How to improve my Slalom, first year and coming up on my last weekend - looking for some tips :)

[smokevw]

I'm not sure why but I can not post more than a few sentences here before the buttons are cut off to save. Using Chrome and Mac OS.

 

I have had to put it in as a comment below for my actual content for the post

[smokevw]

So I started to get back into Slalom this year and LOVING IT (I only ever did it a few times as a kid). Since the start of summer I have gone about 15 times and the other weekend picked up a new Radar Senate Alloy. I am loving the new ski even though I have only been out on it 3 times.

 

My biggest question is about form, technique and how to cross the wake. I have realized watching this video that I need to do a few things listed below.

 

What I am really looking for are some tutorial videos/instructions online that I can follow. I have found a few on youtube but they seem to be spread out and other than knowing I want to have my knees in front of hips, and hips in front of shoulders and be leaned back I have not found a lot more resources.

 

Here is a video of me... open to all criticism and hopefully thoughtful comments on what to work on.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/D2Zw7zKXmQKUn85N9

 

Skiing behind a 2001 Malibu VLX, in this video it was loaded with a few extra people that would not normally be there (maybe 700 lbs)

 

I have been going at 30-31mph and last week (this was rope at 70 feet) I took off 15 feet to see if it would be easier to cross the wake mid turn. (that is not shown here). Though I did find the wake less it seemed different to ski though I kept it at 15' off and it seemed to be less wake to deal with trying to cross.

 

I do think the following:

I may be leaning to far back (I can fell my back quad really burn) and looking at more videos they say I should have more weight on the front foot and be balanced, is that for the whole turn as well?

I need to make smaller carves so that there is not as much slack in the line and wait to coast to catchup to the boat speed

I need to figure out my upper body position on how to use it to go back and forth for carving

I need to figure out how to cross the wake

I need to know if its easier to do all this at a slower speed 28 mph etc

 

Thank you all for any input and I will be up at the lake for my last main weekend this weekend so looking for tips to get better :)

[smokevw]

Side note why can you not type long posts in the post section but only in the comments? It cuts off the buttons for me on Chrome on Mac?

[Keith_Menard]

1...check out Terry Winter. You can join his site and get a LOT of info

2...I am NOT Terry Winter, and the advice I am going to give you probably isn't worth much.

 

The biggest issue I see is that you are scared to death of that wake, and possibly rightly so. You are skiing in a defensive position to take up the wake when you hit it, but that defensive position has you bending at the waist. It is really hard to tell from the video if you can carve that wake as it appears high and hard, but even if it is, you still need to hit it with more angle. Look up 'pull out drills' and try that for a bit. If you ARE going to cross the wake...stop pulling once you cross it...the reason you are getting slack is because you are pulling all the way to your turn.

[Jerry44]

I agree with Keith that wakes would be the first thing to work on.

 

Take a look at this video:

 

 

When you start doing this drill I would start just a few feet outside the wake then gradually increase your distance outside the wake.

[ReallyGottaSki]

Wow, nice lake

Ok I'm excited for your enthusiasm

 

However, can't fix ones skiing till one fixes how they stand on the ski, and crossing the wakes isn't the place to correct it, it's before you even move left or right

 

For now, with minor hyperbole, forget the rear leg exists. If you can't do that, you may have the wrong leg forward, and its better to fix that sooner than never later.

[MNshortliner]

Is that a Malibu VLX you are skiing behind? If it is, I skied behind a ‘97 VLX my very first year skiing in the course. The wake is actually very skiable but only at 34-36 mph and 15 off.

[Than_Bogan]

Firstly: VERY smart to ask for advice right away. What people thinkthey see slalom skiers is very different from what we're really doing.

 

Indeed, most of the things on your list are basically irrelevant. The one and only thing you need to do is to figure out your leverage position with the ultimate goal of ripping through the wakes.

 

[i edited this because I at first l said the wake crossing should be your only focus, but that's not the best way to describe it. What you need first is to figure out your body position mechanics with a later goal of very high angle and speed through the wakes. That likely begins away from the wakes as some others have mentioned.]

 

Until you become very advanced, slalom is almost entirely about how fast you can get from side to side. Turns are far less important, and it's not even possible to turn correctly until you figure out your leverage position and lean against the line and rip through the wakes.

 

I believe it was @escmanaze who put together a "packet" of useful information for skiers starting out and who want to learn slalom correctly right from the start. If he doesn't chime in, I can try to find it.

[smokevw]

@"Keith Menard"

 

" It is really hard to tell from the video if you can carve that wake as it appears high and hard, but even if it is, you still need to hit it with more angle. Look up 'pull out drills' and try that for a bit. If you ARE going to cross the wake...stop pulling once you cross it...the reason you are getting slack is because you are pulling all the way to your turn."

