jpwhit

I don't think this will be same as speed control. I think the majority of drivers didn't really enjoyed handling the throttle manually. So, when perfect pass came out, I think most people really wanted it. It was also the case where speed control isn't really that tough of a technical problem, so the solution wasn't terribly expensive to develop. I know people will say it was expensive, but I think compared to self-driving technology, it's going to seem cheap. I'm going to ignore the transition to Zero Off because that's an unfortunate situation where technology change and patents caused what is hopefully a "one of a kind" misstep in the transition. But I think factoring that in, skews the fundamental question did people really want speed control in boats. Which I think the majority did. 

Self-driving is a much harder problem to solve. Hence the ultimate solution will likely involve a lot of technology. Personally, I don't think you'll ever have self-driving technology for boats that approaches human drivers without leveraging computer vision technology just like self-driving cars. That will also make it possible to handle floating courses which I think will be necessary for a solution to be economically viable. I think it'll also be required to handle situations where something enters the course. Such as a kayak. I think without this, liability will be an issue. 

As others have already pointed out, the driving outside the course in many cases is just or more important than inside the course. And again, I think for a solution to be economically viable, that will have to be handled as well. 

I think it’s at best 50/50 that self-driving boat technology will ever become the norm. I think the solutions, that will be good enough to be worthwhile, will end up being too expensive to allow for widespread adoptions given the size of the boat market. Also keep in mind that speed control applied to the entire boat market. Wakeboarders needed speed control just as badly as slalom skier. This technology will only apply to an even smaller market of just 3-event boats.

I think if self-driving boat functionality does become the norm, it won't be developed by someone specifically for boating. Just like with engines, it'll likely come from the automotive industry. There simply isn't the revenue potential to support the R&D cost for truly ready for market solution to be developed natively. You'll need to use already developed technology re-purposed from the auto industry to make the economics work IMO. 

3 hours ago, buechsr said:

3 words:

Discount inboard marine (skidim.com).  I bet Vince can steer you right.  

Vince retired. 

What engine? PCM EX-330 5.7L.

Assuming it's the EX-330, as other have already said, change the distributor and rotor if it hasn't already been replaced in the last 100 hours. The Vortec 5.7L engines are notorious for hairline cracks in the distributor cap to cause issues. You won't be able to see the cracks with the naked eye. I would do this before spending any further time diagnosis the issue, because it's so common to cause issues like you describe and is a general maintenance item. It's also pretty common for the ears on the distributor that has the threads for the cap to break off. If that happens or has happened, you can order an inexpensive repair plate from Amazon. 

https://www.amazon.com/Dorman-90449-Distribution-Repair-Plate/dp/B00BQAJNWO/ref=sr_1_1?crid=C6DEDV3NICSZ&keywords=dorman+90449+vortec+distributor+repair+plate&qid=1695153236&sprefix=dorman+vorte%2Caps%2C142&sr=8-1

If fuel filters haven't been changed in last couple of years, then that's a good idea too. 

Boats engine management is based on the J1939 standard. Which is the same standard used for heavy equipment. An automotive ODB II reader won't be able to talk to the marine ECU at all. 

Sorry to hear about the stolen ski.

But it reminds me that I have a friend of friend that wants to get an adaptive waterski. Anyone have any pointers to where you can find used equipment? I have found https://liquidaccess.org/ via google for new equipment. But it's out of the price range they can afford. I realize it's probably really hard to find used equipment. 

I think the driver panicked because they were tearing up the course and slammed it in reverse.  

There are only a small number of standard speeds in tournament mode. So it would be easy to develop the software with key tuning parameters to be pre-defined in a table for those set speeds. And we do know there is different tuning for different boat / engine combinations baked into the Zero off software. In recreation mode, the number of speeds that can be selected is more on the order of 200 speeds. So it would be much more work to handle that with pre-set values. They would have to be calculated values. Therefore they would probably use an algorithm to calculate values for those speeds even if it weren't quite as precise. 

I'm not saying that's how it works. I think there is a better than not chance that it is exactly the same. My point is there are pretty plausible reasons where it would be cheaper to develop with a different approach to recreation mode. 

32 minutes ago, LeonL said:

Just doesn't make sense that there is a difference.

As a software developer, I can think of a lot of reasons the Tournament and Recreation mode could be different. And I've often wondered if they are different. The problem is that the only people that could give us a definitive answer are the software developers at eControls. But it's unlikely that they will answer the question. 

