DefectiveDave

@rodltg2,

 

Congratulations on the new bike! Find a good motorcycle safety course and be careful on the road. The scariest things on the road are other drivers, they seem to forget that motorcycles exist (and they do so very often).

 

I road for years, but gave up my motorcycle this year. I just had one too many close calls. The last one came when a mom in a minivan pulled out of a parking lot directly in front of me as I was going about 45mph. I managed to avoid her, but my shoulder clipped her sideview mirror as I swerved into the oncoming traffic lane. She didn't even know I was there until I hit the mirror. I was just lucky there was no oncoming traffic and I wasn't injured by the impact.

 

Riding is great fun and I would never discourage anyone from enjoying it, but watch your ass! There will always be stupid drivers out there.

 

Here's my last bike right before I sold it:

 

That's an interesting concept. I agree that it could be a great gateway drug. ;-)

I'm an underachiever. I didn't have a boat for most of this year, I live 8 minutes from work, and my wife works at the same location so we carpool. Combined we used about 300 gallons this year in vehicles and the boat. Living close to work really keeps the miles down considering it's where we go 70-80% of the time we go anywhere.

 

Next year I plan to fix that though and burn lots of gas on the lake. :-D

@BRY

 

The only way I was able to fit in them was by soaping the crap out of them. People kept telling me my feet should fall asleep after several passes so I assumed it was fine. I did loosen up the cross-straps and that seemed to help fit it a little easier.

 

However, you're absolutely right that sticking with the Wylie type binders is the most consistent advice I've been receiving. It is entirely likely that my problems have come from the binder being small. The most cohesive and persistent argument so far has been to go with the Wylie's, so I'm going to trust the experience of you guys rather than what is likely my own biased (and rather limited) experience. I'll get some proper fitting Wylie type binders to replace my current set. I'm also tempted to take up your offer for the Animals, but would it matter that I'm Right-Foot-Forward?

 

Thank you BRY, @ntx, @Ed Obermeier, and @Zman for helping to finally convince me.

@ntx,

 

Thank you for the advice. I think I've reached the same conclusion regarding the binder/ski combo and I'm just looking for separate deals. Also, I fully acknowledge that my skiing is definitely an issue. :-)

 

Practice and work on fundamentals will have far more of an effect on my skiing than a binder and new ski will. I'm not looking for equipment to improve my skiing, but rather to make it "safer" so I can better avoid injury when I do inevitably take a nasty spill. Part of the equation is equipment and the other is smart practice/improvement. This past year I kind of had the philosophy that I should never re-run a pass that I had been able to make twice in a row. The theory being that I would be forced to improve. The reality was that I ended up skiing at speeds I wasn't quite prepared for, taking lots of hard falls, and developing bad habits.

 

Next year I intent to spend more (or maybe all) time at speeds/lines which I can handle while I improve basic techniques. This was the approach I took at the end of this past season and it was much more fun and productive. In fact I made 50% of all of my improvement in the last few weeks of the season. I also hope to have equipment in place where I feel confident that I'm not as likely to incur the same types of injuries I did this year.

 

The Strada's seem like they could perform this function by allowing the foot to more easily slip out the front so long as the bungies aren't too tight. I'm having trouble trusting the Wylie type boots at the moment because that was the type of boot I had last season which seemed to strain my ankle every time I popped out during a fall (intended removal after skiing was nice and easy). I also find the supposed comfort of the Stradas appealing considering my feet turned to pins and needles after 10 minutes in the water last season. Are the Strada's more of a niche high performance boot and not suitable to someone of my skill level? What would be a potential drawbacks of the Strada for someone like me? I don't want to get one and then find out that I break my ankles when I make a turn because I can't handle the lateral stiffness.

