New Skier: Achieving proper lean through wake

[mccowherd2006]

I'm in my second season of water skiing and I'm trying to gain confidence and form in crossing the wake. Currently I tend to lean against the boat, up until the wake, then flatten out over the wake, and then lean again. I miss the bouy every time (of course), So I'm looking for advice on how to mentally and physically change my technique.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Matt

[markn]

Welcome to the obsession and good for you! What you describe is typical of most new skiers. Seems counter-intuitive to "edge or lean" through that big wake. Seems safer to go flat, then lean again after the wake. First step is to practice proper body position for edging through the wake. One excercise is to shorten the rope to 32 off and practice leaning/edging on the side of the boat. Do so progressively and practice good body position. Knees bent, hips to handle with solid core. Work on both sides. Once you feel comfortable with that position, slow things down, lengthen the rope back to 15 off and maybe free ski using the newly learned position going through the wakes. Be aggressive and hey, if you fall, you get wet.

You can also do narrower linked turns rather than going all the way outside to buoy width. Again, progressively get more aggressive as you turn from white water to white water.

As far as mental.....probably not the best guy to ask. My skiing is "strong like bull, smart like cow". Good luck and have fun on your search for buoys.

[bsmith]

@mccowherd2006 You can minimize the hit on the wake by playing with both speed and your rope length. So first dial in the combination of speed and rope length that minimizes the wake and is also compatible with your current skiing ability.

 

But even after that is done, you ultimately just have to gird up and hit the wake while holding your ski on edge. And you may take some falls as your body learns what position affords the best balance and strength needed to hold an edge through the wakes.

 

You will also find that once you commit to holding an edge through the wakes that you will not get bumped as bad as you thought you would.

 

As you learn to cross the wakes with speed, video yourself, and do your absolute best not to get bent over at the waist. Beginners do this a lot because it helps their balance, but it takes away greatly from your strength and the ability to create cross course angle.

 

You will progress faster if you will just go for it like these beginners do in this thread https://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/23597/fun-video-of-me-and-a-buddy-learning-the-slalom-course

 

[mccowherd2006]

@markn - Thanks! I have become "quite obsessed" with this sport. I never thought I would have liked it, and honestly I was kind of "forced" into it at first on two skis. After a few times getting up on two I became bored and tried for a mono-ski. The rest is in the history books. Your response is definitely helpful! When I say "mental" I think about the body's mental response to "that's scary and doesn't feel right." Practice has certainly helped, but I'm anxious to run the full course @ 29 and 15. Right now I'm achieving ball 2 and 6, but that's as close as I've gotten.

[mccowherd2006]

@bsmith Thanks for your response! I'll check out your link!

[david_quail]

The funny thing is that as you advance, you'll eventually find the problem is that you're cutting too long across the wake. Pretty much every intermediate skier I know (including myself) cuts too long and then has too much speed going into the turn. The key is to generate all the speed before the first white wash so that you can start coming out of your cut and then have your edge changed right after center-line.

 

Ankles flexed, hips forward above your front foot, proud chest, long arms, leaning towards the wakes (rather than straight back of the boat), and you hardly feel the wake. (easier said than done). The worse your body position is, the worse the wake feels.

 

The easiest time to practice this position is when you pull out to start a pass, and when you pull out after a pass. You're not contending with any wake then, but it's the same idea.

 

 

 

 

[mccowherd2006]

@david_quail Thanks for your response! Your insight is helpful!

[Fam-man]

@mccowherd2006 google Seth Stisher Whips and you will see a good drill focusing on body position through wakes using smaller cuts.

Another drill I use is to pull out left and glide then cut in across wake like a gate shot focusing on strength and position. Then glide on right side and cut across wake like backwards gate shot focusing on body position. This helps manage speed and give more opportunity to set body position.

As you learn speed and body position start linking turns and work on width.

 

If you havent already do some searching and reading about stack and body position on this forum.

Listen to spraymakers podcast on core fundamentals

[vtmecheng]

I know this may sound like a crap answer but... Get coaching! Don't wait thinking you should take time to get yourself better first, go now while you have fewer bad habits really rooted. You will save yourself a lot of frustration and probably injuries by going and listening to a good coach. There are plenty of threads on here about good places to go depending on where you are or are willing to travel. Also, I'll reiterate video. Get a skidoc or some other video camera/phone holding device and record. Most find that their body isn't doing they thought. Video is not a replacement for coaching though. You may think, say, that the problem is your position just after one ball but could stem from an issue way back at your gate turn-in. A good coach will see the big problems and tackle them first.

[david_quail]

@vtmecheng I'd echo your thoughts on coaching. And I'd also say that I'd suggest sticking to one single coach. Otherwise you'll get a million and one different things to focus on said a million and one different ways. People are well intentioned ... but sometimes getting inundated with advice by everyone is counterproductive.

 

Stick to a single "coach" who should give you one single thing to focus on at a time. And just listen to that.

[mccowherd2006]

@Fam-man - Thanks for your response! I've seen a lot of advocates for "leaning drills" and I'll definitely look into your other advice mentioned!