 

Yes I feel like now that it is at 15' off it seems better to cross at that point in the wake, I tried 28' by accident and that was very little wake but felt WAY different to ride.

 

I looked up the pull out drills. When you talk about stop pulling once I cross it looks like you actually stop pulling just before crossing. See 1:21 here.

 

 

I do think my form is off though.

 

I have tried to do as they say here, and keep more pressure on my front foot.

 

 

I think the drills listed here should help Gordon Rathbun playlist of drills

 

but I do feel like when I am out there I will try to keep all these points, I think starting like the video above to keep the line taught as I go across the wake in smaller carves should help BUT I also need to pretty much have what I see in here as The pull out, the pulling, the coast and the lean all sorted out along with my body position to actually make that work ;)

 

Next question, given I am on a V-drive would it be better to come in closer to the boat by taking off more rope and can I practice doing this at a slower speed 27-28 mph until I get it working then go up to 30-31?

 

Thanks for your help, I will be hitting it up tomorrow even though its calling for rain, though convincing someone to drive in the rain may be more of a challenge ;)

[smokevw]

Well I just lost about 15 minutes of writing. I have to say this website seems to have some issues.

[Chris Rossi]

@smokevw my suggestion would be to find one source of information that resonates with you and follow it for as long as you are progressing. You can easily get lost in too much information or differing theories and regress. @TFIN and I do a podcast called SprayMakers and we lay out our beliefs regarding techniques and theories of slalom waterskiing. Both of us are also involved in an online coaching app called GiveGo where you submit a video and we give you our coaching thoughts. Many skiers are now using this with great success. Good luck and welcome to the community!

[Than_Bogan]

My new suggestion is: Do whatever Chris Rossi says. (Seriously.)

[smokevw]

@Chris Rossi

I had a quite in depth response written up with a few questions but after losing it because I cant type more than a few lines on this site for some reason I gave up for a bit. Ill try on my phone later maybe that will work.

Gordon Rathbun drills. I did go through all these last night and I think they make sense.

 

Throwing SprayMakers onto spotify now, are there and I will look for some starter items or items that seem they would be of benefit.

[ReallyGottaSki]

Big fan of Rathbun's work. Seems most current instruction i hear has deep roots from his drills.

Drill 1 is keystone, really spend a lot of time on your stance, it will pay dividends

 

and yeah ears open and partake in what CR is offering

[smokevw]

@"Keith Menard"

 

"if you can carve that wake as it appears high and hard, but even if it is, you still need to hit it with more angle. Look up 'pull out drills' and try that for a bit. If you ARE going to cross the wake...stop pulling once you cross it...the reason you are getting slack is because you are pulling all the way to your turn."

 

So I watched all the Gordon Rathbun videos and loving the intro music ;)

 

When you say stop pulling once you cross it, it seems like at 1:21 he actually stops pulling just prior to crossing it. Just before crossing he seems to slightly come up (he says that crossing body position is in drill 6) and you can see he stays more in position there, but for me not going to go all out initially I take it stopping that pull just before the wake will help?

 

 

 

 

@Jerry44 great video, I look forward to trying this out it seems like my boats wake will be a lot less at 28. I actually ran at 28 off the other day and it felt way different but the wake was also way smaller.

 

I think first I need to focus on body position and keeping my weight more balanced through those various drills. With the weight is it supposed to be balanced through the entire turns? IE always balanced not putting more weight on the back leg?

 

Second questions is what boat speed and length to do these drills on?

 

Should I be slowing down to 28 for these drills at 15' off and then once I feel like I have the drills try to keep the rope taught like in the video from Jerry and drop to 28' since the wake will be drastically smaller off the V-drive (2001 VLX Malibu)?

 

Thanks guys tomorrow I will be riding rain or shine as it is the last weekend for the boat at the lake ;). Hopefully not rain as it will be harder to convince my friend to drive haha

[Moffattra]

Holy crap! Where is that lake?? Gorgeous!

 

And btw, love the stoke and curiosity, but you are SO screwed! ?

[OREGON85]

I’m in almost the exact situation. I’m really looking for to seeing the packet of information for new skiers.

[jhughes]

It's going to be much more about your approach to improving at what is a very difficult and counterintuitive sport over time vs. "tips and tricks". Lots of folks, myself included, have wasted a lot of time just bouncing around from tip to tip, coach to coach, and shiny object to shiny object which equates to pissing in the wind and getting nowhere over time. A consistent framework of what you're going to try to do and why, with a consistent feedback loop going to help you get where you want to go. Assuming, as well, you know where you want to go.