@Churchy, thanks for the recommendation. The reflex's and similar boots do indeed seem to be quite safe. Unfortunately I was a bit turned off by the initial cost. Also, people manage to talk me into getting a new-to-me boot/ski combo and it's incredibly difficult to find those with the reflexs in my size. :-)

 

It's actually been quite difficult to find the right combination of sizes period on ski-it-again. Right now there's a good deal on a used Strada (binders and all), but the boots are a bit big (size 11 and I'm a size 9.5 shoe). I guess I just have to be patient. I think that despite what I said earlier, I managed to talk myself into a Strada, and right now I have a wanted add on ski-it-again. I value the opinion and input from those who recommended the traditional Wylie type binders, but I've had difficulty convincing myself given the trouble I've had with similar KD binders this year. Based on the input in this thread I'm fairly confident that the Strada will be safe so long as I don't overtighten the top bungie; I'll just have to get used to the extra vertical looseness (which others indicate is manageable).

It seems like the Wylie's, D3 Leverage, and Stradas get the most recommendations and mostly everyone also recommends I get a new ski, haha.

 

As for the binders, to summarize it seems as though there could be potential safety issues with the Stradas and other bungied hard-shell boots due to the potential for user error or other factors (@Steven Haines and @buski). However, the Stradas/Vectors in particular are recommended due to their comfort. Alternatively, the Wylie's and D3's have been recommended due to their simplicity and ease of use (@Ed Obermeier, @MS, @Estrom, and . Based on what I'm hearing so far I think the rubber binders are generally perceived as safer (and cheaper) while the hard-shells may be more comfortable and perform slightly better. I'm definitely leaning towards the Wylies and D3s in a medium binder size.

 

My plan now is to start hunting down some newer skis with binders on ski-it-again and to see if I can get a deal. Thank you everyone for your help!

@buski,

Haha, I don't know if I can get past that cost. I'm going for safety on a budget! I've actually seen a couple of other boots like HO EXO which seem to have the snow skiing type quick release, but I haven't heard of anyone riding them. I'm curious, but I assumed there might be some drawback which was keeping people off of them. Seems like an overall good idea to me. Also, why no longer trust the bungee?

 

@gregy

There's a reasonably priced Strada on ski-it-again. It's pretty much exactly what I would be looking for right now, but it looks well used. Given it's the off season I have plenty of time to wait for a deal to come along. I actually did ride the T-factors earlier this year when riding a friend's D3 fusion. They felt pretty good, but I couldn't quite figure out what to do with the damn strap, that thing drove me crazy! Though I'd get used to something like that I'm sure.

 

 

@ral,

 

I will strongly consider getting a newer used ski. There seem to be plenty of options on ski-it-again and it won't cost much more than just getting the binders.

 

I also realize that no binding is totally safe, and slalom in general isn't the safest of sports. I just want to minimize the probability of injury due to binder problems. I spent enough time hurt this year that it's made me a bit injury adverse, so I'll do everything I can to passively reduce the risk while continuing to ski. Going to a medium binder is probably the most important factor in my case, but I would also like to make an informed decision on the type of binder as well. :-)

@ral, @cam, and @oldjeep,

 

I wish I could blame the ski. The primary reason I didn't make my goals this year was downtime. I spent around 2 months on the dock due to a few injuries including whiplash, a torn quad (basketball), and the ankle extensor tendon. I just need lots more practice. :-)

 

I have considered that binders can cost just as much as a "new to me" ski. If I found the right deal I certainly wouldn't turn it down. However, if I end up getting a used ski I want to make sure it has a safe binder system first and foremost. While I know a new ski will have better performance characteristics, I think I'm currently still a bit weak in the fundamentals and won't be able to take full advantage of it. If I stick with my current ski it gives me something to look forward to later.

 

@gms_peter, @MS, @Steven Haines,

 

What are the pros and cons of the hardshell binders like the stradas/vapors compared to the more traditional binders like the Wylies/D3? I'm not entirely sure how the release mechanism is supposed to work on the hardshells. Is it like snow skiing or do you just slip out? Are the hardshells comfy?

@Waternut

 

I'm definitely cheap, but no so cheap that I won't go out and buy a decent camera if I think it's worth it. However, the buyer's remorse hits much harder when such things don't live up to expectations. I'll probably buy used as you recommend in order to offset some of the cost and make it easier to recoup them if expectations aren't met. Also, what type of pylon mount are you using? Seems like it performs really well with the JVC.

I've looked for this topic in the forums and couldn't find anything satisfactory, so I decided to make a new discussion. I apologize ahead of time if I overlooked anything.

