Such_a_brett

3 hours ago, BGrow76 said:

Love your project! Will the slalom lake be up and running this summer?

Yes. Shooting for July.

This community has been very helpful so I wanted to drop a hot tip. Willow Lakes is now selling Phase 2 lots and taking early reservations for Phase 3 Slalom lots. And we've got a booth at the Utah Boat Show this weekend, offering up to $80K show discount!

Come see us!

http://Willowlakesutah.com

9 hours ago, DW said:

'as the snow finally melts' 😆 Brighton / Alta / Snowbird receive record snowfall this year and will probably be open through June at this rate and hit the 800" mark.  Snow and waterski in the same day!

@Such_a_brett - Nice, although I would alter the bridge structure at the turn island, make it like a walkover bridge at a race track, ie:  no obstruction in the water path.  Can one barefoot?  Do you plan on end lake stops to change rope length?  Can you tell me how much the cost would be to reserve and ski 200 sets / 100 days?  That would be my comparison to my current ski boat / set expense.  Do you have an average wind chart for the area?  Thx.

I don't barefoot, but you can if you want. You can lookup wind charts on Wind Finder... Logan-Cache Airport. We don't get much wind here. I'm a kiteboarder when there is too much wind for boating, and it is relatively rare that I have enough wind locally for kiteboarding. We have to go up into Idaho Snake River Basin to find wind. Normally Logan weather gets hot in June and we typically have a stretch of about 90 days with hot dry sunny weather without much measurable rain. It's the 2nd driest state in the nation. If there is any wind, average wind speed is about 5-6mph. Most windy days are mid-winter here. 

Boats will be high end fully equipped Malibu and/or Nautique less than a few years old and then rotated for new. Lot owners can expect to pay a rate around $2.00 per minute if the driver is provided. That would be about $5200/year for 200 sets that run 13 minutes each.

That is just you scheduling your sets, driver picks you up and drops you off. Everything is covered; fuel, cleaning, maintenance, depreciation, driver, etc. If you are experienced and wanna get certified as a driver to drive your own group, it'll be closer to $1.50/minute. That would be about $3,900 for 200 sets at 13 minutes each.

6 hours ago, Interjon said:

Skiing Alta Friday - Sunday this week.  Beautiful area, obviously.  Wish we could have something like this in Alabama.  Best of luck to you!

Long ski season this year. Fortunately in the valley the snow is almost gone now. 

Hey guys, just FYI... that bridge is just a place holder that the rendering company used for video production. Just a 3D model of a bridge that they had on file. The real one will be a stone bridge with a very large eliptical passage, higher off the water and no obstructions in the water. 

Sorry, I should've mentioned that. 

@rockdog I went back and forth on the turn islands. In the end it came down to the fact that I had to shorten the lake slightly below the optimal length of 2100ft. The offset turn islands will provide more setup time and allow you and the boat to enter straight into the course without having to straighten out. Also, the left island has a bridge out to it where there are jacuzzi tubs, BBQ, observation decks, etc. It's a nice amenity given the layout of the community. The right island has a fountain that keeps the lake full and oxygenated. 

After jumping through a bunch of hoops and everyone imaginable taking their pound of flesh, the Willow Lakes Ski Community in Logan Utah is set to break ground within the next couple weeks as the snow finally melts off the property. 

https://willowlakesutah.com/features

Phase 1 & 2 lots are now taking reservations and will be permit ready by fall of this year. First 10 lots in each phase get introductory pricing and then we have to start raising prices. 

Amazing location, extensive amenities, boats provided, and affordable prices. Your choice of lakefront or riverfront property. I appreciate all the input we received from BoS members. Feel free to ask any questions you may have. And reach out if you want a chance to get some turns in once the lakes are full.

@jpwhit you guys have MUCH more water than we do. Utah is the second driest state in the nation but is consistently in the top 2 or 3 states for boat sales. That tells you how crowded the public waterways are. I've often been on a local 180 acre reservoir when there are at least 25 other boats on the water with me, and a line of trucks with boats in tow down the street waiting for their turn to get to the ramp.

 

There are some very large lakes, but they are few. I would suggest the best skiing in the nation is morning at Lake Powell Utah though. 80-82 degree glass for miles on end.

