CsSkis

Jody,

Don't give up on the "insert-less" Elite.  In my opinion, ski stiffness has almost nothing to do with the ability of a ski to finish the turn.  Fin and binding settings are what control tail slide.  (Ignoring the effects of concavity and bevels in the tail area, which can also be changed.  But, these changes are not for the "faint of heart".)  I would suggest trying MattP's settings  - i.e. a little more tip and a little less depth than the Andy Mapple baseline.

I have enclosed a picture of Chris Rossi (taken from RADARs 2009 portfolio), with a couple of added lines, to illustrate tail slide in a turn

Jody,

 Did you say that you have an Elite without inserts?  I wasn't aware that any were built that way.

With regard to your first question, Adam Cord told me how he measured torsional flex on the Elite, but I have to admit that I have forgotten the details.  (I vaguely recall that it was similar to the way longitudinal flex was measured.)  So, in regard to your second question, in the case of the Elite, yes, they measure the torsional flex and keep track of it.  With respect to the torsional flex changing over time - it might, depending on how the ski is manufactured.  But, the effect would be insignificant relative to any change in longitudinal flex.  (And, we have had plenty of discussion on that topic.)

A few comments -

The Quattro is currently only being produced in one size to support R&D.  As 41 off says, it is listed as a 66" in the O'Brien 2011 catalog.  The surface area (ski to water) of the 66" Quattro is slightly greater than the 67" Elite Alpha.

Adam has lent me a Quattro on a couple of more occasions, and I have also found the Quattro to be very predictable and very forgiving, and very easy to adapt to (binding and fin settings: 29.5", 6.845/2.495/0.70).  I am 190lbs (plus vest, wetsuit, etc.) and ski at 34mph.  However, before anyone gets the idea that the Quattro is a 34mph specific ski, I have heard that the O'Brien/Elite pro team members that have one are enjoying their time on it.  In my case, the Quattro is definitely the ski that I hope to riding on at the beginning of next season.

Video?

Shane,

 I don't recognize the skier (it doesn't look like Doug Ross, and I thought that he was the only one with access to a Quattro skiing in the BigDawg).  Please identify.

 Thanks

JP,

 Set the fin close to the factory settings and leave it alone until you stabilize on a solid technique and position on the ski. 

Boody,

I have certainly gone through a lot of different skis over the past few years (Of course, I think Horton has all of us beaten in that area!) and totally agree with you that different skis can help if you hit a plateau.  However, you would probably agree that Jipster43 is just trying to develop a stable technique and that introducing another variable might be more of a hindrance.  (Just wait until he starts to delve into the arcane "science" of fin tuning!)  My opinion is that, for now, he should stick with what he has, continue to get coaching and, whenever possible, get video of his skiing.  Oh, and keep reading and contributing to the different threads on Ball of Spray!

One more....

Hopefully this was covered by someone that you have already talked with:  In the past, there was some debate about which palm should be up and which should be down, and whether it mattered at all.  I used to be among those that felt that it didn't matter (back to my earlier comment about being comfortable with your "technique").  I am now a convert in believing that it can make a huge difference (biomechanically). 

 Right foot forward=left palm up, and vice-versa.

I would say that if the Elite is set up properly, and I'm sure Mr Brown and Mr Fisher would have looked at that, and if you are not letting yourself break at the waist (i.e. you are keeping the hips up), then the Elite will help you progress as rapidly as any other ski.  However, some of the skis you have mentioned have more surface area than an equivalent length Elite, so they are more tolerant of "inappropriate" body positioning.  Keep the load (body weight combined with the pull from the boat) centered over your feet, and the Elite will do anything you ask of it.

Coming from another ex-competitive snow skier, the two biggest problems in transitioning between the two sports is keeping the hips up to the handle (with lots of bent knee to compensate) rather than a slightly bent waist, and realizing that your shoulders don't always need to be squared-off to the "fall line" (i.e. the boat). 

Make sure that you check other threads for all the theories on counter-rotation, and particularly, the thread(s) on handle control.  It may be premature at this stage in your development, but it is easier to break a (muscle memory) habit before it gets too ingrained, then to wait until you are so comfortable with your "technique" that it keeps you from progressing. 

Adam was kind enough to let me a take a set on his own, and first, Quattro.  As has been said, further tuning of the ski is ongoing, so my impressions are only an indication of the potential of the final production ski.  Drew Ross is on the second, and slightly revised, Quattro, and he is feeding his impressions back to Adam - but, so far, so good!

 My impressions -

(A) Very predictable and very tolerant of skier positioning.

(B) If you want, you can "lean" on the tip and it will stay with you all the way through the turn.  (And, it will be an amazing turn!  The ski comes around very cleanly.)

©Â No sensation of speed (everything seems to move in slow motion).  It seem to carry the energy you put into it all the way cross-course and through the turn, and back again.  Sorry, no radical accel-decel for those used to a Monza!

(D) Very low drag feel.  Again, the energy you put in comes right back in getting through the course - not "dragging" you behind the boat.

(E) Oh, and the ski looks really incredible!

I'm not an extremely proficient skier, just an enthusiastic one.  (Old guy, 34mph, struggling for consistency at 32off)

Horton says: "Adam and Andy are not on the tile bottom bandwagon".

 What he didn't say: The picture was taken of the bottom of the new ski!

 just kidding.

Those of you having trouble keeping the fin in the Elite fin block from moving, try this before you give up on it:  When you adjust the fin, make sure that you slightly loosen the screws that hold the fin block to the ski (one side only).  After adjusting the fin and tightening the "set" screws, re-tighten the fin block screws.  If you don't follow this process, it is possible that the fin block halves are being prevented from clamping tightly to the fin - end result, shifting fin settings.

My wife and I are contemplating a move from Washington State, and are considering the area near Jacksonville, Florida (and south along the coast).  Big (and possibly dumb) question...  Are there any good waterski lakes and/or clubs (with access to a course) near Jacksonville?

Thanks for any info.

Picture from Cale's website illustrating what Adam said.

Does anyone have a recommended fin setting starting point for a 67" KD7000?

Thanks!

Note: I posted this same question on the "Water Ski Forum"

John H. - Any updates on your feelings about the MPD and how it compares to the SS?