 

I recently started skiing again this year after a 16-17 year break. I was 13 the last time I skied, so I didn't really have any equipment. I liberated what equipment I needed from my parents ski shed. This included a 1999 kd7000 with the original binders in size small. I'm a size 9.5-10 shoe and the binders will fit, but my feet feel like they're on fire after around 4 passes. I also managed to take a few nasty falls this year which did a number on the extensor tendon in my ankle and (along with some other related injuries) cut the season short. I feel that the binder may have been a contributory factor, so I'm looking for something safer.

 

Currently I want to keep the kd7000 and just replace the binders. I made a deal with myself at the beginning of this past season that I wouldn't get a new ski until I met some personal goals. However, given injuries and the resultant downtime I wasn't able to meet those goals this year, so by my own rules I'm stuck with the ski. Still, I don't think there's any reason to stick with binders which could contribute to further injuries and cut next season short again. Injuries really set me back this year and I don't want it to happen again. What binders would the community recommend for safety, performance, and comfort? Also, if there are any binder recommendations and considerations I'd love to hear them.

 

Safety is most important to me, but I would like to maintain as much performance/stability as possible. I'm currently skiing at 36 mph and hope to make it past 15' off and into some shorter lines next year.

That's a cool video! Is that Andy Mapple?

 

So it looks like there's not really too much motion on the RTP. The only thing I can see of any significance is he gets on his toes in the turn and stays flat during the pull. The only way it really makes sense that way is if the neutral axis is below the front foot and the moment on the ski is reducing the load on the back foot during the initiation of the turn. In any case, I retract my previous statement, it doesn't look like he's using the freedom of motion any more than someone with binders would.

 

Thanks for the video @MattP. I'd awesome it twice if I could. :-)

I've just noticed we're all talking about static positioning of the feet and the associated pros/cons. How about dynamic foot positioning such as afforded by a rear toe plate? I would argue that it potentially provides you with ability to maximize certain aspects of the ski's performance at different points of the course. I personally ski with double binders, but I've noticed many (though certainly not all) of the professionals do use rear toe plates.

 

Could it be that the ability to dynamically change rear-foot position can be exploited (and perhaps is currently being exploited) to enhance performance?

I got down to 120F several times this year, once with a drysuit, several times with a wetsuit, and once bare. The wetsuit definitely takes the bite out of the chill after a run through the course and was a great improvement, but the thought of initially hitting the water still saps a lot of the fun for me. If only drysuits were easier to wear! The one time I wore it I was nice and toasty. However, I almost went bald and nearly twisted an ankle getting the thing on and then I nearly choked to death as I skied. Wish I lived in Florida.

No way I'd be skiing right now without a ski club the Lake Norman area. It's a great way to meet like minded people with whom to ski. Just got married and bought a house, so a boat wasn't anywhere in that budget. Ski equipment wasn't really in the budget either, but luckily I was able to raid my parents ski shack for some old functional equipment! This past year I was happy just to know people who own boats with whom I could hitch a ride. It's so much easier to swing gas money instead of boat money when you're on a budget.

 

However, I got my parents old 1992 Nautique running at the end of this year, so hopefully next year I'll be able to return the favors and be one of the guys with a boat. I just hope it keeps running!

@MattP

 

My thought has always been that foot spacing/position is a series of compromises and the optimal position should vary person to person. Here's my opinion of the basic effects from a purely biomechanical perspective:

 

Feet Closer Together

1) Most neutral position for consistency between on and offside turns.

 

As Feet Become Wider Apart

1) Easier to stay stacked/balanced, make a strong turn, and maintain strong pull position on onside.

2) More difficult to get stacked, turn, and maintain position on offside. (think about hip rotation and flexibility if your feet are further apart, it's just more difficult to get into an offside pulling position)

3) Both sides allow you to place more leverage on the ski and generate a little more angle across course, so if you're able to overcome the difficulties on your offside it might be worth it for a little extra acceleration. However, to be able to do that without sacrificing the relative lean angle of your ski (which is by far more important for acceleration) is going to be pretty difficult without some insane flexibility.

