Is whisper fin better on every ski

[Mose]

Is the whisper fin an improvement on all water skis on the market or just older one's

 

[Mose]

[Wish]

What gave you the impression the fin may only improve older skis? Elizabeth M is on the latest Goode and she’s been said to use one and she’s been make podium placements in pro events.

[Kroeks]

I believe it was primarily tested on new skis. I certainly liked what it did to my 2018 Vapor!

[Ed_Johnson]

I have had one on my last 4 skis and LOVE it !!!

PS: They were all new skis.

 

 

[aupatking]

I’m working on it on the new R2. Some things feel extremely promising, some not so much. Jury’s still out. I’m running lower ball averages right now, but I’m feeling some crazy good onside connection. Offside is not as good as stock fin but not stock settings

[Mose]

I thought new skis would have the best possible fins to begin with that's why I asked

[Zman]

I've heard it even works on this.

 

[schafer]

I have one of the thick ones for sale over on Ski it Again. Selling it for a ski partner that the fin didn’t suit. https://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?endless=summer&topic=Search&category=Parts_SkiBoard&postid=61021

[BraceMaker]

@Mose the vast majority of skis come with nearly identical fins. If you buy a new tournament ski from Goode or D3 or HO or Radar or most of the other brands they will have fins that are the same generic form and shape.

 

Most of the professional skiers ride what is essentially that same generic aluminum fin.

 

The Whisper fin is its own thing, Denali has some different fins they have engineered and sold, Steve Schnitzer made a number of different fin designs in the past.

 

The owner of this forum made fins of carbon fiber with different flexes.

 

But in the world of waterskis the fins are generally not engineered or optimized to a ski.

 

If the whisper fin is or isnt an engineering marvel or game changer for sport.. well the verdict isnt out. Certainly the majority of the best skiers land up on the podium with generic shaped aluminum fins. I would suspect that if a fin generated a full 1 ball improvement for everyone who used it absolutely everone would be riding it. I do believe that some of the ideas of assymmetry would make sense.

[KRoundy]

I love mine on my 2020 Senate!

[Stevie Boy]

Are the Pro's sticking with the Standard Fin, because they prefer it or because of sponsorship, for me the jury is out, but I am curious, so I have dropped the $300 to find out, people I have spoken to, either love it or can't get on with it, several of them, ex pro skiers like it, but can't put their finger on exactly what it does for them.

[BraceMaker]

@Stevie Boy I believe it was discussed in a spraymakers podcast.

 

I dont think there is a sponsorship issue in running a different fin. Its not like Radar is selling you a brand new vapor BW/O fin. You're paying for a fin and fin box with every brand new ski you buy regardless.

 

I just suspect that at the very top of the sport the difference is mnimized to the point that if it doesn't produce a specific increase in average its not worth the work around.

 

As everyone in this sport has seen most any of the pros could hop on your ski from 2010 with a pair of wileys rubber boots and get through 38 first crack at whatever binding and boot setting you have.

 

So they arent really the market for additional stuff.

 

I would be very curious to see a blind trial where someone sets up your ski for you including binding locations and installs a fin. You ski it and they tweak it but you are not allowed to peek or told what fin or measurements were being used. Then track scores and get honest feedback.

 

Another place we've all been. Ever miss read your caliper set your fin way off, or didnt tighten the clamp well and then have an incredible set. That dft increase really let the ski come around better. Then on the bench later your fin is .03 back from where you thought you had it?

 

I don't think anyone has really seriously done the experiment.

 

[Horton]

@BraceMaker If you are saying that ski set up methodology is part black magic I agree. If you are saying that it is a lot of placebo effect I strongly disagree. How critical it is depends on your skiing level and the ski you are on.

 

As for the Whisper fin - it is safe to assume the the majority of the the best skiers in the world have tried it or have watched someone use it. They are all looking for any advantage and would use any means to get an additional 1/4 ball. No one has contract the prevents then from running an after market fin. One or two of the elite women used it in competition in 2020.

[BraceMaker]

@Horton I do not think I mean placebo at least not some sort of lasting placebo effect. But if we're talking about other sports you usually have some sort of coach and technical staff who make the adjustments based on what they are observing then they verify the adjustments were beneficial. Think changing the base edge angle on a downhill ski or the waxing of a cross country ski. If you make the right change the athlete performs better and the athlete trusts the technical and coaching staff to observe, take feedback from the athlete and interpret it all into a plan for the conditions and the training of the athlete.

 

When you make a change to your gear you also make a change to how you work on the gear. Maybe I agree with part black magic but more so I think there can be a short honeymoon period to nearly any change and specifically to the correct change.

 

Incorrect changes can feel good for a short period of time such as moving a binding forwards because you are too far back on the ski but that has no lasting benefit as the skier can now load it more in a turn with out the tail blowing out. This skier might have a better long term outcome moving the bindings too far back so that a posturally poor position on the ski is punishing.

 

So the thesis statement of this is - if fix X is better than fin Y in any actually meaningful way then it should be able to be installed onto a ski with out the skier's being aware of it and generate a positive average change in their ski performance. Basically if you walked up to the start dock stuck in your binder and hopped in the water then ran your passes left your ski with the boat crew and show up again tomorrow and repeat. Track that and have some third party track passes and scores. You should see a trend if there is a real value to the product.

 

 

[scoke]

Hi Bracemaker,

 

You've got an interesting perspective and a fresh take on things.

For context, what line length and speed do you start at and PB? What about tournament PB?

 

Thanks.

 

@BraceMaker

[Horton]

@BraceMaker Yes scientific method would be great but it is totally impractical. Instead of scientific method we are left with informed decisions. I would suggest that the higher the level the skier the better they are to assess the feel of their equipment.

[Keith_Menard]

I still want to see the new @Horton test series...

 

Horton skies blindfolded to prove scientifically the best ski and fin.