Baller dchristman Posted September 12, 2022 Baller Share Posted September 12, 2022 Interesting, but it strikes me as a little scary depending on the two inserts to retain the release. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Hucklefin Posted September 12, 2022 Baller Share Posted September 12, 2022 That was my first thought, also that the boot is gonna wreck the top of the ski. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller TomH Posted September 12, 2022 Baller Share Posted September 12, 2022 Also looks to need or be using an extra pair of inserts on the toe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mmosley899 Posted September 12, 2022 Baller Share Posted September 12, 2022 @TomH yep, using an extra set of inserts. D3 already adds those to their skis, and Denali has also done it on request. I wish all the ski manufacturers would add them since the MOB system uses them also. Mike's Overall Binding USA Water Ski Senior Judge Senior Driver Senior Tech Controller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BraceMaker Posted September 12, 2022 Baller Share Posted September 12, 2022 @TomH you could easily add a protective film like that clear 3M stuff that is used to keep people breaking your garage windows. Lay on ski then pop the holes and screw down the hardware.I do wonder about the rear hoop being restrained by the 2 screws as well. In theory that size stainless hardware should hold ~800 lb tensile each. So I'm not as worried about the hardware as that its extremely common to have loose screws which could make for a real display. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jnan66 Posted September 12, 2022 Baller Share Posted September 12, 2022 Why take the plate away when it has worked for two decades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bko Posted September 12, 2022 Baller Share Posted September 12, 2022 The absence of a binding plate changes the flex pattern of a slalom ski - for better or for worse?Since the bending of a ski might increase without the plate, the pressure on the release system will also be higher to some extent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Hucklefin Posted September 12, 2022 Baller Share Posted September 12, 2022 @bko I think another point that goes along with what you said here is that Reflex is proposing this design as if the skis are designed to flex and perform optimally without a binding. I don't see how this could be the case when every binding currently available uses a plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bko Posted September 12, 2022 Baller Share Posted September 12, 2022 @Hucklefin Yes, I also believe that up to now all skis are being designed, tested and fine-tuned WITH a plate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skialex Posted September 12, 2022 Baller Share Posted September 12, 2022 I would prefer to see a bottomless boot on a plate… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bko Posted September 12, 2022 Baller Share Posted September 12, 2022 @skialex Baseless is what I expected when I started watching the promo video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller dchristman Posted September 12, 2022 Author Baller Share Posted September 12, 2022 Mikro-just would not be viable with this setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller C5Quest Posted September 12, 2022 Baller Share Posted September 12, 2022 If nothing else the music on the video gets you amped up to ski.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted September 13, 2022 Administrators Share Posted September 13, 2022 @dchristman Mikro-Just is the most important water ski development since the carbonfin :-) Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jnan66 Posted September 13, 2022 Baller Share Posted September 13, 2022 Keep the plate as it is. Make the boot with a completely flat bottom. Maybe change the nylon screws to something else that holds it in place sideways. New design looks silly. Old design looks classy :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skibug Posted September 13, 2022 Baller Share Posted September 13, 2022 I think I may have questioned or commented on a previous version of this....but....they boast that this design in more "hydrodynamic" which baffles me.. For hydrodynamics to even matter, someone would have to be using the binding on the wrong side of the ski. Either that or they are never going more that 5 - 6 MPH. Or maybe that is a benefit for when you are going out the front?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Broussard Posted September 13, 2022 Baller Share Posted September 13, 2022 @skibug As the ski rolls onto edge hydrodynamics are certainly a factor. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BraceMaker Posted September 13, 2022 Baller Share Posted September 13, 2022 @skibug I think the instinct is that the water doesn't hit the boots. And how much it does or doesn't or if that water is spray not laminar flow does it create much drag? Would be good questions to ask. Clearly spray leg would be drag right? But does water get off the clean edge of the top of the ski and get to the front horseshoe? I personally think its more the cuff of the boot that gets impacted and particularly the rear boot... which I don't see a way to have a DC rear unless the rear boot is mounted under the front horseshoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MattP Posted September 13, 2022 Baller Share Posted September 13, 2022 As Reflex continues to license out their release to multiple boot brands they will need to continue development to stay relevant in the boot market. Once the go to and gold standard is hard to maintain whiteout innovation. I would have preferred to see actual boot mold development with a flat bottom and flat inside. That should be the next step they skipped over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skibug Posted September 13, 2022 Baller Share Posted September 13, 2022 @BraceMaker @Broussard at NO time does the toe of the front boot even come close to contacting or displacing water. The advertising would lead you to believe they are staking their claim on hydrodynamics being associated with the front toe. Excuse me, my degree is in Physics, so....maybe I am being nit picky....but probably not!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skialex Posted September 13, 2022 Baller Share Posted September 13, 2022 I believe it is time to make a boot ski specific and stop using cheep inline skate shells. Reflex is the leader and by licensing their release, most of hardshell market is theirs or related to them.It’s costly I know, it’s what Radar did and their boot is a big step forward. I would welcome a flat bottom shell with low and soft cuff like radar’s. That boot would sell to almost all reflex customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skialex Posted September 13, 2022 Baller Share Posted September 13, 2022 @dchristman you can use 2 mikrojusts, one at front part and one at the rear… ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller dchristman Posted September 13, 2022 Author Baller Share Posted September 13, 2022 @skialex I know you're kidding, but that would be a terrible idea. I think it's already bad enough depending on the ski inserts to retain the release components. Now you want to slot out the holes on the pieces with the release components attached and weaken them? You also would need to keep front and back "synchronized"... just a bad idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skialex Posted September 13, 2022 Baller Share Posted September 13, 2022 @dchristman yes and yes, totally agree, hence the laugh…! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller chris55 Posted September 13, 2022 Baller Share Posted September 13, 2022 @skialex Question regarding boots, Syndicate hardshell and Edge does not have a flat bottom boot already ? I am asking bcause I never saw one in real Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skialex Posted September 13, 2022 Baller Share Posted September 13, 2022 @chris55 the base that the are using for the the shell to sit in, makes them sit flat on the plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller chrislandy Posted September 14, 2022 Baller Share Posted September 14, 2022 I'd be more worried about the binding release pressure changing and getting pre-release as the ski flexes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mmosley899 Posted September 15, 2022 Baller Share Posted September 15, 2022 @skialex @MattP A flat bottom shell would be a great improvement, but we know it is very expensive to build the molds. Reflex does not make their own boots and cannot dictate specific shapes without their own molds. Radar took a BIG risk and invested the $ necessary to develop exactly the product I would have chosen. In fact when Brooks showed me the first samples, I told him they had done pretty much everything I would have liked to do. I have been using the new Radar boot since January and recommend it highly. Of course not everyone will like any single product. The Syndicate boot is not at all flat without the accompanying base support. Mike's Overall Binding USA Water Ski Senior Judge Senior Driver Senior Tech Controller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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