DW

Ouch, best regards for a speedy and complete recovery.

Joe,

Can you elaborate on "way better" than the 9700?

I would certainly promote the beverage to whomever due to sponsorship of a water ski event. 

If the company is one of the larger breweries, you won't really need to impress anybody there with how loyal you present the audience to the product, they are familiar with Nascar and nobody has a better loyalty story than them.  Nascar loyalty is unreal compared to the rest, a particular US automotive company gets an 18% market share bump at the track compared to the US as a whole.  I would prabably go with the lifestyle approach and perhaps audience demographics. 

The real key is to find someone at the company that will be your champion, if you can find someone that has influence and is passionate about skiing, you will succeed.  Hoping to actually sell it purely on business objectives probably won't get very far.  Most sponsorships are cinched either that way (Target, DuPont, DeWalt, R&L Carriers) or because a competitor in also there (Lowes/HD; UPS/FedEx).  The CEO's wife at Target actually sold that deal by being given a tour of an Indy car hauler and really thought that was cool, and has been one of the longest running sponsorships.

Good luck, it would be great to see sponsor's (particularly non boat/ski ones) start to come back to the sport.  You might also research the company and see what they also own, that might be a real opportunity for funding (Phillip Morris > Miller).

 

PS:  to JTH's comment, I recall race teams filling particular brand name oil bottles with what the team really wanted to run for use at the track!

Auski:  How did you like your 9900 compared to the 9700?  The 9700 works well for me.  I am about your size, so it would be one of my choices.  If no takers on it, I'd be interested in it.

I have heard similar numbers, I also heard AM has pulled over 1000 #'s.  The key here is to separate the instantaneous G levels compared to a more sustained G level.  Rope hits are certainly not sustained, but I am sure pretty darn high!  Needless to say, shortline skiers are certainly pulling over a couple of G's in the course several times.  The other interesting element is the neck and head is removed from the load through rope as that is taken up down to the ski and the load around the buoy is vertical through the body.  To the original question, a slalom ski certainly takes a lot of abuse during it's lifetime and thus wearout / breakdown due to repeated loading is an issue.

Paul Tracy once recorded an Indy car crash at 44 G's w/o serious injury at Road America.

How many G's?  I found something called a lateral accel and lean calculator and it is for calculating data on motorcycles.  Probably not a bad estimate, so if you plug in 20 mph (average buoy rounding speed I guessed at) and a radius of 12' (the boat keeps moving as one rounds the buoy, so I guessed somewhere between 10-12') you come up with 2.23 g's and a lean anble of 65.8 degrees.  Does not sound too far off based on my experience in cars and on skis.  I think you get as much loading on a hard pull, say 600# rope tension for a 150 # skier = 4 g's but there is no radius on this, mainly longitudinal loading.  Feel free to grouse about my estimates, if you have better ones, great, I can make a more "accurate" calculation.

Start with Lake Pleasant, a public park and lake.  It is NW of Phoenix, just north of Sun City, west of I-17.  The ski lakes I know of are SE of town (San Tan Lake and one in Gilbert).  There is also a lake near Gila Bend, way west and south.  One thing is for sure, he can leave the dry suit behind, forget the rain goggles and expect 360 days of sunshine.

You might want to determine what type of fluid is coming out, a mineral oil or ATF based on the color of the current fluid in the unit (tan or red).  Many of the older boats did not use ATF.  There is a potential for synthetics to swell seals, that tended to happen with the earlier synthetics.

AGLS - why do you think the .08" fin helped?  Flex, thickness? ? ?

Part 1:  The watersports boat industry has gone through the same phase as the American car company and now is in the same situation demand wise.  Cheap credit allowed any buyer to buy or lease a Cadillac on a Chevy budget, so, guess what, that is what credit card and lease addicted American customers did.  The boat companies, like the car companies responded gleefully by supplying optioned out boats on credit to all the willing consumers  so Jr. could "show off" his blinged out boat in a continual one upmanship to his neighbor.  Optioned out vehicles are the best way to make a profit and if that is where the business is, it would be foolish for a company not to take advantage of it (One just better be ready for the shift).  Take a spin through any average "newish" neighborhood in any US suburb.  What do you see, well 2500+ square foot homes with at least 2 loaded high end SUV's sitting in the driveway.  Back up 25 years and the average house was 1500 sq ft and the car was a Chevy or Ford "wagon" and there was at least one less garage stall.