The only other way I can think to definitively answer the question would be to instrument the boat with another set of the same sensors that Zero Off is using. Which would be the same GPS pucks for speed, accelerometers, RPM sensor on the engine, and Throttle Position sensor data. Then collect data for both modes and compare it programmatically. That's an amount of work that doubt anyone will be willing to do to answer the question. 

Is it single or dual puck Zero Off. If it's dual puck, and the pucks don't have updated firmware. It will  randomly do that because of the GPS Week Rollover bugs. 

Which boat, engine, hours, and prop?

I'd email Radar and ask them.

I store the original carpet for resale, then I cover it with Deckadence and it looks great!

The slalom course at my lake house is very shallow at one end. So I damage props now and then. I’ve probably been through 4 props in the last 4 years. I’ve had 3 of those repaired by OJ for free when buying a new prop. They are never like new and I only use them while waiting for a new one to arrive. I sent one of the rebuilt one back to OJ to see if they could make it better. And it improved some, but still not like a new one. 

My theory is that the reworking process changes the tensile strength of the metal. Typically one blade takes the bulk of the damage, so gets the most rework. That causes that blade to flex differently under heavy load than the other blades. The reason I think it’s related to blade flex, is because the reworked prop feel the worst under heavy acceleration. My best reworked props feel fine running at speed without a skier. But they don’t feel good under load. 

My 2012 has a gland and packing. I've replaced it a couple of time. 

Can also confirm it's 1/4 packing, not 3/16.

On most boats, including my 2012 200, the depth and temp are both provided by an Airmar bi-ducer. I expect it's the same setup in a 2019. These bi-ducers aren't terribly robust and fail pretty often. Are you still getting a depth reading? I've seen them fail where you lose temp or depth readings. But it's most common to eventually lose both depth and temp readings. They connect directly to the boats CAN network. If you're getting either reading then that proves the wiring is all good and it's still talking to the LINC screen. If you've lost both, that either means the bi-ducer has completely failed, or you do have a wiring issue that's disconnected it from the Canbus. 

Not sure if this is the exact right one or not, I'd get the part number off of yours and call before ordering one. 

https://nautiqueparts.com/bi-ducer-depth-temp/

You can buy these directly from Airmar, but for MasterCraft I know they have MasterCraft specific part numbers and Airmar isn't allowed to give you a cross reference. I expect the same is likely true for Nautique as well. They are specific to the tilt angle of the hull where they are mounted.

You have to pull the impeller out to tell if there are any issues. Sometimes there is chunk missing out of the middle of one or more of the vanes. Also check to make sure the rubber isn't spinning on the hub. Sometime the bond between the brass hub and rubber part of the impeller breaks free. When that happens the impeller work somewhat but will slip enough to allow overheating in certain conditions. 

It's likely the conditions you were running the boat did make the issue show up, but it's not normal and it shouldn't have happened. I'd say something is definitely wrong, but not something that's so wrong it'll show up in other scenarios. But it would be best to find and fix the problem now, before it gets worse.

A likely culprit is a small air leak somewhere on the suctions side of the raw water system. Something letting air in between where the water enters the hull fitting and the intake side of the raw water pump. Most MasterCrafts have clear fittings on the connections to the strainer. Look at those carefully when it's operating in the kind of conditions where it overheated. You shouldn't see any consistent pattern of bubbles in either of the two clear elbows on the raw water strainer. If you do, then that's a clear indication of air leaking into the system, at least up until the point of the strainer. 

All of our mainlines have lead weights. They aren't floating up above 5 feet when just sitting there. I've checked for that. We've even had the same thing happen with stainless steel mainlines. And they certainly don't float. 

1 minute ago, MDB1056 said:

 Any course's mainline should be floating deep enough that it's well below a level a prop or any lower unit could reach. 

Yeah, you would think that's the case, but our experience is that unfortunately it's just not always the reality. Our mainline is 5 feet down and people still snag it with props on average once a season. It's amazing how deep a badly trimmed I/O can grab a mainline. We've literally been out at the course and watched it happen. Never happens when they cross perpendicular to the course, it's always when they are running down the center over the mainline. So, I think there's as aspect that the prop pulls the line up. Our course is only in 7 feet of water, so that may be a factor as well. 

We've also seen cases when they get a boat guide line in the prop and it winds the course up and then pulls the mainline and pole into the prop. 

I have a couple of courses on Kerr Lake, so not far from you. We have more than one because depending on water level and other factors we change location. I also have friends on Kerr with courses as well. There are at least 4 courses on Kerr that I know of. We all used to sink them, but since the pandemic we've all been leaving them up 24/7. We know the WRC officers on the lake and as long as we play nice with the fishermen and other users and they don't get complaints, they are happy to look the other way in regard to the letter of the rules. 