 

For 99% of us my opinion is that it's probably best to keep our binders as close together as possible to remain as neutral as we can on the course.

 

There's also the option of moving the binders further forward or back on the ski. I think that biomechanical this is pretty benign, but it does significantly affect the dynamic performance of the ski in the water. Here's the summary of those thoughts:

 

Forward of Neutral Foot Position

1) It is going to be possible to get more ski in the water more easily on a given pull. This will definitely lead to more cross-course velocity assuming your able to generate the same lean angle on the ski (see next bullet).

2) Generating lean angle with the ski will be more difficult. Given the extra force from the boat coming on more quickly due to the increased ski in the water, you'll need to be in a good position coming out of the turn (see next bullet). So the transition to cross-course acceleration will be less forgiving.

3) Turns are going to be more difficult (and thus it's going to be more difficult to get into a good post-turn position) and take longer because you rely on the moment created by the water pressure to turn you across course. If you move further forward you drastically decrease this moment about the skis pivot point.

 

Back of Neutral Foot Position

1) You'll really be able to crack your turns here. You will be able to increase the turning moment on the ski here just as you decreased the turning moment when you moved forward on the ski. This will make turns happen quicker while maintaining velocity.

2) You will loose cross course velocity because you will not be able to get as much ski in the water. The equilibrium position across-course will require that you have more of the back of the ski in the water to maintain your buoyancy.

3) Generating cross-course angle will be easier due to the moment generated on the ski while you're pulling across course. However, I don't think it's likely that this will make up for the speed you lose to the reduced amount of ski in the water and tail drag.

 

Overall, given the tradeoffs it's apparent why many people ski in the neutral position. I would say that if you're someone who overcooks their turns, going forward on the ski might be beneficial. If you're someone who has difficulty making solid turns and hooking up afterwards, then you might benefit from moving back on the ski. There may be some optimal position here that we could discern from some comprehensive dynamic analysis, but it's probably easier to just experiment as preference here is going to vary widely from individual to individual. In any case, I think practice will likely have more of a lasting effect on our performance than moving the binders forward or back. :-)

It's great to see someone killing it like Nate and I hope he keeps at it, but I don't think any domination can last for too long (though Nate does have age on his side). Once everyone sees that its possible to perform consistently at such a level, it's only a matter of time until others figure something out or just train like hell and up their game.

 

In the mean time I certainly don't think it's boring to watch. There's no doubt that Nate's really really good, but he's still not a lock-in at every tournament. All it takes is one mistake or for someone else to have a good day. :-)

@Waternut,

Thanks for all the info and videos! It seems as though the JVC stabilization makes a ton of difference on their cameras. I'd been looking at image stabilization as a secondary requirement, but I guess it's much more important than I had thought. High quality video won't make much difference if the high freq. vibrations are making everything fuzzy.

 

@dave_n,

Unfortunately I don't have any Apple products. Apple bricked my 3GS after I installed an "unapproved" battery back in 2010 to replace one that would no longer hold any juice; this was after I'd been using said battery without issue for 2 months and they simply locked out the non-Apple serial number batteries with a firmware update. I have to admit their mobile video and camera capabilities are very impressive, but I'm still a bit peeved. However, it looks like the Coach's Eye app you mentioned is also available on Android. That would definitely be nice to get better immediate feedback on the boat. :-)

 

@gms_peter

I actually didn't notice your post about the HX-WA30 earlier. I wasn't even aware of that camera, but it definitely seems like it might be worth looking into. I has a good 1080i 60fps mode with a relatively good bitrate and image stabilization. It even has a 720p 120fps mode if I want to try that out as well. I want to find somewhere I can go into a store and play with one. I'm only concerned about the efficacy of the image stabilization. Based on Waternut's observations it looks like the performance may be high or miss for water skiing. Of course, that will probably be an issue with any camera I try. I don't like the idea of buying things, trying them, and then returning them, but that might be the only way to find a good camera for skiing. :-(

 

Thanks everyone so far for your input. This is very educational so far!