@LoopSki I've had discussions with American Wave Machines. Their surf pools are fantastic but very expensive. Maybe if I do another lake development down near Silicon Slopes I'll spring for one. It needs a bigger market to draw from.

Yeah, the only big lake in Northern Utah consistently deeper than 25-30ft is Bear Lake but what comes with the deep water is lots of rough really cold conditions. I've spent a lot of time on Willard Bay which undulates between 15-22ft. There are the large reservoirs like Jordanelle which are deep in the center of the channel but shallow where you find the smooth water, and they get run so low during the summer that depth is only half the problem as you're fighting for space to have fun. Those who live in states with lakes and water everywhere don't really grasp how scarce and overcrowded it has gotten here. But the thing we have going for us is 3 straight months of pretty much nonstop sunshine from mid Jun to mid Sep.

I appreciate the feedback. I understand the relationship between depth and wake quality. Unfortunately, 25ft is completely unrealistic right now and would cost an extra $3MM. For me, it isn't just about achieving the max wake. It's about rider suitability. If 90% of riders can have a quality ride on it without feeling like they are limited, that is acceptable. I'm not aware of a single private lake in the region with 25ft+ consistent depth, and in fact most of our public waterways here don't have that either, especially late in the season.

Yeah it's a tradeoff. Digging too deep gets expensive and difficult really fast with a lake this large on flat land. 15ft is the generally accepted minimum to get good quality but not perfect wake. I might be able to push the centerline depth to 20ft though without much difficulty.

FYI... for those wondering if this concept appeals to people. We just floated out the final layout to our existing reservation list before we start our main marketing push. 47 of the lots are now spoken for. I expect that about 10 of them will drop out later as we hit the build ready phase. Part of the appeal is probably that we are still somewhat underpriced considering that other private lakes in our region are priced 2-3x higher (the most recent one actually 4x higher) than we are with MUCH higher HOA fees.

Slalom lake was going to be 6-7ft but we set it at 8ft to keep weed growth more manageable.

@jpwhit the wake lake is 15-17ft deep

@LoopSki thanks for the input. We completely understand that the boating crowd that likes the experience of owning a boat and going out on a public lake with the family for a day or a weekend won't really be into this concept. Unfortunately here in UT that experience is going downhill rapidly due to rapid population growth and overcrowding at a limited number of lakes and reservoirs. It's been even worse the last couple years as the drought has reduced the reservoirs to the point where they aren't usable by August. 30 high ballast boats on a little 180 acre reservoir isn't really all that fun. Beats you to death to ski it, wakeboard, and even inside the boat.

 

We will generally run 3 boats on the lakes most of the time (1 slalom, 2 wake) but will have 4 boats in the fleet. The 4th will be a crossover boat that can run reasonably for either ski or wake if one of the other boats goes down. But given the age of the boats we shouldn't have many problems. The 4th boat will also be available for members to rent and take offsite for those who like to take an occasional trip down to Powell. Given that it won't be used as heavily, I expect it won't be swapped out for new as often.

 

We're trying to build the app in a way that keeps things simple without having too many restrictions on members. It's a bummer to say everyone only get ## turns per season. But it's also a bummer if a handful of members take over and use up all the boat time because it's economically priced and they can afford it. So best to let pricing pressure ensure that people act reasonably. As much as people want to assume that 125 homes will overrun the lakes, that simply isn't the reality. I've monitored many private lakes in the region. A single 10acre slalom lake typically has 15-25 member households. If you pick 10 random times in summer to stop by and hang out for an hour, you might see a boat in the water 10% of the time. Life just gets in the way.

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For those wondering, there will.also.be ample non-motorized time. Both lakes have a buoyed off paddle/swim section, but additionally there will be scheduled paddle time on the full lakes allowing staff to clean and fuel the boats. Because the boats are run by the club it is easy for us to guarantee that some rogue boater isn't shooting down the lake during paddle time.

