Lean angle stand

[Adam Caldwell]

@teammalibu  Bad ass setup!  ....Id look to open those feet up a bit.  Maybe aim your knees and toes towards that furring strip.  You want to be able to close that gap between your right hip and right hand as much as possible, while being able to continue a lean laterally beyond the imaginary edge of the ski. All your teaching yourself from that photo is how to hang on while being completely separated.

[teammalibu]

@adamhcaldwellthanks I will work on it, do you think I should lower the bottom pulley a bit?

[Adam Caldwell]

@teammalibu

In my mind, while the anchor point you have makes sense, what I think is more realistic is using a lower anchor point to create compressive forces on the body that are more realistic with what you’ll experience on the water. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by adamhcaldwell

[dchristman]

@adamhcaldwellWouldn't lowering the anchor point essentially be the same thing as "leaning harder"?  It would seem to me that the elastic bands provide the compressive forces you are looking for with the anchor point at a more realistic pylon height... no?

[Adam Caldwell]

Why not go further and just hang it from the ceiling…. how much compressive load would you have then?

Edited February 2, 2023 by adamhcaldwell

[dchristman]

Less if your standing in the same place, but that doesn't answer my question.

[BraceMaker]

@adamhcaldwell like cable park skiing!

The technical spec is a bit weird 25.5 to 47.25 above a static waterline.

"c. Towing Pylon: Boats shall be equipped with a towing pylon on the centerline of the boat, located between the transom and near midship, which shall be a minimum of 65 cm. (25 1/2") and a maximum of 1.2m. (47 1/4") above the water when the boat is standing still with no occupants aboard."

So a boat on plane that level is certainly higher maybe 10" wonder what the effective on plane height is depending on boat speed and load.  

And then of course the longer the rope the more play you'd have vertically with less feedback from the boat right?

 

 

[Adam Caldwell]

 

@BraceMaker - I remember when MC came out with the first Illmore engines with massive boat covers and super tall pylons...It definitely felt a little harder to stay down in a pull against a higher connection point!

@dchristman The ski under us when on the water is producing massive drag and lift forces.  Couple that with your body leaned at 45deg with centrifugal force (pull) from the boat and you can use some trig to roughly resolve the direct compressive forces would be acting in the bodys CL axis between the shoulders and the feet.   

When we are discussing a "static land jig" to mimic a slalom pull under load, the higher the connection point is, the LESS compressive forces you will feel acting vertically through your body.   Conversely the lower the connection point, the greater those compressive forces will become.  To me, 90% of the reason for doing a lean drill is to help figure out how to stand in such a way as to resist getting 'crushed' while in the pull.  If there are inadequate compressive forces, the drill is practically useless.

Now if you want a static land drill setup to mimic more closely to what's going on while skiing (still a far stretch from reality), then my recommendation is to use a lower anchor point, and stand with your body in the right position such that you are working against more then just gravity to be able to stand up tall and get into a solid position. 

I suppose another option is to use a pylon height type of connection point, but put a 450lbs into a sack and put it onto your shoulders while doing said lean drill.

  The biggest single gain I made in this sport was after I became aware of what part of the system is really responsible for putting that crushing load against our body during the lean, and it is not just the boat. 

Below are REAL figures of line tension skiers at shortline deal with as the line comes tight. Not saying this is ideal...but its just something to provide perspective.  If you consider every action has an equal and opposite reaction, you can do some very general and simple math to get a ball park on the compressive forces acting vertically through the body. 

A lean drill should teach you more then how to hold onto a rope tied to a wall. It should teach you how to manage compressive forces your body is dealing during the pull, while simultaneously controlling your body position with respect to the ski and with respect to the anchor point. 

If you have good body position, you can handle massive loads and barely feel them. Conversely, if your body position is poor, it takes very little load to further compromise your position.   This goes back to the perceived versus actual loads conversation from a few years ago.

Still think some bungee is going to get the job done?  

Edited February 3, 2023 by adamhcaldwell

[DW]

Mens #1 skier not on the list, Mens 'most entertaining' skier #1 on the list, I guess as in NASCAR we come to watch the crashes:-) 🤣

Keep up the pics of the practice rigs.  I hang mine off my workout machine about 16" (knee height) off the floor.

[BraceMaker]

@adamhcaldwellwhat you're describing as compressive load I think if you describe it as a force vector makes more sense.  There is a tension vector on the line and what we would call a ground reaction force coming from the ground.  Simply when you push down on the ground the ground pushes back.  When those two vectors approximate each other you have compressive load.  When those two vectors arne't aligned then only a component of the forces are compressive so as the pull point is lowered (or as the ground reaction force gets closer to the tension force) then the component of the force which compresses you goes up and the component of the force that separates your arms from the body goes down.

 

That seem about where you're going?

 

[Adam Caldwell]

Im going skiing.

 

 

 

 

 

[swbca]

On 1/29/2023 at 6:00 PM, lpskier said:

I practice trick skiing on a lazy Susan. 

I think you were kidding about the Lazy Susan.  Steve Nelson who won the 2022 World Trick title in M9 more than doubling the score of 2nd place, built something like a lazy-susan in his basement.  In addition to rotating it moves fore and aft to give some front/back movement for practicing toe tricks.  Living in Minnesota he has several months with no actual skiing.  He has this a few other training tools specific for trick practice.     

[Wish]

This one rotates. 

[Adam Caldwell]

Hell YEAH. There ya go. Bad ass!  Now throw a 600lb weight on the end of that rope and rep it!

[Horton]

@wish your feet are way too far apart, you are using trick grip and your pants are going to catch water.

[Wish]

@Horton …..not mine. But agree on feet, hands and pants. 😂   ..Can u figure out how this guy got into the boots and into ski position? 

[skialex]

Some good ideas… just don’t get hurt while trying 

[Horton]

@wish makes my brain hurt

[teammalibu]

@Wish that is my next revision I was planning on!

@AdamCaldwell I tried your suggestion about aiming my feet and it was much easier to close the gap between my hip and handle, thanks

[teammalibu]

I was thinking both rotation of direction like the pic and roll angle of the ski! 

@Hortonmore pain for your brain! What else should an old retired guy waste his time on?

Edited February 3, 2023 by teammalibu

[Adam Caldwell]

@teammalibu Very good!  - keeping that gap closed as much as possible into CL and beyond the white water is more important then trying to force additional ski angle through the back of the boat. 

You might end up feeling slightly slower through center, but with a better connection to the swing after centerline(hand-hip gap is smaller) can ultimately take you to a wider point in the course - (versus going 100mph at CL, but on an unsustainable near 90deg path but with no (or degrading connection) leaving the second whitewater.)

I believe a lean drill like this should be a tool/mechanism/practice to help promote situational awareness to help set you up for the ideal body position and trajectory AFTER crossing CL.  Not just for creating huge load and resistance against the boat on the way to center.

I don't care what level of skier you are... this is a critical element to running easier passes with less effort.  PROVIDED you have set the timing up prior to the gate shot to allow for this to happen!  

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by adamhcaldwell

[Jaypro]

Sorry @Horton, I created a monster with this post!  It is -17 with a wind chill of -40 here in Vermont today, gotta kill time somehow!  Winters are long, John!!

[A_B]

@adamcaldwell - "light on the line" slalom skiing debunked!  LOL 

The best slalom skiers in t world should be light on the line if it was at all a possible theory.   I always tried to pull the pylon out of the boat.

Handle control to me means grabbing the handle and aligning your body is such a way to handle more load,   Practice leaning on dry land is a way to figure out how to align your body in the "sweet" spot to handle it on the water.. 

[MDB1056]

Thread is getting better and better