 Part 2:  Looking over some data, a mid 90's Malibu response was 2400 lbs (Sportser at 2200 lbs), powered by a cast iron 350 small block.  Today's Response LXi is 2800 lbs and is powered by an aluminum LS small block, has grown in girth and is loaded with all the bling and options that average joe buyer wants and can "afford" on his lease or credit card.  The MC line appears to be the same, the new 197 at 2800 lbs (with the aluminum GM LS small block) is the basic replacement for the early 90's basic 190 with a cast iron V8 at 2350 lbs.  Aluminum is roughly a 3/1 weight advantage to cast iron.  The US consumer basically demanded all the options that added lots of weight to the line up of boats.  Common parts and manufacturing spilled all that stuff over to the tournament ski boat, which the design tended to have to meet the demand of the more average US consumer, not the hard core addicts of this forum, who don't really want all that added stuff.  It would be interesting to take a survey to see how many 3-5 year old transitioned promo boats pull any skiers on a short line or send more time pulling a tube?

Part 3:  Looks to me as though the industry has to go through a transition and revert back to a more basic and affordable business model.

I certainly enjoy watching the best in the business, but realistically, I would rather ski than watch.  I actually would be thinking of taking the trip over to potentially watch a tournament at a new venue to kill two birds with one visit.

In my opinion, there are a few things that make watching a water ski tounament less attractive to say, a NASCAR race, college or pro football game, etc.  First, when attending a race, there is not only the race to enjoy, but a whole host of things to add to the experience such as souvenier trailers, a packed midway with a variety of entertainment, cars to go see and check out, perhaps a concert, a cool flyover, thus, making it not only a reason to go to see a race, but to get entertained with many other options.   Other sports do offer many of the same things, college football offers the connection to your alma mater and usually a pro game is reasonably close to home.

So, what does all that mean, perhaps to encourage spectators, the host needs to create alternate entertainment to keep the crowd busy, happy, etc.  The downside to all that, is those things all cost money which is certainly in short supply today.  I also think that water skiing is too much of a niche sport to cater to a large spectator crowd along with the fact that it really is not that exciting unless you are a hard core skier and really like to watch excellent athletes compete in a very repetitive sport.  I also think there is too much down time between runs and rounds to keep a crowd fully engaged.

I pulled out 300# out of my boat and noticed the improvement in the wake.  I can only imagine how good any of the newer crop of ski boats would be if they took 300+ lbs. out.  The wake control has certainly improved and is somewhat offset by the additional weight of these newer boats.

 Typical mid 90's ski boat ranged from 2200lbs (Gekko) to an average of 2400-2500 lbs, but the current crop seems to run about 4-500 lbs more.

The difference in cost between a single channel output unit and a multiple channel output unit is negligible for adding several of the mentioned channels.

Pretty exciting times in the automotive industry, certainly not for the faint of heart, particularly in the USA.  It is a bit unfortunate that there is not more available capital to allow more investment in new technologies in today's environment.  I would still not be totally sure that electric will necessarily be the next method of powering the car of the future, only time will tell.  It will certainly be interesting to see what the landscape looks like 10-15-20 years down the road.  If you think back to what your parents went through in terms of changes in their lives (automotive advancements, flight, computers, internet, war) one can only imagine what we will see as changes.

JTH,

Curious why you love the Infinity.  I took a ride behind one a long time ago with the factory guys and really liked it also (February in Daytona).

I would also argue that some drivers just can not feel the skier behind the boat, thus can not really react accordingly.  Some people have it and some don't, very much like operating a car.  Some drivers or particularly the better ones, just have a better feel for what is happening with the boat.  That is an additional factor to getting a good pull separate from the attitude.

I agree that every part of the pull makes a difference, particularly as this is such a mental game.  Every aspect including exactly where and how the driver sets the skier down, positions the boat, turns around, tightens the line, and takes off all affect ones pass, along with the pass itself.

Great idea.  IMO feel that direct ski comparisons can offer great value to the purchaser.  That does not mean that I think it is an easy task to define the metrics on how to do that and exactly what to compare. . . . .