[ALPJr]

Check out Train With Terry Winter.

[Jerry44]

@smokevw

Yes I would shorten the rope to 28 off where the wake is smaller and the boat speed probably at 28 or 30, depending on your ski.

 

I think the main objective is to keep your shoulders back just like he's doing in the drill and keeping your ski on edge THROUGH the wakes. I think your weight should be fairly balanced from front to back all the way through the drill.

[escmanaze]

@Than_Bogan I do have a packet all ready that could possibly be useful, but I don't think the OP here represents the target market. My target market with it was guys who have been skiing for at least several years, and thing they have gotten pretty good, and then the course kicks their butt a few times and at some point they have that ah-ha moment where they realize that getting through the course at slow speeds and long line has a lot to do with how fast they can get across those wakes and only a little bit to do with how big the spray is on their turn. So it's mostly all about stacked position so they can get better at that, and thereby get better at getting across faster and faster.

 

I believe the OP here would be better served by more basic level stuff currently.

 

@smokevw Welcome to the club!!!! We are glad to have you and look forward to many years of sharing our addiction together.

[Than_Bogan]

@escmanaze I think I disagree. True, he's not quite at what I called "Stage 3" which I targeted my article for, but I think he's sufficiently interested in understanding where he's going that he'd at least enjoy it, and possibly learn from it. So hopefully you won't be too annoyed that I'm going to link in your short paper of recommended resources:

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QuS3JTBfb1-EiCQ4mchHt3qehtBc8lZv29JjPHzw21g

[jeblanc]

For the longest time I wasted a lot of energy trying to use my back leg to push when I turned, thinking it was necessary to get a sharper turn. A skiing partner told me to think of my legs as "jello." Just be in the right position, obviously easier said than done, and let the ski do the work. "The ski wants to turn" were his exact words. He also really drilled into me that I need to keep my hands low at my hips and outstretched when I come out of my turn. Those two pieces of advice did the most for improving my course skiing, and just my skiing in general. It kept my rope tighter and got me across the wake a lot faster. Good luck.

[escmanaze]

@Than_Bogan no problem at all. It is there and public for any link any time. You might very well be right that there could still be some great learning opportunities in there for him.

[smokevw]

Well after a great weekend and getting out Friday right when we got to the lake along with another 3 times in a day on Saturday I have to say I think watching those drills defiantly helped. I found a major change trying to focus on keeping my weight more even vs putting a lot of my pressure into the back leg. I also noticed a huge difference trying to keep the rope down at my hips arms tucked into my sides. I think also doing the smaller turns as shown in the video from Jerry helped. Though in that video they show focus on leaving your arms out and straight and just trying to stay on edge through the turns.

 

I think for sure 15' off the wake is quite large to try to cross on edge I tried a few times and found I was somewhat bouncing through it trying to control with bending my knees more. I think next time I will try that drill at 28' off as listed in that video.

 

All in all I do enjoy knowing what I should do and trying to go out each time trying to focus on something to improve on. It is the same way I focus on learning new tricks on kitesurfing, watch, learn, think and try to execute over and over until you get it :)

 

Best part of the weekend was that that it was not very good weather with 0 boats on the lake so I got the most glass flat water to ever ski on in my life up there :smile:

[ReallyGottaSki]

Indeed. Don't write checks with your turn your cut can't cash, metaphorically speaking.

[jpattigr]

@smokevw Where are you located? Looks like BC and if it is there aere lots of great places to get some coaching and continue to a great ski life! Let us know where and maybe we can suggest someone to help out.

[smokevw]

@jpattigr that is Sproat Lake. I live in Victoria, BC. I think Shawnigan Lake has a ski school. I know Sproat Lake has a ski club but I need to get around to finding out more details on them.

 

I saw they had a course setup there and I know they used to do a lot of competitions when we were younger but more around wake boarding but then I haven't seen much lately. Due to covid I didn't just want to rock up on the dock and start looking around for people to chat to.

 

I'm sure I can even possibly post up on here and try to find someone to go skiing with up at Shawnigan as it is only 45 minutes from Victoria. I keep my boat at Sproat, but plan to try to do Shawnigan for May/June next year then Sproat July to Sept.

 

Update:

I reached out to the Sproat Lake Watersports Association and Victoria Aqua Ski Club (Shawnigan Lake)

[jpattigr]

@smokevw That area looks amazing and has hosted ski tournaments in the last few years. Also, FM (https://fluidmotionsports.com/) is based on that lake and the owner is a die hard skier. My gut says, track this guy down and he will give you lots of info on getting ski help on your lake! At that ski club I have even seen a ski jump in the pics, most be some good skiers in your area. Best of Luck!