Seems as though people really like the US Gear handles and I do like the design. Who should I contact to alleviate any lead time concerns? Also, 12" or 13"? I can't decide. :-)

Kavan,

 

That is one of my concerns with RAW as well. The work flow (and storage if you get behind on your post-processing) really does start to become a bit of a pain, but sometimes it does help to bring out the detail and there are no compression artifacts. However, I really would rather have a simple integrated solution with decent image quality where I wouldn't have to worry so much about logistics and post-processing.

 

ShaneH,

 

How did the modified GoPro perform? Was vibration an issue due to the lack of image stabilization?

Recently I've been doing some research to replace the camera I've been using to film and analyze myself skiing this past year (mostly slalom). The quality just doesn't cut it an I need something better. Currently my research has been focused on the gopro hero3+.

 

I'm attracted by the ability of the camera to do 720p at 120fps, which will allow me to slow down the action during post processing. However, the camera has the significant drawback that it has an extremely wide field of view, which makes it more difficult to capture detail at a distance (say behind a ski boat). So in addition to purchasing the camera I will have to modify it to accept a new lens. I'm currently considering modifying it to accept c-mount lenses which will provide me with a variety of options to zoom in closer on the action. There is a kit which was recently developed which should provide this capability (http://www.back-bone.ca/).

 

However, I'm also concerned about the image quality on the hero3+ at 120fps. The current camera I've been using has an 8mbps data rate at 720p with 30fps (h.264 codec), and the image quality leaves something to be desired due to compression artifacts. I know the gopro is capable of 45mbps (also h.264 codec), but normalized to 30fps that is only 11.25mbps. So I'm not convinced that this is the way to go. However, the only alternative I've been able to come up with is using an industrial camera that would output raw sensor data, sans compression, to a laptop. Strangely, given that I've already got the laptop this would be a wash on cost, but it would be a pain to haul a laptop out to the lake and back, not to mention waterproofing concerns.

 

Can anyone here provide advice on building a camera system to film our skiing adventures? What types of camera and mount setups do you all use? What are some good camera options? Is slow-motion even beneficial? While I like the idea of being able to do slow-motion on the gopro, I'm not entirely convinced of the utility of doing so. So a reduced frame rate is definitely acceptable to me if I can get better image quality.

 

Any input is greatly appreciated!

I would likely get one of the US gear handles, but there's a current thread discussing long lead times. I'd rather just stock up and be ready for next season ahead of time rather than waiting patiently for the handle to arrive in April (maybe a bit of any exaggeration).

 

Since I'm getting a shock tube anyway to help dampen out vibrations at the camera mount, I think I'm going to go with a Masterline monster radius in either 12" or 13", but I haven't decided on the length yet.

Thanks for the advice and contact info. I'll try getting in contact with Thomas Wayne over the next few days after I decide on a handle. Any ideas what his lead times typically are? Granted I'm not really in any hurry at this time of year. :-)

Hello,

 

I'm new to the forums, but I had some quick questions that maybe you all could help answer. I just started skiing again (slalom mostly with a little trick) this past summer after a 16 year "break", so I'm gearing up with some basics. The old handles are holding up (but aren't necessarily confidence inspiring) and I slalomed on an old 67" kd7000, but I did end up getting a new rope during the season after the first one finally bit the dust. All in all, the equipment actually held up better than me. :-)

 

Currently I'm looking for a handle and handle guard/protector combination. However, I'm having trouble hunting down some solid information. I've found that jagersport sells them and so does someone named Thomas Wayne, but I can't seem to determine which handles these guards work with or even how to contact Thomas Wayne. I know that several people build their own, but I'd like to avoid that as I've got enough projects going on around the house at the moment. I'd like to just stick with something that I know works rather than iterating at the start of the season next year. I tried that this year with a pylon camera mount and though it now works very nicely I wish I had just bought something commercial-off-the-shelf (COTS). I lost several weeks of video and quality skiing time fine tuning it.

 

I'm not the greatest skier ever (I've yet to run 36 mph @ 15' off), but I'm hoping to improve and I'd like to get a nice handle that can run into shortline. I also don't yet know whether to get a 12" or 13" handle. I'm about 5'11" and 165-170lbs if that makes a difference.

 

Any advice is greatly appreciated and I'm glad to be a member of the vanilla forums!