I would certainly agree that every well executed pass owes a lot to the boat driver.  It is hard to get anybody excited to be a great boat driver, it is not where the glory or mostly the reward lies, plus it is all voluntary so someone has to really want to be a good driver.  You also have to consider, IMO, that since automobile driving skills are also not valued in this country, that perception will cross over to boat driving.  There is a surprisingly small percentage of people in this country that can operate an automobile within 50% of it's capability and that won't change with the entitlement mentality found here.  Boat driving is not looked at as a skill that needs to be learned and practiced then executed every pass pulled.  Certainly, there are a handful of people that take it seriously and always do their best to provide an excellent pull with them at the wheel.  I guess one thing "we" can all do is thank the driver every time a good pull is given, think about how many times you thank your driver for the pull.  There also tends to be little training offered or given from the driving side, it is usually, engage speed control and drive straight down the path!  Not a lot of time is spent teaching the subleties of how to keep the boat tracking in a straight line when the pull comes from side to side, similar to teaching skid control in an automoble (which is usually thought of as a result of a mistake and should not be done).   Also, we probably all spend a lot more time on the fin compared to the rudder as far as tuning to make the boat track / steer really well, etc.

I must say, I'll take a bad boat driver over a bad airline pilot any day!

PS:  good post, good topic to discuss.  Driving or operating any motorized vehicle is close to my heart and I take pride in doing it well (and as fast as possible).

I think the emotion displayed shows the value of a ski test!  To everybody that puts in the effort, keep it up, the ski test appears to be one of the most valuable and anticipated reports of the year.

Besides, if it were easy, anybody could do it.

Hmm, those Cali morals!!

Questions:

What attributes do you evaluate and rate as important on your ski or equipment choices?  JTH, you can use your IST category breakdown for the list of attributes.  How many ski's do you go through in a season?  Why do you use those bindings, what performance, fit, safety elements are important to you? 

What is your training regiment?  Who is your coach, what does he/she focus on to help you the most?  What is your diet, do you feel it is important to maximize your performance.  What non skiing training do you use?  Mental training program?  What is your approach to an event when the weather is bad, how much caution do you use?

How do you go about getting your sponsorship?  Do you have a media package?  What PR do you do?  As a "pro" water ski athlete, do you think about this aspect of the sport?  Do you feel it is important?

Tadd,

I very much appreciate the tests.  I had the opportunity to participate in 2007 and found it very worthwhile to learn a lot about several different ski options and really appreciated that opportunity.  In addition, in the years of not being a participant, the information certainly helped in a ski purchase decision.  I certainly look forward to reading about the test, particularly on the web site.  Not only that, but for the manufacturers gain, I felt the test itself made me think about buying a ski or upgrading my equipment, thus at least putting a potential ROI on the expenses of the test itself.

Roughly a decade ago I felt the same about the annual boat review in WSM.  When factual data and real comparisons were done and reported on, I felt the test offered enourmous value in assisting on a boat purchase.  The data directly influenced a boat purchase and I never regretted the decision I made.  Unfortunately the currrent version of the review does nothing to assist me in making a purchase of a new boat.  I only reference that in light of ski testing, a sales pitch for each ski offers no information but a comprehensive review can be of significant value.

Thanks for taking on the ski test, and of course thanks to JTH for starting the process and pulling off the first wave of the tests.  I hope the event keeps on going, particularly as new and different ski options keep coming from the manufacturers.  Great job to all.

The Lithium Ion batteries that will power the Chevy Volt have been sourced.  That should make an electric boat one step closer to reality as there will be an enourmous amount of work done to validate them for commerical vehicle use. 

MS,

If you can keep her from touching ground, your good.  Once you touch ground the owner has his say.  The ol' QM might just nick the edges!!!

On the AWSA approved boats the wording would have to ensure that as the years rolled on, the previously approved boats are grandfathered.  There are lots of examples of that particularly in property's and property designations which could be looked at for the boat application.

Another item to consider, in Michigan the water is state owned, the ripraian owner only has land rights.  So, if you restrict boats or whatever, that is fine, but if someone can gain access to the water w/o crossing any private property, all bet's are off.  So, if you want to chopper the Queen Mary and drop her in, you are golden.  You just can't drop anchor because then you can be legally kicked off.