Leroy Burnett history . . what rope length increments after 36 off back in the 60's

[swbca]

A Burnett family member had a thread yesterday trying to find some photos or videos of Leroy Burnett. According to his Nephew, Leroy passed away while on a ski trip in Tahoe in 2014. A few years prior their house burned down destroyed all their media and memorabilia.

 

Welcome fact checks - this is all from memory

 

I recorded a super8 video of Leroy Burnett at the 1966 Nationals in Miami. He was in the BOYS division and was possibly the world's top slalom skier in August 1966. (Men's world record holder and Masters Champion)

 

Everyone was standing on the Shoreline when Leroy skied.

 

6 @ 30 off

6 @ 36 off

2 @ what was next after 36 off? was it 39 off or 42 off ? - I have never been able to find any reference info on the old rope lengths.

 

@AustinGraham If that super8 can be restored to digital I will post it here . . It will take a couple of weeks because I am not at home and I will have to send it somewhere to be digitized.

 

Better yet, there must be some video of the Masters event . . where would that be ?

 

From an Obrien Poster

[Cooper_Trelawney]

I'll say this, slalom skiers had big balls to contend with in the 60s!

[Broussard]

Man, if only Ed Brazil was still with us. :(

I believe he made a post or two about the old line lengths somewhere on this forum.

[Jody_Seal]

Ham Wallace where are you?? that guy knows everything about competition in the 60's

[AustinGraham]

Please just let me know ! If it can that would be absolutely amazing :) I do appreciate it greatly.

[gsm_peter]

Fwiw

Speed table from Sweden 1961.

Did not find line lenghts in this book.

 

 

[gsm_peter]

The oldest skier in our club had some type of result of 54km, 17 m around 1969.

I will try to ask him.

[swbca]

I found the discussion with Ed Brazil on old rope lengths where he discusses 42off. From his comments it sounds like 42off was the next increment after 36off.

Rope loops "off" 12, 18, 24, 30, 36, 42off

 

2 at 42off @36mph is a good slalom run for a BOYS division skier on a wood ski in 1966. If that's accurate it's no wonder he set a new Worlds Men's slalom record and also won the Mens Masters title in 1966.

[Width variables >> the slalom course was 5.5" Narrower in 1966 but the balls were bigger making it about the same]

 

So unofficially Leroy Burnett ran 2 at 42off @36mph in the Boys division at the 1966 Nationals in Miami. If my Super8 film will still play, I will be able to confirm.

[pc]

Leroy was an amazing skier, look at his Obrien in the turn. I had the good fortune to ski with him a couple of times near his house in the Delta. His dad Ted was one of the best when it came to setting up twin rigs.

[gsm_peter]

In sweden mid 60ths.

57 kmh, 23 m, 19 m, 17 m, 15 m, 13 m

 

[AustinGraham]

@pc thats awesome;) I grew up in that house on bethal island right on the levee. It was a dream for a kid growing up. Your own boat dock to fish off of and going out everyday with lee fishing and having fun. I really miss that place.

[pc]

Soon after Leroy began competing he placed third in Boys Slalom at the 1965 Nationals in Minneapolis behind Don Ennius Jr. and Kenny Dabbs, and ahead of Mike Suyderhoud, Gerald Winnard, and Frankie Dees. At the 1966 Masters he took the slalom title against the likes of World Champion Rolland Hillier, Dennis Rahlves, Joker Osborn, Joe Cash, Larry Penacho, and Mike Osborn. He won men’s slalom with steadily improving runs of 37 1/2, 38 1/2, and 39 1/2 buoys (those after 36 scored with 24 feet off the line at the maximum 36 MPH). His fellow Californian, Dennis Rahlves, placed second. Incidentally, Dennis, a former world record holder in Mens jumping, is the father of Olympic snow ski racer Darren Rahlves.

 

The two end gates in the slalom course were shortened 15 yards closer to the first and sixth buoys which was roughly the same placement adopted by the WWSU for the 1967 Worlds to be held later that summer in Sherbrooke, Quebec. In addition, in an effort to hurry the tournament up, each skier started out with 12 points credit and starting speeds were advanced to 34 MPH and 30 MPH for women. The each skier continued his run until a buoy was missed.

 

At the Miami Nationals in 1966 Burnett, skiing in the Boys slalom event, proved that his recent Masters win was no fluke by running 50 buoys for the national title, the last two with 36 feet off the line. By comparison, the mens slalom winner, Tom Decker, also of California, scored 41. Coming in second behind Leroy was Ennius Jr, with 40, Suyderhoud with 39, and Bruce Martin (the 1969 Mens slalom champ) and Johnny Blackburn, both with 39. I’m guessing that Suyderhoud must have gotten 3rd with consecutive plus additional buoys which was the rule then.

 

The top five Mens slalom finishers were Decker, Chuck Stearns, Dennis Rahlves, Jim McCormick, and Paul Merrill and Larry Penacho who tied for fifth.

 

The line shortening lengths at that time were 12’ off, 18’, 24’,30’, and 36’ off. I believe that 33’ off came at a later date but am not sure.

 

All of this information came from articles in August -September 1966 and October-November 1966 issues of The Water Skier magazine. Some of this information are quotes from the articles with my editing.

[swbca]

@pc What division was Kris Lapoint in at the 65 Nationals. I thought he won Boys. He had a big score as everyone was expecting.

 

I guess I was a few years off on performance levels when describing Burnett's standing ovation performance in the 1966 Nationals. Looking back on that day I incorrectly figured his last full pass must have been 36 off.

[swbca]

@AustinGraham I found a large film reel of ski tournament movies that were spliced together. I have no equipment to preview the content. I sent the reel to a conversion company to create a digital copy is possible. Will let you know.