One word of caution on the stainless steel mainline, because I've used both on the lake, if someone snags the SS mainline and gets it caught in their prop, they won't be able to get it free without tools that people don't typically have on the boat. You often have to take the prop off to get it free because the thinner cable can go between the gap between the prop and the lower unit on an outboard or I/O. That's not good for us for two reasons. First, it can result in complaints which will upset our status quo with the WRC, seconds if someone's boat is captive and they can't get free, they will end up pulling up the entire course and taking the mainline. It's also more difficult to repair SS mainlines when they do get damaged. 

Our group has used insta-slalom courses, accu-float, and ez slalom courses. And while they all have their pro's and con's, they don't seem all that different. I've also used insta-slalom mainlines and just made my own PVC booms as well. For courses that you leave in the lake, it's pretty easy to just glue together PVC pipes to make the booms since they don't really need to come apart if you aren't taking the course in and out. I've even made my own mainlines and when I do that, I make them in symmetrical sections that are connected together by SS carabiners. That way everyone that uses the course keeps an extra mainline section in their boat. If the course gets cut, we just replace the cut section. But I will say it's more time consuming making your own parts than it seems like it would be. So I think it's often worth the money to buy pre-made mainlines. 

I also have friends with houses on Gaston. One really close friend's house is around Lizard Creek. I mention that because I've been teaching their young adult daughter and her boyfriend to ski the course and they've asked me if I knew of anyone on Gaston with a course. And I do know about the course right outside the Lizard Creek culvert that I think is maintained by the Pro Wakeboarder that lives around there. So that's probably best option for her and her boyfriend. 

PM me if y'all want to come over and ski sometimes. You wouldn't need to bring any boats over. 

The standard LCD panel in all the Zero Off head units that I've repaired had a semi-custom LCD assembly. It's pretty similar to a standard 128x64 LCD, but it has an FFC connector directly on the LCD that's not typical. To repair them, I ordered a high quality standard 128x64 assembly that is based on the same LCD controller and fabricated an adapter to go between the LCD and the FFC cable. I also had to add a level shifting circuit for the LCD contrast control to work correctly. 

Never use any kind of abrasive on a machined metal mating surface. Even with a razor blade or putty knife, you always want to keep a fairly shallow angle to the metal surface so you don't put any scratches in the surface. It's not typically difficult to clean off the surface with a razor blade based scraper. It's just easier with something sharp like a razor blade to get under any remaining gasket material. The only time it's difficult to clean a gasket surface is when the gasket was put on with some type of sealant. But that's typically never the case for exhaust system gaskets. 

I use a combination of a razor blade window scraper and a putty knife to clean off the matting surfaces. 

Even though it has a distributor, the timing is controlled completely electronically by the ECM using the crank and cam position sensors. Rotating the distributor doesn't change the timing, but it does change what they call Cam Retard Angle. You can only set Cam Retard Angle using Diacom. It basically setting the distributor position such that the rotor lines up with the right spark plug terminal in the distributor cap as close as it can over the typical range of the electronically adjusted timing. If it's off, you'll get the spark jumping to the wrong terminal within the distributor. 

I've repaired a few. PM me and give me a little more detail. What boat / year and if it's just fading or the display is completely dead. 

Good luck! I hope you can get it running for the rest of your vacation. I guess this is the first you're using it this year if it was winterized. 

19 hours ago, chrislandy said:

Well the head gasket looked ok on the odd side. 

Still thinking it is the head gasket though as it did overheat, just it's not done any real time since though so wasn't really expecting to see a full blow through. The coolant runs in the head were fully clogged with limescale though.

I didn't realize it had overheated. If that's the case, even if the head gasket is the cause, it'll be likely the heads and/or the block will need to be resurfaced. This will be even more true if it had TTY fasteners. That's because the advantage of TTY fasteners is that they have a bit of elasticity. That keeps the pressure on the head gasket more consistent with changes in temperature. Whereas when an engine overheats with non-TTY fasteners, such as studs, the expansion of the head and block at high temperature tends to crush the head gasket. Then when it cools back down, you no longer have good even pressure on the head gasket and leaks form. 

With TTY fasteners, that does't happen as much. So, when the head gasket leaks, it's more often due to some warpage of the mating surfaces. 

What caused the boat to overheat and how hot did it get?