@BraceMaker agreed about the bias/brand loyalty/marketing of skis! BUT what is the company with blacked out hockey sticks??? US or Canada?

[Bill22]

@swc5150 they don't make a 66" Lyric... just saying