There will be a scheduling app for 15min turns (including pickup/drop off). There is a base rate per turn for boat club memberships (each lot owner's household is automatically a club member). The base rate pays for fuel, maintenance, driver, etc but isn't meant to turn a profit, so will be very reasonable. Also on the app for the big lake is the ability to schedule exclusive time or shared water. If you're kid is a wakeboard phenom and wants glass water to himself, there is a modest surcharge. OTOH, if your kid is just tubing with some friends or learning how to surf and don't care much about a bit of chop, the use fee is cheaper because the big lake is large enough for 2 boats with minor chop, 3 boats if everyone is tubing and actually wants more chop. Since these days the vast majority of riders are surfing and tubing, this dramatically increases the amount of turns open to schedule. Obviously, the slalom lake is one boat only and the boat model and setup will be conducive to skiing rather than wake sports.

 

Each household will be allowed a certain number of turns scheduled far in advance (60-120 days in advance) at the base rate. We'll adjust based on demand, but imagine something like 20 turns. You can still schedule more than that number well in advance but the rate starts to go up. Effectively, there isn't a limit on how much a person can schedule well in advance, but it will become exponentially expensive because they are essentially commandeering the boat availability at everyone else's disadvantage.

 

From 30-60 days in advance your allotment at the base rate increases. From 10-30 days it increases again. And within 10 days it is unlimited. Basically, everyone had ample opportunity to schedule their time by then. Also, anyone who wants can hang out at the pools and hot tubs on the dock waiting for no-shows and jump in to take the turn. No-shows will be partially charged, so anyone waiting to jump in can get a turn for a discount.

 

Similarly, within your allotment at the base rate, the app will start to increase the rate if there are more than 2 turns scheduled within a 2 hour window. It won't increase too much at first but will scale rapidly. This allows plenty of different members to get time even on the busy days.

 

So if you just like to get a couple turns in every couple days sometime within a 3 hour window and don't mind waiting to schedule 20-30 days out, you should get most or all of your time at the base rate. OTOH, if a person jumps on the app asap in Feb and wants to block out two boats 11am-5pm on the wake lake for a family reunion on July 4th, that is going to cost them thousands for the privilege.

 

The boats are provided by the club and will be rotated for new ones every couple years. Yes a driver will always be available. But we intend to allow a limited number of members to get certified as drivers to help cover the shoulder periods when there is low demand; before Apr 15th and after Oct 15th. Also early mornings. These individuals will need to be trained and insured like any other driver to mitigate club liability.

 

When you schedule your turn on the app, you'll indicate pickup spot, either nosing up to your backyard if you have a lake lot, or at the dock. You go take your turn(s) and then get dropped off. Club takes care of cleaning, fueling, and maintaining the boats.

 

The intent is no-hassle boating where you only pay for what you use. You don't need to buy a boat, a truck and trailer to pull it, and a garage to keep it in. It's surprisingly economical when everyone shares the cost. And I think we all enjoy being towed by a new prostar or wakesetter if it doesn't break the bank. For those who just want to live on the water but only rarely use the boats, we don't believe they should be paying a high HOA fee just to watch others boat all day.

 

Most places the HOA has no legal right to prevent long term renters (anything over 3 months). There are lots of places that restrict short term rentals. But in Utah, if you want waterfront, you don't have many choices.

https://willowlakesutah.com

 

The grey lots are reserved and there are actually 15 more reserved now that haven't made it to the map yet. Open to any feedback.

@escmanaze

 

The boats are pay-per-use as explained earlier in the thread. While technically the renters get access to the boats, they would still have to schedule them and the renter boat rates will be substantially higher than owners. Think more along the lines of what people pay on vacation. For example, if I go on vacation and rent a nice Malibu for half a day with my family, I'll be spending a couple thousand bucks all-in. Similarly, while a lake resident can spend the afternoon on the water for a couple hundred bucks, a renter would be multiples of that. We are using market forces to prevent renters from overrunning the place. It also is used to offset the cost for residents. Keeping use rates and HOA fees very low.

Website will be up in the next couple days. I'll post it here.

@escmanaze all of the phase 1 lots (29 in total) are VRBO friendly. The rest of the lots are restricted in the CCR. Any VRBO properties must run them through the property management company which will ensure that they are well maintained and professionally operated.

@LoopSki I agree with @escmanaze. Other than prime holidays, there should be plenty of boat times available.