 

@vtmecheng - Thanks for your response! I'm actually training locally with Corey Vaughn, which has taken my skiing from 0-100. I'm just trying to research as much as possible "behind the scenes" from other people in ways of explaining the tactics in achieving greatness in slalom skiing. Also, I use a camera regularly (thanks for that also) because I too find great value in watching myself ski. Usually I "feel" great, but then look like crap when I'm looking through a different lens.

[klindy]

@mccowherd2006 Corey Vaughn is an excellent choice for a coach at any level of ability. I'm sure you'll progress much faster with his help!

[vtmecheng]

Dude, I've been to Corey's. Do what he says and don't listen to anyone else. He does a really good job of telling you exactly what you need to work on and nothing more. Asking around and trying to read about ways to improve beyond what Corey is telling you will just twist your brain up in a knot. You're doing the right thing with a good coach, just trust him and be patient. Have fun out there, I can't speak highly enough of Corey. The man is a good person who loves the sport, wants to see you get better, and is all about having fun while doing it. A true class act.

[mccowherd2006]

@vtmecheng @klindy Corey is ah-mazing! Without a doubt .THE.BEST. instructor I've ever had for anything. My goal here is not to discount what he's saying, but sometimes people have another way in explaining the same information in a different way - that's all.

[Horton]

 

[Obrienslalom]

Matt, we met a Corey's recently. I'm sure you watched me ski...so you know what a hack I am and you shouldn't take my advice.

 

I have focused on achieving that stack position 'through' the wakes over the years. I'm not convinced that is worth it. I'm pretty sure you can all but stand up at the wakes and make it through the course at the beginner speeds/lengths we are working on.

 

Seems much more important to connect with the rope and generate enough speed to not feel like you need to pull again after the wake.

 

I think watching our own videos, it seems like the most glaring problem so we fixate on it (and we recognize there is a fear factor to it that we assume we just need to overcome). Watch these youtube videos and use ',' and '.' keys to go frame by frame. You'll see that you don't need to necessary "lean" through the wake. At least not to the extreme I had in my head.

 

 

Happy to be wrong. I'm a beginner too...

[ScottScott]

I'll 2nd @vtmecheng If you are getting regular coaching from someone like Corey, thats the only coaching you should be listening to. Tune out what anyone else tells you. They may have good advise, but no need to cloud your thoughts with other mechanics. Corey has seen you in person and picked out the areas you need to work on right now. Stay with that until you get it, and when you do get it he will see what area need to be worked on next.

[mccowherd2006]

@Obrienslalom It was nice meeting you and your wife at Corey's! We'd love to reconnect at LKA sometime if you're ever up for it! PS: I wouldn't call you a hack … not in the least. When I watch pro's and advanced skiers it seems they are almost "laying" on the water as they pass through the wake. Naturally this feels weird and I think many of us, me included, feel that sensation and tend to stand up over the wake to maintain our balance.

 

Again - I'm definitely NOT trying to override what Corey is teaching, but rather taking any advice from people who are better than me. As I became a Paramedic I learned that you should take all the advice you can, analyze it for what it is, use what's helpful and disregard the rest.

[vtmecheng]

@mccowherd2006 if you are able to successfully figure out which advice is worth taking in and which to disregard, you are way better than I am. In course skiing, there are some concepts that seem like the right idea at face value but not in practice. Just a word of caution from someone who has learned this the hard way. We all want so badly to get better but I found listening to someone other than Corey, who isn't a true coach, will just cause you to either stagnate or get worse.

 

Also, you should talk to Corey about "laying" over while going through the wake. I believe he will tell you that this is not the goal or something to strive for, but I could be wrong about that. Take a good hard look at those two videos @Obrienslalom posted (btw, why had I never heard of using , and . to go frame by frame?!?!). They are not leaning way over through the wakes. Also, Corey has told me multiple times that cutting through the wakes is simply untrue (another good thing to talk with him about). Check those videos frame-by-frame and tell me if the ski and their knees depict cutting through the wake or not.

[bsmith]

@mccowherd2006 I think if we had all known upfront that you were getting coaching from Corey Vaughn, we would have all said just do what Corey says. I was thinking that you were in a self coaching situation where the internet is your only coach. That is much harder because you really have to be careful when sifting through all the disparate advice you get just like @vtmecheng explained.

 

But even knowing now that you do have a great coach, I would still say that you have to go for it and not be afraid of taking hard falls. If you follow Corey's instruction and try really hard, you will be flying at the wakes in good control before you know it.

 

 

 

[vtmecheng]

I am sorry if I came across a bit harsh in my posts. I would hate for you to waste the time that I did listening to people who thought they knew what you needed to do. This is a fun sport but can be unbelievably frustrating as well. I really do believe that listening to Corey alone will result in the most gain and lowest chance of injury. Most important of all, have fun out there.

[DW]

In addition to good coaching, you should have a notebook handy to write down the key points and then re read them at various intervals to keep the important elements front and center as you improve.