Point of hook up for shortline? Bruce Butterfield, John Miller, David Nelson

[skicoug]

Maybe someone can just direct me to another great thread about theories about the point of hooking up. From the discussing about edge change.....and casting out or carry out, I was very impressed with Bruce Butterfields, John Miller's, and David Nelson's and I think Thomas Wayne had a great piece as well.

So it seems to me that the latest theories suggest that we should try and finish the turn by carrying as much speed through the finish of the turn and try to hook up and load as late as possible.  I think Chris Rossi even said that he was trying to refine his skiing to the point that he would never hookup.

Maybe I am conceptulizing (sp?) this wrong but it seems that the acceleration phase starts with hooking up. So if we are trying to hookup later and edge change earlier than there is not much distance to accelerate?

So is it more correct to think that we need to apex wide and early of the ball and finish the turn with angle and speed......but it is OK to hook up near the buoy?

 Looking forward to your ideas. 

 

 

[Old MS Accout]

Never load the line. Consistant speed with small variations faster or slower only. Keep your minimum speed that you need to run the pass to a maximum. Keep your maximum speed that you need to run the pass to a minimum. That fluxuation in speed will then be very small at all points from ball to ball.   

[Horton]

We are wondering in to a perception vs reality thing here.

 

In reality there has to be a hook up of some sort. By attempting to not hook up or load you will delay the hook up and minimize over load.

 

I think it was Dave Benzel who first suggested to me that for any boat speed and rope length there is a finite distance you can have an efficient load. If that is true, then I want to position my phase of efficient load so it ends right at the centerline.

 

If I crank off a 90 degree turn and hook up at the ball line (I do) my efficient load will happen way too soon. If I carry speed around the ball and back toward the wakes I can get the load closer to where I really want it.

 

I am currently working on carving in to the gates will my left hand off the handle as long as I can. This delays my load until I am close to the wakes and sets my up to arc around one and help me delay hookup out of on.

[Horton]

Additionally the less acceleration and deceleration you to the better…..

[Thomas Wayne]

The first time you don't feel any load on the line until you're hitting the foam near the wake you'll probably freak a little.  You'll be expecting some kind of slack "hit" that doesn't happen, you won't feel much load to speak of and you'll be amazed by a sight you may not have seen before - the next ball way out ahead of you.  If you can consistently repeat the process you'll get to see the 6-ball from farther away than you ever have in your life.

Then you'll immediately and unconsciously morph your old techniques in with a pale version of what you just did, producing a highly diluted version, and spend the rest of the summer trying to recapture that incredible first, perfect experience.  At least, that's how it was for me - lol

TW 

[Old MS Accout]

Additionally the less acceleration and deceleration you to the better…..

Thats my maximum/minimum point.  

[skicoug]

One way to take the perception out of the equation would be to use a strain gauge. I like the notion of any given speed/length has a finite length of load or would it also be fair to call this the acceleration phase? It appears to me....as so many things inthis sport.....that there is a reverse logic that happens as the rope shortens. It seems that the acceleration phase becomes shorter as the line gets shorter.........is that true and how does that make sense?

Also, aside from any one persons perception as to what they feel is happening.......there is no way I can be convinced that most of the pros....at 38 and beyond are not hooking up and loading a significant amount.

These threads are great.......as I am hurt and winter is looming.....I need to get my visual as good as possible so that the 10,000 mental sets I take this winter are on the right track.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

Rather than think of "hookup" as a point, I think its better to try be smooth and seamless between the turn and pull (sorry, old term, but still valid). You want to carry speed through the turn, ski into the handle with the handle and free hand joining at the hip, and the pull starting gradually, but strong. There should always be some tension on the line - if you get any slack, try to be smoother.

The thing we try to avoid is any stall, or jerk caused by turning too hard and loosing body position. If the transition between turn and lean is smooth you will be much farther ahead than you would be with a massive turn, stall, massive pull.

You still have to load hard to run shortline. The goal is to make the load and unload as smooth as possible.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

I've been re-watching the video of Wim Decree that Schnitz posted awhile back. The thing that stands out most to me is that his upper body is more still than just about any other skier I've seen. It gets back to the snow skier analogy of the shoulders always facing downhill and the hips doing the turning. Wim's shoulders are nearly downcourse all the time. Yes, MS, he is LOADING the rope, but the hookups are smooth.

When I focus on shoulders downcourse, I find that my turns are smoother, most of the work is done with the hips, and its easier to carry the handle longer. Now to just get that engrained.......

[Deke]

Bruce,

The videos of Karina last week show an incredibly still upper body as well.  Every turn of every line length looks the same.  Even when she is just slightly off and her tip rises, nothing in the upper body changes.  Whatever correction is made does not effect her center or upper body.  Like Wim, it all looks so easy and understated.

Deke 

[Andre]

...keeping the shoulders facing downcourse all the time.

What about counter rotation that i keep reading about?

I can really relate to TW's post

 

 

[matthewbrown]

Training with arguably two of the most technically sound skiers in the world(Terry and Marcus) I can tell you they make it look simple.  But there is a reason for this.  They actually keep it simple.  They only try to do two things.  Stay centered on the ski and always go in the direction of the line.  It doesn't matter how smooth your turn is or how late you wait to fill the load, if you are not centered on your ski you will have at least some problems. 99% of skiers are too far back on their ski when the load comes, consequently at the second wake and in the preturn they get pulled to the inside and are no longer going in the original direction of the line.  Perpendicular speed and balance is then sacrificed with parallel speed and unbalance.  Even if they are centered on the ski but load too hard through the second wake, they get pried from the handle and once again are forced in a different direction then the natural arc of the line.  It’s fine to  say… well, you let the handle out too soon, or you were turning too hard, or were rotating your shoulders at the finish of the turn.  These are all great insights but why are you doing those things??  It comes down to one of two things...you were either behind the ski with your center of mass or you were loaded too hard away from the boat.  I really think if people become more aware of their body realationship and less aware of the trying to do all the little movements it can make a big difference.  I don’t presume to know anymore then the rest of you I’m sure you all understand all of this but I think by simplifying down to two basics can make it a lot easier on your body and mind.Matt

[9400]

Matt, thanks for your input, i like simple, it goes with my simple mind. Could you expand on "always go in the direction of the line" and how it relates at 28off vs 38off, i think i know what you're saying but i want to get it in your words if i could to make sure, also do you think of "release load or built up pressure" at the centerline or second wake as in relaxing the legs to allow the ski to swing out? i'm not getting that transition right for the smooth ride to the end of the line. Thanks again for your input!

[Boody]

Matt, you hit the nail on the head, that is the primary concept I have been working on since I saw Bruce Butterfield post something similar on this forum.  It really works and greatly increases consistency.  I just think, "Center mass leads" and good things happen.