[pc]

Kris skied in his first nationals in 1965 and established himself as one of the best with a win in the Jr Boys slalom event with a score of 51 buoys plus 1 additional. Second place finisher Donald Krueger also had 51 but with only 1 additional. In 3rd was Ricky McCormick with 46, Mike Graser in 4th, and Bob LaPoint in 5th. As for me in my second nationals, I was back in the pack with 29 plus 5 additional.

[swbca]

@pc Its cool you have your WaterSkier magazines going way back! Kris Lapoint's presence at the 65 Nationals was one of the central interest points. He was was tall and strong. I remember that he won his slalom event, but standing around with a crowd of spectators and skiers asking him questions he didn't look like a Jr Boy.

 

Do they show the men's slalom scores past the top 5 . . I think I ran 2 at 24 off but don't remember the placement. I remember my ski being torn off when I hit the Twin-Rig wake after the 2 ball. Steve Bruce

 

ONE SECOND LATER I WAS OUT THE FRONT - Minneapolis Star/Tribune featured a local skier

 

[Horton]

By 1968 the balls in the US were still in feet and inches but we're extremely close to the metric dimensions that we have today. The oldest official international world records are dated 1973.

 

I have a vague recollection of hearing about the changes in rope lengths I have no idea when it transferred to the current standard.

 

I am perplexed by mentions of runs into 38 & 39 off in the posts above. In 1973 ROBBY ZUCCHI set the world record at 2.00 @ 12.00/58 ( 35 off / 36 mph )

[swbca]

@Horton I don't think 38off is mentioned above. 39 off is mentioned as a question trying to remember if the old rope lengths progressed from 36off to 39off or it went from 36off to 42off. Rope lengths down to 36off are well documented and 42off has been mentioned by Ed Brazil, but I wasn't sure if there was something in-between such as 39off. Still haven't learned what followed 36off.

 

I think the change-over in the USA was around 1972

[AustinGraham]

@swbca sweet. Thanks so much for keeping me updated.

[Horton]

 

[B_S]

That looks like total bouy count, not feet off.

[swbca]

@Horton Buoy count and rope lengths are two different things.

[Horton]

ooooo

[Cooper_Trelawney]

Not to hijack the thread but it is great seeing Don Ennis' name getting some recognition. He still lives on Lake McQueeney and runs a ski camp called Ski Masters. I hang out with him every so often and it's great to hear stories about skiing with Joe Cash, Joker Osborn, etc. There were some real characters in the sport then. Still are today.

[BicoastalSkier]

Wow, this is a flash from the past. I grew up skiing on The Delta back in the 1950’s and 60’s. Leroy worked occasionally at Frank’s Fishing Resort on Bethel Island, where my folks launched our boat every weekend during the ski season. There were a few times we met up with Leroy on the water and would head over to Diablo Waterski Club to watch him practice. It was quite a thrill as a kid to watch him ski - and I wasn’t a whole lot younger than Leroy…!!! Love it when old stuff like this comes up on BOS…!!!

[Rich]

I skied with Leroy Burnett in 1972-1976. His training partner at that time was Rich Pato We were all members of Diablo water ski club. I believe the slalom course changed between the 72-73 season. It went from american feet to metric. The course was shorter overall in the metric system. We changed the course at the start of the 73 season. I remember as I helped with the change work party. I did ski an american longer course after the metric as some on the delta were still the american course. It was easier as you had more space a 1 and 6 as the overall length was longer. Leroy was at the top of the sport in 1966 where I believe he was the first to run 30 off and score 2 @ 36 off at 36mph. I dont think there was a shortening after 36 off. Leroy won both masters & national titles in 1966 and set the record at 2@36 off Leroy did not ski from 67-71 as he was in vietnam. In Leroys absence Kris lapoint became the new slalom champion. When Leroy came back he was not 165 lbs. more like a solid 180lbs. He also had to change skis and developed the Obrien comp USA. He worked for herb Obien in building the fiberglass ski. He was a great practice skier but he lost the confidence he had in 1966. I saw him run 35 many times and deep 38 in the delta. Actually running 38 a couple times. Which was an incredible feat He did run 35 in competion I believe becoming the 3rd or 4th person to do so. Leroy was a true innovator with fiberglass skis. He never returned to the top form he had in 1966 and retired from competition in 75-76 If he had never gone to vietnam I think the battles between Leroy & the Lapoint brothers, Mike Suyderhoud would have been epic. I was lucky to ski with Leroy, Rich Pato & the Morrison brothers in the early 70’s. I learned alot about skiing from Leroy. He was a great guy and a great skier who for 1 year was the best skier in the world but his time was cut short by a war.

[AustinGraham]

@BicoastalSkier thats pretty cool. Yeah they lived on bethal island until their house burned down in the middle of the night. Around 2009 maybe? I sure do miss those days. We lived right down the street in a mobile home park on bethal island sandy (lees wife) and lee lived only 2 minutes away. I go back to bethal island every once in a while and just walk up the levee where the house used to be. It’s still an open plot of land to this day. Brings back a lot of memories from my childhood. I still have so many questions I wish I could ask him. But never will get the chance. I do appreciate everyone’s feedback and help on this topic. It’s one that’s very close and dear to me. Leroy was basically my second father.

[AustinGraham]

I actually have some pictures I’ll post tomorrow. From when I was maybe 12 or so with Leroy. I’m only 24 now but I’ll post some pictures of him later in his life. It’ll take me on a little trip down memory lane too.

[AustinGraham]

@Rich i was just now seeing this. That’s some nice words and I truly appreciate it. We still are in contact with the Morrisons we see each others family ever so often. Man. I guess I just wish I had more time with him. But In the end don’t we all wish that.